8thdaypriest Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 When a person dies he/she ceases to exist. He/she returns to dust. That person, from Adam, is gone forever. In the resurrection they are re-created, not like Adam before the fall, but as the angels. Your argument is with the Bible, not me. The Bible does NOT say that humans will be re-created WITH WINGS. Quote 8thdaypriest
Robert Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Ez 10:5 "the wings of the cherubim" Is 6:2 "Above him (God) were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying." Matt 22:30 "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." Quote
Robert Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Ellen White, in vision, saw the following: "I saw the little ones climb, or, if they chose, use their little wings and fly, to the top of the mountains and pluck the never-fading flowers." [Early Writings] Quote
Robert Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Ez 10:5 "the wings of the cherubim" Is 6:2 "Above him (God) were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying." Matt 22:30 "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." "Like the angles" NIV "are as the angels" KJV 1] Angels do not procreate. 2] Therefore angels do not marry. 3] Hence they are sexless. 4] Angels also have wings. 5] And lastly, the Bible states that "we shall be changed" as become "as the angels" Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert Quote
8thdaypriest Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Ellen White, in vision, saw the following: "I saw the little ones climb, or, if they chose, use their little wings and fly, to the top of the mountains and pluck the never-fading flowers." [Early Writings] I am very aware of what she wrote. I believe she was influenced by the culture of her day, which displayed pictures of little cherubs with wings. I have grave doubts concerning her writings, and do not believe we should refer to her to settle questions of doctrine. Quote 8thdaypriest
Robert Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) I am very aware of what she wrote. I believe she was influenced by the culture of her day, which displayed pictures of little cherubs with wings. I have grave doubts concerning her writings, and do not believe we should refer to her to settle questions of doctrine. She is not infallible, but this was a vision. Either it was a dream or it was of God. I believe the latter because the Bible strongly suggests we will be "as the angels". We "will be changed". We will no longer be "flesh & blood". So we will not be human, but something different. Yes, we will be able to recognize each other. Keep in mind that God is spirit and that Adam was made in the image of God. Outwardly, in form, he was in God's image. Angels look human, but they aren't flesh & blood. God and the angels are spirit being, whatever that means... Spirit beings can go through walls (Jesus after the resurrection). They are not subject to the same laws that "flesh & blood" are subject to. Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert Quote
8thdaypriest Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Seraphs have wings, and cherubim have wings. They are a different species from angels. The angel messengers are NOT described as having wings, when they appeared to men. They looked like men. I John 3:2 says that we will be "like Him" (like Christ). Christ did not have wings when he appeared to men after His resurrection. Quote 8thdaypriest
Robert Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Seraphs have wings, and cherubim have wings. They are a different species from angels. The angel messengers are NOT described as having wings, when they appeared to men. They looked like men. I John 3:2 says that we will be "like Him" (like Christ). Christ did not have wings when he appeared to men after His resurrection. Like Him in righteousness....No longer will we have this bent-to-self. We will perfectly reflect agape love. We will also be immortal. Keep in mind Christ calls us into existence, not by reassembling our particles from the dust of the ground, but by recreating us into something more than we are now. "Behold all things have become new" through Christ..... Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert Quote
Samie Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I choose to believe Jesus and agree to what He said that there will be no marriages after the resurrection: NKJ Mark 12: 24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. And if no marriages, obviously, no procreation as well. Quote
CoAspen Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, When....is the emphasis word is this sentence, the immediate point in time. Says nothing about new earth, heaven or anything at a later point in time. If everyone is raised as angels, then why distinctions about reuniting families, etc? Quote
Robert Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, When....is the emphasis word is this sentence, the immediate point in time. Says nothing about new earth, heaven or anything at a later point in time. If everyone is raised as angels, then why distinctions about reuniting families, etc? We will not marry because we will not be able to procreate. Families are still important, right??? Quote
Samie Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, When....is the emphasis word is this sentence, the immediate point in time. Says nothing about new earth, heaven or anything at a later point in time. Looks like, in context, it goes far beyond the time of resurrection. NKJ Mark 12: 19 "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man's brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 "Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 "And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 "So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 "Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife." 24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Quote
CoAspen Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Again..."when they rise"...immediate point in time. Nothing about future state of the human. Remember, EGW talks about families being reunited. Quote
CoAspen Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 I don't know the answer to the question, nor am I persuaded by the texts and personal interpretations of such. I prefer to take the Bible as a whole, not individual parts, for a complete picture. As I have said previously, I have listen to sermons on both sides of the issue, using the same texts and original languages. I am of the opinion 'wait and see'. I have my own ideas and beliefs but not about to pronounce....you will or you won't!! Unequivocal evidence not available!!! Quote
emy_nottheaward Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 Wow! Thank you all! I actually completely spaced this in the midst of school finals. Came back and there are tons of replies! Sifting through them now. Interesting thoughts. Some new ideas. I shall consider them as I read in prayer and search the scriptures. Quote
emy_nottheaward Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 So the question I have then is...what were Adam and Eve created as before the fall? Were humans ever intended to be raised as new creations? Because it was never in God's original design (I think...) to have a need for a resurrection or a re-creation. So if things will be reinstituted as they were originally, have we changed then as beings? I think I may be talking myself in circles at this point. Quote
emy_nottheaward Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 Okay, so it seems like this has turned into a contemplation on what will happen to us as the state of our beings on the new earth? If everything will be made new, but everything will go back as to what God originally created it as.. what are we left with? Hmmm. It seems odd to be that God would focus on the idea of family and marriage (the church being the bride, Jesus' first miracle at a wedding, etc.) yet not have any of that on the new earth..? Stan, rudywoofs (Pam) and CoAspen 3 Quote
brotherly love Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Okay, so it seems like this has turned into a contemplation on what will happen to us as the state of our beings on the new earth? If everything will be made new, but everything will go back as to what God originally created it as.. what are we left with? Hmmm. It seems odd to be that God would focus on the idea of family and marriage (the church being the bride, Jesus' first miracle at a wedding, etc.) yet not have any of that on the new earth..? At this point of time we can only relate to what we know. For some, there is nothing better than peanut butter pie-so we hope that there will be peanut butter pie in a new heaven and new Earth. if we apply this with marriage and sexuality, right now there is no greater gift than our sexuality, but what we should hope for is a greater sexuality- a redeemed sexuality greater than we experience right now...even if there is no actual sex or babies. Quote
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