Stan Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) So then the question begs to be answered, what would he do to compensate the families of the 160,000 civilians killed by the US troops? No wonder so many of America's Finest are suffering from PTSD. Edited May 14, 2015 by Stan Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Ron Lambert Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Jeb Bush would have left in power the blood-thirsty dictator Saddam Hussein who used nerve gas against the Kurds, and his two psychopathic sons, who terrorized Iraq? Taking down that monstrous regime should have been done during the first gulf war, as soon as Kuwait was liberated. Bush #1 should have sent the tanks on to Baghdad then. But after ten years of Saddam's regime's continual flouting of the no-fly zones and violations of other conditions of the cease-fire, the situation still demanded military intervention. Many of America's allies agreed. We did not invade Iraq by ourselves. And by the way, it is now established fact, no longer deniable, that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. All those who called Bush #2 a liar owe him an apology. B/W Photodude 1 Quote
Stan Posted May 14, 2015 Author Posted May 14, 2015 Did Iraq ever attack the US? Was the gas that was provided by the US when they were friendly more atrocious then say using Agent Orange in Viet Nam? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Ron Lambert Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 So, you wish to hide behind the FICTION of nationhood as an excuse to duck our moral obligation to aid our fellow human beings when they are being monstrously violated by the tens of thousands by psychopathic, sociopathic tyrants? What will you say to God when He reminds you that "...just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me."? (Matt. 25:45) Do you think God will judge you worthy of Heaven, if you do not see an obligation to deliver people from the Hell they are suffering in this world? Should we dismantle the Red Cross, tell ADRA not to go out any more, no longer aid victims of shipwreck on the high seas, or give aid out of our abundance to those nations that still suffer in poverty and starvation? Should we care that anyone else in the world starves, as long as we are well fed? This is the kind of selfish thinking for which I always condemned the antiwar sentiment of the Vietnam demonstrators, and all antiwar activists since then. They have no morality on their side at all. NONE! They never did. What they thought was morality was really just the very cheapest form of self-righteousness. Had such "moralists" (then called "appeasers") prevailed, Nazi Germany would now rule the world, and the Jewish race would be extinct. B/W Photodude 1 Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted May 15, 2015 Moderators Posted May 15, 2015 Evidence please on the WMD claims. I have never heard any. Quote Truth is important
B/W Photodude Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Apparently, memories are short when considering politically charged issues. An overwhelming majority of congress voted for going to war with Iraq. One person, curiously, did not and that being the current POTUS. Given his current apparent sentiments regarding Islam, the rationale for his decision is becoming clearer. Hussien's behavior (the Iraqi one!) led many to believe he had weapons of mass destruction. Intelligence was faulty, for sure, but there are even political reasons for that. However, the case was made that there were WMDs, congress voted for the war, the UN went along with it, and the war was a multinational effort. Of course, when WMDs were not immediately found, it was all Bushes fault. So, where did the WMDs go? We forget that the Israelis fixed the nuclear part of the Iraqi WMD program. And people seem to have short memories of the thousands of Kurds gassed to death by the Iraqis. It is thought by some that the WMDs were removed from Iraq to Syria before the invasion occurred. Fortunately, for the Syrians, since Hussein was so completely routed in the war, they did not need to return these WMDs! So, did the Syrians have their own WMD program or are they gassing their people with the WMDs gifted to them by Hussein before the war? All that aside, no one ever gives Bush credit for the vast improvement in the lives of women in Afghanistan and Iraq. Women/girls in Afghanistan can now go to school. They are no longer executed in public at stadium events for offending Taliban sensibilities (if such a thing exists!). I recommend a movie for everyone which will show you some of what life for women in the Middle East is like and it is called "The Stoning of Soraiya." And to have the sons of Hussein removed from the earth was a great blessing for the little girls of Iraq. I will assume we all are aware of Uday's fetish for little girls and how he acquired them. And for all the morality the Muslims claim, it is said that a boy growing up in Afghanistan has to be especially ugly to make it to adulthood without being homosexually raped. Jeb Bushes arguments showed me one more reason why I would probably choke to have to pull the lever for him. Fortunately, he has a favorability rating less than Hillary's even though I tend to believe establishment Republicans are in the tank for him this election cycle. Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
B/W Photodude Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Boy, good thing the chlorine gas reported to being used now is not on that prohibited list of chemical warfare agents. Never mind it will kill you just as dead. But note the POTUS remarks that Syria at one time had a significant amount of chemical warfare weapons. Wonder where they got them: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/15/obama-not-drawing-red-line-with-assad-amid-new-allegations-chemical-weapons-use/ Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
Moderators Bravus Posted May 16, 2015 Moderators Posted May 16, 2015 Right, so not so much evidence as conjecture. I know it was not you who made the claim, B/W, and I'm still waiting on evidence from the guy who did, but this is what he said: "And by the way, it is now established fact, no longer deniable, that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. All those who called Bush #2 a liar owe him an apology." Evidence please. Quote Truth is important
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 16, 2015 Members Posted May 16, 2015 Right, so not so much evidence as conjecture. I know it was not you who made the claim, B/W, and I'm still waiting on evidence from the guy who did, but this is what he said: "And by the way, it is now established fact, no longer deniable, that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. All those who called Bush #2 a liar owe him an apology." Evidence please. http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=15918 (gotta defend my cuz) Naomi 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators Bravus Posted May 17, 2015 Moderators Posted May 17, 2015 Fair enough: there were some unused and largely unusable 30 year old munitions rusting in forgotten warehouses. Sufficient real threat to require in invasion that cost 5000 American lives and well over 100,000 Iraqi lives and a trillion dollars? It's true and remains so that WMD were a pretext for the invasion, which was conducted for other reasons. Quote Truth is important
Moderators Bravus Posted May 17, 2015 Moderators Posted May 17, 2015 BTW, please remind me which government was selling munitions to Iraq in the 1980s, and under which president? Quote Truth is important
B/W Photodude Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 Fair enough: there were some unused and largely unusable 30 year old munitions rusting in forgotten warehouses. Sufficient real threat to require in invasion that cost 5000 American lives and well over 100,000 Iraqi lives and a trillion dollars? Your hindsight is remarkable! Where were you when the decision to go to war was being made. A lot of nations would have benefited if they had just known that there was "only some unusable munitions" laying around! Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
Moderators Bravus Posted May 17, 2015 Moderators Posted May 17, 2015 Not hindsight, no. Just sight: I said it at the time. I said it at the time *here* on this forum. It was always a transparent falsehood. Quote Truth is important
B/W Photodude Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 Not hindsight, no. Just sight: I said it at the time. I said it at the time *here* on this forum. It was always a transparent falsehood. Well, they must have missed your posting over at the UN. The nations of the world had Hussein's history, his goals, his intents, and intelligence as good as it was (and there are political reasons why it wasn't better) to make the decision to go to war. I know the Kurdish people aren't very important to many and gassing them with chemical weapons by the thousands wasn't that important, the repeated threats against other nations, actually invading another nation requiring a military action to remove him from that country, and his persistent refusal to cooperate with inspections to assure he wasn't doing what he wasn't supposed to be doing, yeah, your right. We should have just left him alone. Kinda like what we are currently working to do with Iran. And just throw the Americans in the Iranian prisons under the bus, because "what difference does it make" anyway! Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
Moderators Bravus Posted May 17, 2015 Moderators Posted May 17, 2015 Lots of stuff there I didn't say and don't think. Don't let me get in the way of your rant, though. The truth matters. That's what I'm talking about. Quote Truth is important
Stan Posted May 18, 2015 Author Posted May 18, 2015 Many are just so thankful, that the change of leadership in Iraq, so that it is the ever peaceful country it is today. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085486/ISIS-claim-taken-control-Iraqi-city-Ramadi-security-forces-flee-following-series-suicide-car-bombings.html Naomi 1 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
bonnie Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Not hindsight, no. Just sight: I said it at the time. I said it at the time *here* on this forum. It was always a transparent falsehood. Bill Clinton: Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD … www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs By About · 5 min · 48,753 views · Added Feb 15, 2008 February 17, 1998 - Speech given to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff concerning the need to deny Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. On This Day in History: "Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD Program" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2675471/posts Feb 17, 2011 · On This Day in History: "Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD ... Bill Clinton: Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD ... FreeRepublic.com is powered by software … Bill Clinton Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD's - … www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_ocw2VP5I By George Washington · 5 min · 630 views · Added Sep 20, 2012 Bill Clinton speech before he attacked Iraq citing CLEAR evidence of Saddam HusseinWMD programs. Al Gore: No Doubt Saddam's Weapons Are … 2:33 www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBl0fnMUVc By About · 17,842 views · Added Feb 16, 2008 February 17, 1998 Al Gore: No Doubt Saddam's Weapons Are Grave Threat … www.dailymotion.com/video/x2o41vr Apr 26, 2015 · Create an account or sign in for a tailor-made video experience. Sign Up / Sign In. Videos you might like Why did we go into Iraq? | Yahoo Answers https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090306092736AAaJ1gh Resolved · 4 posts · 3 total answers · Published Mar 06, 2009 ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64 Al Gore: No Doubt Saddam's Weapons Are ... Why did we go into Iraq? ... violence or threats, ... Bill Clinton /Al Gore Give WMD Speech on IRAQ - Rand … www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?237330-Bill-Clinton-Al-Gore... Last updated: Mar 25, 2010 · 4 posts · First post: Mar 25, 2010 YouTube - Al Gore: No Doubt Saddam's Weapons Are Grave Threat. Remove this section of ads by ... Here is what our life would be like now if Al Gore had won in 2000: Edited May 20, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Democrat Quotes on WMD - www.davidstuff.com www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction "One way or the other ... --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "Iraq is a long way from [here], ... snopes.com: Weapons of Mass Destruction Quotes www.snopes.com › Home › Politics › War/Anti-War ... by Democratic leaders about Saddam Hussein's acquisition or possession ofweapons of mass destruction. ... posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction ... Randomizer · Icon 1 · Message Board · Weddings Democrats on Iraq + WMD's (Weapons of Mass … www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk By EyeTubeOnUtube · 4 min · 47,263 views · Added May 26, 2008 At one time the Democrats and Republicans agreed on one thing: that Iraq and SaddamHussein had WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) and would use them. More Democrats who claim Iraq had WMDs -TruthorFiction.com www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bushlied.htm Quotes from Democrats About the Threat of Iraq-Truth! Summary of eRumor: Accusations that President Bush lied to the American people about wheth. Menu Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Not hindsight, no. Just sight: I said it at the time. I said it at the time *here* on this forum. It was always a transparent falsehood. Interesting that prior to Bush running for the presidency he was able to convince so many top democrats of a transparent falsehood “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.That is our bottom line.”President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998-Truth!This was a quote from President Clinton during a presentation at the Pentagon defending a decision to conduct military strikes against Iraq.“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998-Truth!Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on this occasion to be briefed by top military officials about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.His remarks followed that briefing.“Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998-Truth!This is a quote from Albright during an appearance at Ohio State University by Albright, who wasSecretary of State for Bill Clinton. “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998-Truth!This was at the same Ohio State University appearance as Madeline Albrigh “We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destructionprograms.”Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998-Truth!According to the U.S. Senate website, the text of this letter was signed by several Senators, both Democrat and Republican, including Senator John McCain and Joseph Lieberman.“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspectionprocess.”Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998-Truth!The text of this statement by Nancy Pelosi is posted on her congressional website. “Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999-Truth!This was from an appearance Albright made in Chicago.She was addressing the embargo of Iraq that was in effect at the time and criticism that it may have prevented needed medical supplies from getting into the country. Albright said, “There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It’s just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction, and palaces for his cronies.”“There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programscontinue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001Truth!The only letter with this quote from December 5, 2001 that we could find did not include the participation of Senator Bob Graham, but it was signed nine other senators including Democrat Joe Lieberman. Edited May 20, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted May 21, 2015 Moderators Posted May 21, 2015 "Democrats believed it" doesn't mean it's true: Democrats are wrong about many things. The thing about truth - and untruth - is that it is independent of who believes it. CoAspen 1 Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 "Democrats believed it" doesn't mean it's true: Democrats are wrong about many things. The thing about truth - and untruth - is that it is independent of who believes it. True. I am just curious when you possessed the knowledge it was a transparent falsehood.. Two years before Bush was president? How did Bush convince so many top democrats of a transparent falsehood that they were singing the same song before Bush became president? A falsehood is a deliberate lie. Was Clinton giving this same deliberate lie? Or is it more likely that most believed this to be true? Believing something to be true and acting on it and promoting a falsehood is not the same. So when did you discern the truth. Before the Bush presidency or after? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
hch Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 I have long said (it's in my book and I think I posted it on another topic on this forum as well) that GW set up an abomination of desolation in the midst of covenant week, 9/20/01 (he declared Constitution week from 9/17/01 to 9/24/01) and in the midst of Constitution week he told Congress that the beliefs of Muslims are good. They believe that salvation is possible without Christ. 1290-days later Pope John-Paul II died on 2 April 2005. And a blessing came on 17 May 2005 (1335-days after 9/20/01) when a British tabloid revealed that GW took America to war with Iraq on false pretenses. The curse was to be duped to believe that there is salvation apart from Christ; He is our sacrifice. And He is our oblation: Christ only saves those who accept Him as our personal Savior. Thus the blessing is to know who's teachings are trustworthy (to be able to differentiate truth from error). “Bush administration appeared intent on invading Iraq long before it acknowledged as much or sought Congress’ approval--and that it ‘fixed’ intelligence to fit its intention” (http://www.911insidejob.com/Iraqwar/Iraq-british_memo.htm). Fixed: GW’s administration misrepresented “the information that might have stopped the invasion of Iraq” to justify it. (http://www.salon.com/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/) “Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action … and facts were being fixed around the policy” (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0517-25.htm) Desmond Tutu, Archbishop Emeritus and Noble Peace Prize winner said, “the ex-leaders of Britain and the United States should be made to ‘answer for their actions…those responsible for this suffering and loss of life [Iraq war]… The then-leaders of the U.S. and U.K. fabricated the grounds… They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand - with the specter of Syria and Iran before us…’”(http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/desmond-tutu-george-bush-tony-blair-face-trial-hague-article-.1150170#ixzz2cqHUq1I4) And about a week ago CNN had a fascinating documentary (maybe last Thursday) that explained how the war in Iraq led to the incarceration of many folks who now seek revenge against America. And one prison allowed a Muslim cleric free access to all the prisoners in their high security facility. That cleric is now the head of ISIS and many of his fellow prisoners are his top aides in ISIS. So from CNN's report the facts show that GW's desire for vengeance created ISIS, an organization now hell-bent on vengeance against US. And in the event that it is not obvious: ISIS is drying up the Christian, and non-ISIS affiliated people from the area bordering the Euphrates River basin. That's right people are fleeing the Euphrates River basin for their lives. That is the legacy of GW and the Iraq war. And as I read Daniel and Revelation, GW has set endtime events in motion that are taking on a life of their own. The Supreme Court will rule in favor of gay marriage this June. Iran will attack the US ( I expect that it will be after that abomination is the law of the land certifying America's declaration of independence from God). The national Sunday Law will not be to far behind the war. And things will start to move even more rapidly. But the Laodicean attitude shouts "Don't tell me anything. I've got the Bible, the Sabbath, the Spirit of Prophecy, and I want to wait and see for myself, thank you just the same." As it was in the days of Noah, they waited till it started raining. Then they knew for sure. Only problem - too late to do them any good. Thanks, you can have the soap box now. Christian regards HCH Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
joeb Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 Evidence please on the WMD claims. I have never heard any. Every major intelligence agency in the world believed Saddam had WMDs. He did his best to make sure everyone believed it. It was a very common belief and that's why most major nations in the world joined the war effort. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/07/01/panel-global-intel-failure-led-to-iraq-wmd-belief.html That they were all wrong is significant. But it also means that Bush acted on the best evidence available to him. It's really easy to look back all these years later and condemn him knowing what we know now, but that is hardly being fair. To say he lied is not accurate or honest. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Stan Posted May 22, 2015 Author Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) I do not think that is true. The French knew he didn't , the UN inspector said they did not, The Canadian Intelligence did not believe they did, and they were not alone,.. although the UN for a seemed for a while was convinced he did. Collin Powell was convinced he did, by info he was provided. He was a very trusted man, and when he learned he had been scammed he backed away from GWB, The only person I know of, who has threaten to use WMD was Bush, with Iran, Iraq and North Korea. He very publicly said the use of Nuclear Weapons has not been ruled out. I do believe that he has pushed those countries to have equal power. Edited May 22, 2015 by Stan D. Allan 1 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
LifeHiscost Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 I do believe that he has pushed those countries to have equal power. And that would be whether it was intentional or inadvertent. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.