To What Degree?

[cricket]

That's just the problem--"thinking it sounds ok."

We have become such a sick society that we're not even aware when we've harmed others.

[Neil D]

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QBJFN said:

We have become such a sick society that we're not even aware when we've harmed others.

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Worse,,,what we thought we heard was not what was said at all...

[Bravus]

OK, Shane in PM and QBJFN here have basically come out and said that this comment of Neil's is racist. I'm completely rejecting that interpretation. Listen to me carefully, people. His post is a joke - a reference to a classic line from a movie. The movie itself is not racist either. Here's the context: the movie is the Mel Brooks comedy Blazing Saddles. You might think it's somewhat vulgar, as a lot of Mel Brooks' stuff is, and it's not always politically correct. The bad guy in the movie, Hedley Lamar, is pulling together a posse of bad guys to take on the good guys. Part of that posse is a group of Mexican bandidos, but it also includes (in Lamar's own words): "I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, b***erers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, a**-kickers, s***-kickers and Methodists." (OK, I did stipulate that it was vulgar.)

When he's deputising this posse he's giving out deputy sheriff's badges, but the Mexicans' leaders says "Badges? We don' need no steenkin' badges!" It's a statement of how tough they are, and a joke. The line has been used, abused, modified and used as a joke in a dozen or so movies since, as well as in novels and all over popular culture. Neil was making zero comment about the educational standards of Mexicans or other Hispanic people. He was making a very simple, non-racist, joke that referenced a widely known piece of popular culture. The fact that some people failed to 'get' the reference does *not* give them the right to accuse Neil of racism.

[Dr. Shane]

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Neil was making zero comment about the educational standards of Mexicans or other Hispanic people.

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Now that sounds like a whiteman's interpretation.

From what I understand, the original comment was about badges not degrees. So who substituted the word degree for the word badges? Was the Neil or was that from yet another movie? Whoever did, that is obviously a racist remark that reinforces the negetive sterotype that Mexicans are ignorant.

Just that fact that, while having a discussion about education and degrees, someone thinks of Mexicans, is insulting all by itself. Even if it is a line from a well-known movie.

Understand that this is a sterotype hispanics must wear because people keep repeating it. When a hispanic goes for a job interview he walks in wearing the label "ignorant" because racist Americans have thus labeled him. When we repeat those sterotypes, regardless if we are joking or not, we reinforce them.

• Jews are stingy
• Blacks are dirty
• Indians are drunks
• Irish are hot-tempered
• Germans are stubborn
• Italians are in the mofia.
• Hispanics are ignorant
• The french are cowards

These are all sterotypes and just because we may frame them in the context of a joke doesn't make them acceptable. I have a dream that one day a man will be judged by the content of his charachter and not the color of his skin.

[Dr. Shane]

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The fact that some people failed to 'get' the reference does *not* give them the right to accuse Neil of racism.

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People can make racist comments without realizing it. It doesn't mean they are racist. I once told a group of employers that their employees were uneducated. I was stressing to them the need to provide training because the overwhelming majority of their employees were highschool dropouts. My comment was taken as being racist even though it was not intended that way. So I appoligized and explained I was refering to the status of no highschool diploma and not of their race.

So I am not accusing Neil of being a racist, only of making a racist comment.

[Neil D]

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So I am not accusing Neil of being a racist, only of making a racist comment.

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The line from Blazing Saddles was done with an mexican accent.

The reference to degrees was in reference to a subset of Adventism where degrees are concidered as not needed. This subset of Adventism is found in the Outpost Centers and concervative Adventists who look down upon being certified as having completed courses that met with a standard. If you are familiar with outpost centers like Wildwood, and Hartland Institute, they promote, [or at least they did back in the 70's] being educated but without a diploma, nor the ceremony that goes with the attaining of the diploma.

Hence, the line "Degrees. We dont need no stinking degrees". And since the origional line is said with a mexican accent, I mimick the line. The aim of my remarks was at no degrees, and the subset of adventism that considers a no degree program as within the confines of EGW remarks regarding degrees.

And Somehow saying it with a Russian or Irish accent doesn't go over as well.

[Dr. Shane]

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If you are familiar with outpost centers like Wildwood, and Hartland Institute, they promote, [or at least they did back in the 70's] being educated but without a diploma, nor the ceremony that goes with the attaining of the diploma.

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This gets us back on the topic. I went to Andrews with a guy that got his degree at Hartland and was getting his masters degree at Andrews. From what I understood, Hartland gives out degrees but they are not accreditted and thus many other colleges do not accept them. Apparetnly Andrews does (or did) accept degrees from Hartland.

I am not familar with Woodland but I know Amazing Facts has a evangelistic school in South Dakota and those I have heard that went there are fantastic.

So does a person need a degree from an accreditted school to be a pastor, evagelist or conference worker?

[cricket]

I never said Neil was a racist. All I was trying to say is that it is a shame that we don't recognize in ourselves our propensity to hurt others.

I would have taken offense if it were done with a Russian accent, an Irish one, an American one, or a Canadian one.

I did get the reference. I'm not ignorant of commonly known phrases. I don't necessarily agree with the common acceptance of such phrases. To me, it was just rude. But, never, never did I claim Neil to be a racist.