The South Carolina targeted killings

[Stan]

Am thank full that our Church has made a statement on this event.  We need to go further.

If 9 americans were targeted and killed in somecountristan, american forces would go in, as well as the coweredly drones and zap scores of citizens, mostly collateral causality.

HOWEVER if they are Black Americans, the confederate flag on their own State Capital will not even be put at 1/2 mast.

Ask me how I feel about this.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Stan

[lazarus]

If 9 americans were targeted and killed in somecountristan, american forces would go in, as well as the coweredly drones and zap scores of citizens, mostly collateral causality.

HOWEVER if they are Black Americans, the confederate flag on their own State Capital will not even be put at 1/2 mast.

Jeb Bush......."I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

There is a delusion that inhabits the mind of many American's when it comes to racism. They are still captive to the belief and practice that black Americans are not real Americans. Sickening.

[Don777]

For the record:

Why the confederate flag was not at half-mast...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/19/why-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/

 

[Stan]

I so agree..  I would like to see the semi-americans names diassapear..  he is not a REAL american he is a Asian-American or Cuba-American or Afrcan-American..  

The passports say AMERICAN. or United States Citizenship or something similar.. have not looked at one recently.

[lazarus]

IMHO, Hyphenated names come from a healthy desire to express American identity.

[ChildofChrist]

While I think there ought to be gun control, that disarms the average American that has no ill-will towards anyone and are in their right mind and has the ability to determine when and where to pull that trigger.

It will be only another excuse to withdraw our rights as American citizens. And yes, soon our rights to assemble together to worship on the Sabbath will be also outlawed, bringing in the law that we MUST worship on Sundays.

 

[D_Bishop]

The alleged assailant says he almost decided to not go through with it, because the people at the prayer meeting were so nice to him.  That's scary. I am still having a hard time grasping this event.  

[Tom Wetmore]

For the record:

Why the confederate flag was not at half-mast...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/19/why-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/

 

The rationales to keep the confederate flag up are indeed thin.  Someone needs to show some serious moral backbone and stop perpetuating the lie that keeps it there.  That it supposedly takes a legislative act to do anything about it simply confirms how deeply embedded the underlying self deceit really is.  

I thought the remarks of the governor were particularly disassociated from reality.  Tragically comical in particular was her observation that no business CEO in her efforts to persuade them to move business to her state voiced any concern about the flag.  First of all absence of the expression of such a concern really means nothing.  But the implication  that she might look to big business as some sort of moral compass is absurdly laughable. 

[Robert]

Just a note:   Human nature is the problem. The flag is only a symbol of part of human nature (supremacy & hate).  Taking the flag down (and it wouldn't hurt my feelings) won't solve the issue.  Where you have "self" you have division.  

I like how Jack Sequeria puts it:

Using man as his tool, Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely on the principle of self and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.”  Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious.  According to 1 John2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self)

Edited June 20, 2015 by Robert

[Don777]

Regarding Robert's quote of Jack Sequeria, I think I get the theology of it but there is more... Consider the list of human endeavors:

Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) —

1. nationalism,
   
   I don't see a lot of use for nationalism for the Christian. It is a useless concept it seems. Perhaps someone can show otherwise. If it is important to an individual perhaps a Christian of that same nation can reach that individual more effectively.
    
2. tribalism,
   
   The same for tribalism as for nationalism.
    
3. politics,
   
   Politics is what we do when we work for people. So, politics is important. How we do politics is what matters. God did, and does, politics for humans through Jesus. It was a deadly enterprise for Him. But, even so, we must enter politics as Jesus did. We must serve people. That is our calling in the Gospel; i.e. created unto good works, Eph. 2;8-10
    
4. education,
   
   As Adventists we can understand the role of education by reading what Ellen White wrote in her book of the same title.  The purpose of education is to restore in humanity the image of God. The grander our views of God the bigger our conception of education's purpose.
    
5. commerce,
   
   The Christian must bring his transformational ideas to business. Business is to be organized to serve humanity, selflessly, effectively, and sustainably.
    
6. recreation,
   
   Jesus said, "Come apart and rest awhile..." Or, come apart and enjoy some re-creation of your energies so you can get back into the work of blessing humanity.
    
7. sports,
   
   Sports, when done right, is a form of recreation. It can also be a means of blessing humanity. Watch what happens when a soccer ball is given to a group of children. There is lots of money available via sports. Money can either bless or curse humanity. If it blesses, bring it on.
    
8. social clubs,
   
   Many people would wither away and die if it were not for social clubs. Jesus went where the people gathered. We should too.
    
9. technology,
   
   Here we are using technology and claiming it is merely self-serving. Of course its not. It is how we use it. The Gospel thrives on technology. Christians can bless the world with technology's help.
    
10. etc. — 
    
    I think you see where I am going with this... Pastor Jack's statement has some theological value but when we examine it closely, it needs some restating.
    
     

is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious.

Not true for how the Christian uses these foundational concepts...


 

 

 

[Robert]

Don777: Pastor Jack's statement has some theological value but when we examine it closely, it needs some restating.

Me:  No, not at all, but that's not the discussion here....I'll be glad to counter your statements....Start another topic....

Edited June 20, 2015 by Robert

[LifeHiscost]

  They are still captive to the belief and practice that black Americans are not real Americans. Sickening. 

 

‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.....Luke 18

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[whbae]

I think the blacks segregating themselves to certain degree.  Why the term "African-American".  By definition, African-American means someone from Africa living in America.  I can say myself I am an Asian-American as I came from one of those Asian countries and living here in America.  Is it out of desperation the Blacks calling themselves African-American?  What about those blacks came from other than Africa.  What about those who came from Mexico?  Why don't they call Mexican-American instead of Latinos? Would you specify those from Germany, German-American? It would be endless. How are you going to call those who have a few mixed blood such as Irish, German, Italian, etc, are we  going to specify those names?  I would very much to see drop those hyphenated word and simply use "American".

[LifeHiscost]

I think the blacks segregating themselves to certain degree.  Why the term "African-American".  By definition, African-American means someone from Africa living in America.  I can say myself I am an Asian-American as I came from one of those Asian countries and living here in America.  Is it out of desperation the Blacks calling themselves African-American?  What about those blacks came from other than Africa.  What about those who came from Mexico?  Why don't they call Mexican-American instead of Latinos? Would you specify those from Germany, German-American? It would be endless. How are you going to call those who have a few mixed blood such as Irish, German, Italian, etc, are we  going to specify those names?  I would very much to see drop those hyphenated word and simply use "American".

God is Love  Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Then again, if you belong to the body of Christ__________

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.....Galatians 3

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[D_Bishop]

God is Love  Jesus saves!

I have lived through and experienced segregation in this country. I know what it looks like, I know how it feels. I watched the civil rights marches, various forms of justice, or injustice.  I know all about black crime.  No need to remind me.  But for some johnny come lately from Asia or where ever to ask 'why blacks segregate ourselves?' What kind of @#A is that?  "Is it out of desperation?"  Yes you could say that.  

But this is the kind of ignorant, type first, don't bother to become informed blather you get on message boards.  I am not surprised, and I should not be bothered.  

[LifeHiscost]

D_Bishop

   I should not be bothered.

I couldn't agree with you more. And the fact that you are, to take the words from William Shakespeare, "methinks thou dost protest too much!

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[joeb]

I so agree..  I would like to see the semi-americans names diassapear..  he is not a REAL american he is a Asian-American or Cuba-American or Afrcan-American..  

The passports say AMERICAN. or United States Citizenship or something similar.. have not looked at one recently.

I agree with you on this.  Names such as these divide.  They do not bring about a greater closeness, nor greater understanding and acceptance. 

[lazarus]

  Why the term "African-American".  By definition, African-American means someone from Africa living in America. 

LOL. What continent do you think  black Americans came from? You really can't be this ignorant really.

Is it out of desperation the Blacks calling themselves African-American?

Please explain from whence that particular word came to your mind. Desperation?

Why don't they call Mexican-American instead of Latinos?

But they do!

I would very much to see drop those hyphenated word and simply use "American".

Perhaps it would be helpful to you to seek understand why people choose to identity themselves more specifically than just American.

Edited June 20, 2015 by lazarus

[Tom Wetmore]

Maybe it is more of concern to understand why this is even an issue for some people. Why does it bother someone that someone else uses this more specific terms?

Edited June 20, 2015 by Tom Wetmore

[lazarus]

 

 

‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.....Luke 18

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

Life...It's quite objectionable for you to use scripture in such a passive-aggressive way. Stand up and just say you didn't like what I said. Stop hiding behind tangential passages to make your point. It obscures your argument and belittles the word of God IMHO.

[Tom Wetmore]

I don't feel a need to identify myself as an English/British American, even though that is my predominant heritage, albeit more than ten generations ago.  My ancestors did not become Americans until the USA was born.  But after so many generations and having no obvious or distinctive Englishness it really is not much of my identity or experience.  But why should I be bothered if others have a different identify based on their own distinctive heritage and experience?  

[lazarus]

Maybe it is more of concern to understand why this is even an issue for some people.

True.

I think some folks are actually offended or even angered by the use of African/Asian/Mexican in front of American. Perhaps they feel that an American can't be Asian too! Is there resentment there?

Edited June 20, 2015 by lazarus

[whbae]

LOL. What continent do you think  black Americans came from? You really can't be this ignorant really.

Majority of blacks especially who wanted to be called as "African-Americans" were born right here in this country called United States of America!!!  Therefore,

linguistically speaking they are simply Americans not thing else.

If one wants to identify more in detail about one's blood, it would be a personal thing not an official linguistic terminology.

[D_Bishop]

I was born in america, but they referred to me as colored.  Society at large was as guilty of the difference making as anyone.  Then the name changed to negro, or the american negro.  It never was and probably never will be just american.  Then in the radical sixties the name changed to black.  American people of african descent embraced their black color and heritage.

 But the term black is not that accurate.  There are many people who are black who have light skin color.  It is a long and complicated social and historical issue.  So, the term african american came into being.  

When I fill out government forms they want to know, who are you? What group do you fall into?  Are you black?  White?  I work for a government agency.  I hand out forms to people like this all day, every day.  

As fare as assimilation I see and interact with people who are much more alienated from the american myth of the melting pot than african americans.  I have talked to people, as much as I can, who have been here 20 + years, and they don't know the language.  If you ask them what there national flag is they will not say the american flag.  They will point to the mexican flag, or the honduran flag or where ever they come from.  Some show disdain for american or Western law, preferring sharia law.  

The whimsical notion that african americans segregated themselves is so ignorant, it is laughable, but I digress.