Why are God's people so violent?

[Gail]

Pastor Harold often speaks of the followers of the 3 religions which stem from Abraham (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) as being among the most violent on earth.

Why is that, especially when Jesus was meek and lowly in heart and said that love for God and love for man were the 2 concepts upon which all the commandments hang.

[CoAspen]

Hmmmmm.......and then there are the Quakers!

[CoAspen]

Supremacy, correctness, not my neighbors keeper...unless, manifest destiny, straighten out the heathen, etc etc. The weapon has always been seen as the persuader, even in religious matters. People see the final 'hell fire' as giving Gods people the right to enforce their will on others. Gods going to do it, so why can't I! Historical, from the OT, an angry God, laying waste the land so that the righteous would be safe and inherit.

[Robert]

John 16:2 You (the believer) will be thrown out of the synagogue. In fact, a time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing God a favor. 3 They will do things like that because they do not know the Father or me. 

Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they (the Samaritans) did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Robert

[Samie]

Pastor Harold often speaks of the followers of the 3 religions which stem from Abraham (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) as being among the most violent on earth.

Why is that, especially when Jesus was meek and lowly in heart and said that love for God and love for man were the 2 concepts upon which all the commandments hang.

When one believes that the other fellow is not among God's people, then it is relatively NOT difficult to do injury to the person he believes is of the devil.  The teaching of exclusivity prevalent among existing religious groups add fuel to the fire. Just stating events, and not to be understood as degrading John Calvin, why was Calvin in favor of executing Servitus? I think Calvin believed Servitus is not among the elect.

But if one believes that people are born with their names written in the Book of lIfe, then it is really difficult to harm the other fellow, since he is a brother, a co-member in the household of God.  This is why we need to preach the Gospel that our Lord wanted preached to the world before He comes again. I call this the Pure Gospel.

[Sojourner]

I think there are several issues at play here. 

Firstly the least politically correct one is the fact that I am not keen to be aligned with islam as a branch of Abraham despite the historical accuracy of that statement. The koran openly calls for violence in the same pattern as the Old Testament is written, yet it does not have anything like the New Testament to complete it. ISIS do what is commanded in the koran, their theologians are not lying when they state that killing the infidels is called for in the koran because it does say those things whether people wish to acknowledge it or not. 

Secondly I don't believe Judaism to be amongst one of the three most violent religions on the earth. For starters there are several forms of Judaism and leaders of one group do not speak for the leadership of another. Also I won't be drawn into stating that Judaism must be violent because of the wars Israel has fought in modern times. If the nations bordering Israel laid down their weapons there would be peace. If Israel laid down their weapons there would be a second genocide of Jewish people fairly promptly. The nation of Iran publicly state their desire is to "wipe them off the map" to the silence of the UN until Israel defend themselves. 

Thirdly in terms of sheer numbers, Christianity and Islam dwarf most other religions combined, statistics will suggest that because of the sheer number of people that wear the label Christian or Muslim, there are going to be people that commit crime and violence. There are also going to be people that are the salt of the earth that devote their lives to helping people. It could easilly be said that Christianity is the most compassionate religion on earth because of the sheer number of people that help other people for no other reason than that they are Christians. I once saw the figures for the number of people kept alive in Africa by the Roman Catholic Church alone and it was well into the millions of people. 

Fourthly, violence in Buddhism and Hinduism to the point of killing and maiming people is not as uncommon an experience as you may think. Buddhism is supposed to be about peace, yet if you google "Myanmar Rohingya Muslims" and Buddhist Monk "Ashin Wirathu" You may be taken aback at what you find as to how genocide has been and is being committed in Myanmar in the name of nationalism and Buddhism. - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30930997

As I am aware, there were people that wore the label - "Seventh-day Adventist" that took part in the Rwanda Massacre. The fact is that there are people from all races and religions that are violent> I do not believe that the prevalence is any higher in Christianity or Judaism than in the secular world. People like to tell us that Religion causes more wars than anything else, yet that is not true. Most instances of war are motivated by politics not actually religion. 

[brotherly love]

Your Pastor Harold is looking thru the world with a foggy lense.The biggest atrocities of our time have been committed by non-religious ideologies. Communism and Nazism shed the most blood in the last 100 years. The communist movement in south east Asia seen horrible outcomes and the Chinese mantra of eat the rich was not just a slogan-it was carried out.
Joseph Stalin killed many, over 20 million Ukrainians were systematically starved to death. Hitlers Nazi ideology butchered millions of people. The secular west is no more bashful as it crushes the heads of the unborn and uses the bodies for medical research.

Islam does not believe in the God of the Old Testament no matter how hard they try. Yet ideologies attached to Judaism and Christianity do also cause untold grief for people in the middle east. Zionism with its violence and systematic colonization of a people because of race has inflamed an ideology in Islam that has been mostly amateur until ISIS came along.

The common denominator is placing a certain group above or below another group with an ideology

Ideologies are attached to the Bible, and then the Bible is read in light of the ideology, instead of the other way around. The message of the Bible not to embrace death, but to embrace life is completely ignored.

Edited August 1, 2015 by brotherly love

[Gail]

Because others have also done it doesn't excuse the persecution in the past at the hand of those who did have the New Testament. What happened to the command to love our enemy?

[brotherly love]

Because others have also done it doesn't excuse the persecution in the past at the hand of those who did have the New Testament. What happened to the command to love our enemy?

The command to love our enemy is just the tip of the iceberg of the teachings of the Bible of embracing life and not mixing it with death. Those who would use the Bible to prop up senseless wanton violence have to do this despite of the Bible

Also to say that those who follow it are the most violent is a bit misleading also

[Gail]

 

Ideologies are attached to the Bible, and then the Bible is read in light of the ideology, instead of the other way around. The message of the Bible not to embrace death, but to embrace life is completely ignored.

I guess my question to this would be, Why? Why choose death over life? I don't think Jesus could have been much plainer

[Outta Here]

Pastor Harold often speaks of the followers of the 3 religions which stem from Abraham (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) as being among the most violent on earth.

Why is that, especially when Jesus was meek and lowly in heart and said that love for God and love for man were the 2 concepts upon which all the commandments hang.

Jealousy, envy and covetousness. 

[DreamWeaver]

I think people toss too much flack at Christians, Muslims and Jews. We may have bloody histories, but pagans have their own bloody histories as well.

In my opinion we only stand out in the limelight because of the fact that Christians, Muslims and Jews have more members and converts than most other religions. And since that's the case:

• Our beliefs are held more responsible for a lot of things throughout history
• The chances of violence occurring and actually being recorded is higher
• Due to the fact that we are larger groups, we receive more attention inevitably (especially since we dominate 1st world powers)

Nothing special, in my opinion. Things probably would be looked at differently if Christians, Muslims and Jews were fewer in numbers and if we were put in situations where we have to actually depend on each other more to survive (hence the necessity for persecution to cleanse the church).

On a spiritual level though, I think that the Devil works within the Abraham belief systems the most because we are the closest to the truth and it would suit his purposes to make the ones closer to God appear unappealing and the least like God. We're people with spiritual targets on our bodies for demons to pick with us. And then we're held to higher standards too because our beliefs require a certain kind of composure from us. So because demons know that we ought to be on our best behavior, they have a field day tempting us and high-fiving each other about it.

Edited August 1, 2015 by DreamWeaver

[phkrause]

Secondly I don't believe Judaism to be amongst one of the three most violent religions on the earth. For starters there are several forms of Judaism and leaders of one group do not speak for the leadership of another.

First I believe that he means Jews from before the NT, which would actually mean "Hebrews" or "Israelites." and not Jews per say. But I could be wrong!

Secondly, could you please show me the 3 different groups of Jews and how they don't speak to each other! Thanks for your answer!!

[Sojourner]

Some of the major groups of Jews are, 

Orthodox, 

Ultra Orthodox, 

Conservative, 

Progressive, 

Secular, 

Mizrachi, 

Ashkenazi, 

Shephardi. 

All have their own organisational structures, leadership and recognition of rabbis and so forth. 

[Robert]

Pastor Harold often speaks of the followers of the 3 religions which stem from Abraham (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) as being among the most violent on earth.

Why is that...?

Gail,

Did you get your answer from my quote:

"...those who kill you will think they are doing God a favor."

Why?

"They will do things like that because they do not know the Father or me."

 

[brotherly love]

I guess my question to this would be, Why? Why choose death over life? I don't think Jesus could have been much plainer

We are fallen and have a hard time making right choices-we all are subject to this reality. We have to catch ourselves in utero, before our choices gestate into something that is hard to turn around.

Christian identity would be a good example-they see an exclusive Aryan race in the Bible, and once this gets hold of a person it can be hard to turn around.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Gail,

Did you get your answer from my quote:

"...those who kill you will think they are doing God a favor."

Why?

"They will do things like that because they do not know the Father or me."

 

Yes.

And there are so many "examples" in the Bible where God has acted violently. "And of course", they say, God often kills His enemies, and we should model our lives after His example.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Yes.

And there are so many "examples" in the Bible where God has acted violently. "And of course", they say, God often kills His enemies, and we should model our lives after His example.

 

But Robert, I also say, they do not know the Father or Jesus.

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Stewart (SDA)

[8thdaypriest]

When one believes that the other fellow is not among God's people, then it is relatively NOT difficult to do injury to the person he believes is of the devil.  The teaching of exclusivity prevalent among existing religious groups add fuel to the fire. Just stating events, and not to be understood as degrading John Calvin, why was Calvin in favor of executing Servitus? I think Calvin believed Servitus is not among the elect.

But if one believes that people are born with their names written in the Book of lIfe, then it is really difficult to harm the other fellow, since he is a brother, a co-member in the household of God.  This is why we need to preach the Gospel that our Lord wanted preached to the world before He comes again. I call this the Pure Gospel.

I do NOT have to believe all names began in the Book of Life, to remember that "God so loved the world".  And "if you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto Me".  No matter who the person is, or what they believe or have done - Jesus loves them.  Jesus said, "In all their affliction, I was afflicted".  When we intentionally harm another person, we HURT Jesus. 

I believe that sometimes - as in self defense, wounding or even killing the attacker was allowed in the Torah, and can be necessary.  Allowing your wife to be raped, because you won't attack the attacker, is not saintly self-restraint or brotherly love. 

[Gerr]

It is simply wrong for anyone to claim that God's children are violent.  

NIV84 | ‎1 Jn 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 

Deception is the devil's main mo.  What could make God look so bad than for Satan to pass off his own children as God's?

[Gail]

What do you say then when "God's children" do things like hate gays or Muslims? In the past they hung or burned those who believed differently from them. Were they not God's children?

[DreamWeaver]

What do you say then when "God's children" do things like hate gays or Muslims? In the past they hung or burned those who believed differently from them. Were they not God's children?

I don't think God's children "hate" gays or Muslims by default like many people would like to assume. And if they started to do that, it probably developed as a reaction to today's confusion, aggression and accusations when it comes to these matters. I actually think many Christians didn't even have those two groups of people on their minds until those groups became prominent topics in America that kindled aggravation and heated arguments. I think what often looks like hate on the surface is actually people being tired of the same ol' stressful debates and people getting tired of having to explain the difference between how they feel towards the person as oppose to the sin the person is committing. Non-Christians and even some liberal Christians within the church seem to have to a hard time grasping the concept of disliking the sin and not the sinner, and that often keeps Christians in a very face-palm worthy position that can make one's ears hot.

As for the hangings and burnings, I highly doubt those who were at the forefront of those situations were really God's children. And if they were to be God's children later in life, they didn't just keep hanging and burning folks throughout their lives. I'm sure Jesus straightened them out at some point like how He taught Paul how to be nicer after that situation with Steven.

[LifeHiscost]

 

As for the hangings and burnings, I highly doubt those who were at the forefront of those situations were really God's children. And if they were to be God's children later in life, they didn't just keep hanging and burning folks throughout their lives. I'm sure Jesus straightened them out at some point like how He taught Paul how to be nicer after that situation with Steven.

⁸ Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

⁹ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

¹⁰ Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

¹¹ And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.....1 Corinthians 6

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[DreamWeaver]

lol. I called him Steven. Its Stephen. Woopsy!

[Aliensanctuary]

Religions, all created by erring, fallible men, often get sidetracked, losing sight of the ideals that would benefit mankind.