A GOD of CONCESSIONS! divorce etc.ListIsLong

[GayatfootofCross]

Acts 17.....

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at ; but now commandeth  all menevery where to repent : 

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will  judge the world in righteousness

God winks, or turns a blind eye to - you are right that God is a God of concessions.  We have all earned the wages of sin which is death.  So God has to make concessions and extend grace, for now, or we all would be toast.

Not such a good strategy to deliberately do what one knows to be sinful behaviour.  This sears one's conscience and comes close to tempting God.

It is important that we worship God out of a clear conscience - and to do this we need to root out private sin.  And God will help us do that. 

 

 

Hi Wingnut!

Everything we do/say/think that is not self sacrificial love to others  ..or even strangers in mind,speech or actions is sinful behavior..

And that is just the second of God's great Commandments.

Not even bringing up the the Number One Love Commandment.

so..I don't know what sinful behavior you are talking about.

Do you mean the symptoms that register high on the sin scale according to what we find offensive or not in others?

 

The GOD OF CONCESSIONS strike again!

Blessings!

Edited October 20, 2015 by GayatfootofCross
i did not capitalize one word..oops maybe more?

[Wingnut]

 

Hi Wingnut!

Everything we do/say/think that is not self sacrificial love to others  ..or even strangers in mind,speech or actions is sinful behavior..

And that is just the second of God's great Commandments.

Not even bringing up the the Number One Love Commandment.

so..I don't know what sinful behavior you are talking about.

Do you mean the symptoms that register high on the sin scale according to what we find offensive or not in others?

 

The GOD OF CONCESSIONS strike again!

Blessings!

I assure you that I am referring to my own sins - which are many.

I drank heavily for many decades (enjoying every moment) but this was getting old when I came into contact with the SDA's and gave it up completely and easily with no cravings (thank God).  Alcohol was the first thing I used to buy every paycheque.  Now I am even happier without it.

[debbym]

Can two walk together unless they are agreed.

God cannot bless sin, and in His presence sin is exposed.  We cannot walk with God unless we agree with what the Spirit reveals to us.

The Spirit reveals, our sin, our need of God, that we become aware of in the presence of His Holiness.  And then the Spirit reveals that sin and the Satan are fully condemned and are sentenced to end.  The Death of Christ revealed the end of sin is death.  In Jesus sinners have a living hope and may have a progressive experience the power of the Death and Resurrection of Christ.

In the unfolding of these truths rests the desire of God for all sinners to turn to Him and live... a great exercise of graciousness and patience and kindness has always been extended to humanity, has always been given through Jesus.  It is the Goodness of God that leads us to repentance.

Jesus is the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.  The Light of divine love exposes our corruption in our fallen humanity, and offers to us His divine nature that we may escape... and this truth is a struggle for humanity to grasp.  The love of God asks us to surrender to Him our whole being to step into His will for us and to forsake our selfish will. He that hath begun a good work in us will finish it.  Amen.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

God cannot bless sin, and in His presence sin is exposed.  We cannot walk with God unless we agree with what the Spirit reveals to us.

The Spirit reveals, our sin, our need of God, that we become aware of in the presence of His Holiness.  And then the Spirit reveals that sin and the Satan are fully condemned and are sentenced to end. 

 

And to tag along with the above....  Just remember that the Holy Spirit does not reveal the same things, at the same time, to every person.  What may be *truth* for one, may not have yet be shown to be *truth* to another.  

God is a merciful God.  Christ walked with people who hadn't been "enlightened".... He didn't condone sin, but sure as the sky is blue, He didn't condemn anyone who was living according to the light that had been shown to them. 

And we are not privy to what has been shown to anyone but ourselves...

 

[Naomi]

May I suggest that if we don't spend quality time with Him in the study of His Word and in prayer ... both praying and listening ... seriously and sincerely asking for insight from our very own Bibles ..... if may be difficult to become enlightened.

[joeb]

I would just add one thing to this thread.  God never makes concessions with sin.  If He did Jesus need not have died on the cross, and the human race need not have had a death sentence against it because of sin.

Concession
Concession Con*ces"sion, n. [L. concessio, fr. concedere: cf.
 F. concession. See Concede.]
 1. The act of conceding or yielding; usually implying a
 demand, claim, or request, and thus distinguished from
 giving, which is voluntary or spontaneous.
 [1913 Webster]

 By mutual concession the business was adjusted.
 --Hallam.
 [1913 Webster]

 2. A thing yielded; an acknowledgment or admission; a boon; a
 grant; esp. a grant by government of a privilege or right
 to do something; as, a concession to build a canal.
 [1913 Webster]

Where did Jesus, or Moses, say divorce was OK and that God was conceding that He had made a mistake in how He set up marraige and should have allowed divorce to begin with?  The language we use is very important for words have meanings, and concession is the wrong thought to convey what God did in this instance.  God never yeilds to sin.  He makes arrangements to overcome it, but He never concedes towards it.

[GayatfootofCross]

I would just add one thing to this thread.  God never makes concessions with sin.  If He did Jesus need not have died on the cross, and the human race need not have had a death sentence against it because of sin.

Where did Jesus, or Moses, say divorce was OK and that God was conceding that He had made a mistake in how He set up marraige and should have allowed divorce to begin with?  The language we use is very important for words have meanings, and concession is the wrong thought to convey what God did in this instance.  God never yeilds to sin.  He makes arrangements to overcome it, but He never concedes towards it.

 

Hi Joeb.

Nice to see you again!

Well Maybe there is better word and we can use it. As Author of this Thread ..I am open to suggestions (psst..u can send me the word privately in CA message) and maybe Stan can let me edit the Title.

I have repeatedly made my case saying its not about sin. It is about us Humans and a Facet of LOVE/GOD.  1st Cor 13:5

And I am not advocating Divorce at all by word or action. [laughs out loud] {actually howls at the thought}

I have never married and don't intend to even though the Supreme Court says I could. So anyhoo!

Did you read the OP? ...and my subsequent posts?

It might clarify my intent.

And seeing even a high media profile SDA Person with 2 divorces come back as Head of the Ministry. And a host of men and woman on multiple marriages in my Church get to stay as members and Position Holders. You have to take up the sin of Divorce/Adultery ( they divorce for all kinds of reasons now) with the Conference as well as the local Churches.

Abraham and Jacob and and David and Solomon (ho hum) are a few examples of SINFUL LIFESTYLES of not living the IDEAL set up at Creation. Umm ..A SIN!

 God works with them and saves them. I believe the FOUR  I mentioned ..will be in heaven even though they died without correcting/erasing/banishing/changing/whatever the status of their multiple marriages before their deaths.

CONCESSIONS!

It is not something I made up.

It is written all over the Bible.

Semantics aside.

And I will repeat myself again and say............. I use the TOPIC of divorce cause so many Christians can't get it together. And maybe see themselves in God's eyes on their life choices.

Until we  LOVE GOD with all our hearts and Love Others,Strangers,Enemies as ourselves. What else can God do with us?

But Be WHO HE is?

A God of Concessions.

 

# unless we are ready for translation .. God is making Concessions every moment of our lives!

We don't even realize how much we sin. Oh BOY!

HE is that HOLY and that GRACIOUS at the Same Time

We don't realize how sinful we are and HoW Wonderful GOD is toward us every moment!

Edited October 21, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[Wingnut]

 

Abraham and Jacob and and David and Solomon (ho hum) are a few examples of SINFUL LIFESTYLES of not living the IDEAL set up at Creation. Umm ..A SIN!

God is making Concessions every moment of our lives!

We don't even realize how much we sin. Oh BOY!

 

The fact that all the above men were polygamists does not make them sinners.  God allowed polygamy.

When Nathan came to David pointing out his sins, God said in 2 Sam 12...

8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do  evil in his sight? thou hast killed  Uriahthe Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

But murder and adultery were sins God could not ignore.

When a traffic officer lets you off with a warning instead of a speeding ticket, is he extending grace to encourage you to go and sin some more?

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

The fact that all the above men were polygamists does not make them sinners.  God allowed polygamy.

When Nathan came to David pointing out his sins, God said in 2 Sam 12...

8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do  evil in his sight? thou hast killed  Uriahthe Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

But murder and adultery were sins God could not ignore.

When a traffic officer lets you off with a warning instead of a speeding ticket, is he extending grace to encourage you to go and sin some more?

 

 

 

hi Wingnut.

It is my understanding that anything that misses the mark is a sin.

That is one definition of sin.

The Sanctity of Marriage is One Wife for Life and for the Husband to love and love on the Wife as Jesus loves and give itself to the Church.

There are numerous scriptures  that speak to what a Perfect Marriage is.

They are not suggestions.

The ideal is patterned after the Garden of Eden.

and that Pattern has been under attack since the very first moment right after The FALL.

 

and BTW those men were sinners. They didn't have to get married and married and married to prove it.

Blessings!

 

"God allowed polygamy." -Wingnut

interesting choice of words

 

Concession
Concession Con*ces"sion, n. [L. concessio, fr. concedere: cf.
 F. concession. See Concede.]
 1. The act of conceding or yielding; usually implying a
 demand, claim, or request, and thus distinguished from
 giving, which is voluntary or spontaneous.

2. A thing yielded; an acknowledgment or admission; a boon; a
 grant; esp. a grant by government of a privilege or right
 to do something; as, a concession to build a canal.
 [1913 Webster]

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[GayatfootofCross]

allow

[uh-lou]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

verb (used with object)

1.

to give permission to or for; permit:

to allow a student to be absent; No swimming allowed.

2.

to let have; give as one's share; grant as one's right:

to allow a person $100 for expenses.

3.

to permit by neglect, oversight, or the like:

to allow a door to remain open.

4.

to admit; acknowledge; concede:

to allow a claim.

5.

to take into consideration, as by adding or subtracting; set apart:

to allow an hour for changing trains.

6.

Older Use. to say; think.

7.

Archaic. to approve; sanction.

verb (used without object)

8.

to permit something to happen or to exist; admit (often followed by of):

to spend more than one's budget allows; a premise that allows of only one conclusion.

Idioms

9.

allow for, to make concession or provision for:

to allow for breakage.

.......................................................

 

I think we found that word!

 

 

New Title

GOD of Allowances!

NEW OP

GOD allows Alot!

Edited October 21, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

 

.......

New Title

GOD of Allowances!

NEW OP

GOD allows Alot!

Edited 2 hours ago by GayatfootofCross    

See the "You offer" thread

God is Love!  Jesus saves!   

[Wingnut]

 

The ideal is patterned after the Garden of Eden.

 

"God allowed polygamy." -Wingnut

interesting choice of words

 

Concession
Concession Con*ces"sion, n. [L. concessio, fr. concedere: cf.
 F. concession. See Concede.]
 1. The act of conceding or yielding; usually implying a
 demand, claim, or request, and thus distinguished from
 giving, which is voluntary or spontaneous.

2. A thing yielded; an acknowledgment or admission; a boon; a
 grant; esp. a grant by government of a privilege or right
 to do something; as, a concession to build a canal.
 [1913 Webster]

 

Yes beyond doubt God concedes, winks at, turns a blind eye to, yields...., grants grace.

WHY is the big question.

Is it so that we can go and sin no more, or is it that we can go and sin some more?

And we cannot look at how God has granted us and others grace and deduce from this that since God did nothing about sins in the past, He will do nothing about it in future.

If we know that something in our life is a SIN (as opposed to just missing an ideal) then our attitude to what we do about this is very important to God.

If our attitude is remorse and trying to quit, God will grant us supernatural help.

If our attitude is "oh well" then God will leave us in our sin.  But next time we cry out to Him, he might respond "oh well".

 

Why did God love David so much?  Look at his attitude towards his own sins...

Ps 51

1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 

4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned , and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest , and be clearwhen thou judgest . 

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 

6 Behold, thou desirest  truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know  wisdom. 

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean : wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 

8Make me to hear  joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast brokenmay rejoice . 

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right  spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 

13 Then will I teach  transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken  spirit: a brokenand a contrite  heart, O God, thou wilt not despise .

[GayatfootofCross]

Yes beyond doubt God concedes, winks at, turns a blind eye to, yields...., grants grace.

WHY is the big question.

Is it so that we can go and sin no more, or is it that we can go and sin some more?

And we cannot look at how God has granted us and others grace and deduce from this that since God did nothing about sins in the past, He will do nothing about it in future.

If we know that something in our life is a SIN (as opposed to just missing an ideal) then our attitude to what we do about this is very important to God.

If our attitude is remorse and trying to quit, God will grant us supernatural help.

If our attitude is "oh well" then God will leave us in our sin.  But next time we cry out to Him, he might respond "oh well".

 

Why did God love David so much?  Look at his attitude towards his own sins...

Ps 51

1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 

4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned , and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest , and be clearwhen thou judgest . 

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 

6 Behold, thou desirest  truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know  wisdom. 

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean : wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 

8Make me to hear  joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast brokenmay rejoice . 

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right  spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 

13 Then will I teach  transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken  spirit: a brokenand a contrite  heart, O God, thou wilt not despise .

I love Psalms 51

AMEN AMEN

I read it  out  loud to GOD plenty.

"Is it so that we can go and sin no more, or is it that we can go and sin some more?"-Wingnut

No  one is saying that here.

And I clarified the matter at least six or seven times on the thread.

So maybe something is lost in translation?

I can't keep repeating the real issue and God's Character/Facet and be heard not again.

So God bless!

Oh to be a WORDSMITH!

 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[Wingnut]

 

And I clarified the matter at least six or seven times on the thread.

So maybe something is lost in translation?

I can't keep repeating the real issue and God's Character/Facet and be heard not again.

So God bless!

Oh to be a WORDSMITH!

 

 

Hi GayatfootofCross

I have reread your original post, and subsequent ones and I still do not get your point.  Yes God is a God of concessions.  So.....?

Maybe the 8th time will be the charm.  

 

ps.  If your point is "...and that is so cool" then I am sure everyone here will agree with you.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Wingnut

[GayatfootofCross]

well here goes!

we sin so much as natural sinners as the day is long even after converted to HIM.

Every selfish act

Every time we have a thought about another that is not the one Opinion that GOd has for them (i.e. I don't condemn them and I love them And I died to save them).

Every time we checkout or go into fantasy and not be present for someone.

Every time we envy or lust or have anxious thoughts.

Every time we want in first or the bigger slice.

Every minutia of every thought that Doesn't Put God first or to love on every person we meet when it is not convenient.

From the huge lifestyle choices of spending money on the latest gadgetry or latest fashion or hoarding more than you need

to the tiniest guilty pleasure of winning arguments and trying to be right all the time..

It is all sin that we don't even count as such.. but breaks THE TWO Commandments that Jesus shares.

The Title of this OP ends with."..the List is Long"

We have no idea how sinful we really are and we have no idea How gracious GOD is with us every moment that we breath out judgement or rude comments or fault finding or an accusation.

(ever see that here?..you think they cry on the pillow after every post of that nature.. and then do it again?)

From our thoughts to our disapproving eyes to our proud look.

The list is so long and insidious we don't have the mental complexity  to confess every night or to even know how much an innocent comment we made actually hurt someone.

We are sinners who sin like breathing. And some of us even have the ignorant audacity to think we have overcome so much that we count the sin on two hands for the day and be pretty proud we are closer to GOD and almost ready to be translated? I met them. They brag at prayer meetings.

The closer we draw to GOD the more sinful we realize we are and yet at the same time (if u have a clear View of HIM) ..How Much HE loves us anyways and already Forgiven no matter what we selfishly think or what  we have done or said thoughtlessly or an impulse we acted on..

God doesn't fixate on our sins. We do!

God is so good and so patient and so beautiful that He is called LOVE..He is not called a God of love..he is summed up as LOVE and that love is personified by JESUS CHRIST and even spelled out by Paul.

Love does not keep track of Wrongs ! Cor 13:15

It is a facet of LOVE!

............................................

Changes Gears

God does not turn away when we sin. We do. When God showed up in the cool of the day for the evening face to face relational conversations they ran! God knew where they were and yet called out "Where are you?"

As dignity and respect and Love  would do..waiting to be invited. God is coming to tell them the Good News! and they couldn't hear it. Their sin blocked GOD from them  Not the other way around.

For centuries God has been in the mud with us. slowly leading us. God called Ezekiel and he said no i wont prophesy ..So God Concedes and let Ezekiel be a living parable for the Israelites to see.

He was afraid (not trusting GOD and a blatant disobedience) Ezekiel had a Vision of Heaven even!

I see God lowering and lowering and lowering Himself to reach man. Men of violence and war.... even dying for the very people that was killing them and mocking them.

Yet FORIVING them at the exact same time! What unutterable Love we have here Folks!

None of this is a grand display as an act of manipulation..It is God being HIM ...and understanding our  individual emotional spiritual makeup.  Working within the Culture of child sacrifices of the Canaanites during Abraham's Life. Workin within the society that judges women for bearing or not bearing children  (men blamin the women ) . Working for a Culture that values slavery. Working for a Culture that covets other nations for having a King. And if God is going to Allow a King out of their hardness of heart. GOD  will use this as an Illustration as a Type of KING OF KINGS!.. And even the 2nd Child of ill gotten gain spread God's wisdom and riches and greatness so much the reputation had the Queen of Sheba come to learn about GOD!

It is a great illustration of how God works with us sinners.

This facet of LOVE HIMSELF extends to places we don't even realize. This facet as well as the other facets of God's Love wins our hearts over to HIM. Do some take advantage of this Grace?

Yes.

that is an individual choice

But God keeps pouring it on.

HE will do anything to reach you and me. Anything!

[drops mic]

 

 

 

 

[Wingnut]

well here goes!

we sin so much as natural sinners as the day is long even after converted to HIM.

Every selfish act

Every time we have a thought about another that is not the one Opinion that GOd has for them (i.e. I don't condemn them and I love them And I died to save them).

Every time we checkout or go into fantasy and not be present for someone.

Every time we envy or lust or have anxious thoughts.

Every time we want in first or the bigger slice.

Every minutia of every thought that Doesn't Put God first or to love on every person we meet when it is not convenient.

From the huge lifestyle choices of spending money on the latest gadgetry or latest fashion or hoarding more than you need

to the tiniest guilty pleasure of winning arguments and trying to be right all the time..

It is all sin that we don't even count as such.. but breaks THE TWO Commandments that Jesus shares.

The Title of this OP ends with."..the List is Long"

We have no idea how sinful we really are and we have no idea How gracious GOD is with us every moment that we breath out judgement or rude comments or fault finding or an accusation.

(ever see that here?..you think they cry on the pillow after every post of that nature.. and then do it again?)

From our thoughts to our disapproving eyes to our proud look.

The list is so long and insidious we don't have the mental complexity  to confess every night or to even know how much an innocent comment we made actually hurt someone.

We are sinners who sin like breathing. And some of us even have the ignorant audacity to think we have overcome so much that we count the sin on two hands for the day and be pretty proud we are closer to GOD and almost ready to be translated? I met them. They brag at prayer meetings.

The closer we draw to GOD the more sinful we realize we are and yet at the same time (if u have a clear View of HIM) ..How Much HE loves us anyways and already Forgiven no matter what we selfishly think or what  we have done or said thoughtlessly or an impulse we acted on..

God doesn't fixate on our sins. We do!

God is so good and so patient and so beautiful that He is called LOVE..He is not called a God of love..he is summed up as LOVE and that love is personified by JESUS CHRIST and even spelled out by Paul.

Love does not keep track of Wrongs ! Cor 13:15

It is a facet of LOVE!

............................................

Changes Gears

God does not turn away when we sin. We do. When God showed up in the cool of the day for the evening face to face relational conversations they ran! God knew where they were and yet called out "Where are you?"

As dignity and respect and Love  would do..waiting to be invited. God is coming to tell them the Good News! and they couldn't hear it. Their sin blocked GOD from them  Not the other way around.

For centuries God has been in the mud with us. slowly leading us. God called Ezekiel and he said no i wont prophesy ..So God Concedes and let Ezekiel be a living parable for the Israelites to see.

He was afraid (not trusting GOD and a blatant disobedience) Ezekiel had a Vision of Heaven even!

I see God lowering and lowering and lowering Himself to reach man. Men of violence and war.... even dying for the very people that was killing them and mocking them.

Yet FORIVING them at the exact same time! What unutterable Love we have here Folks!

None of this is a grand display as an act of manipulation..It is God being HIM ...and understanding our  individual emotional spiritual makeup.  Working within the Culture of child sacrifices of the Canaanites during Abraham's Life. Workin within the society that judges women for bearing or not bearing children  (men blamin the women ) . Working for a Culture that values slavery. Working for a Culture that covets other nations for having a King. And if God is going to Allow a King out of their hardness of heart. GOD  will use this as an Illustration as a Type of KING OF KINGS!.. And even the 2nd Child of ill gotten gain spread God's wisdom and riches and greatness so much the reputation had the Queen of Sheba come to learn about GOD!

It is a great illustration of how God works with us sinners.

This facet of LOVE HIMSELF extends to places we don't even realize. This facet as well as the other facets of God's Love wins our hearts over to HIM. Do some take advantage of this Grace?

Yes.

that is an individual choice

But God keeps pouring it on.

HE will do anything to reach you and me. Anything!

[drops mic]

 

 

 

 

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on any forum.  Amen and Amen!

[pnattmbtc]

gfc:God does not turn away when we sin. We do. When God showed up in the cool of the day for the evening face to face relational conversations they ran! God knew where they were and yet called out "Where are you?"

As dignity and respect and Love  would do..waiting to be invited. God is coming to tell them the Good News! and they couldn't hear it. Their sin blocked GOD from them  Not the other way around.

 I learned this from Ty Gibson's book "See With New Eyes".  That is, the idea that sin changes us (specifically how we vie God), but doesn't change God.  He's still as gracious, kind, compassionate as ever.

God is so misunderstood and so misrepresented, but it just rolls off Him like water off a duck.  Makes me think of the statement from the Spirit of Prophecy that Christ was nether elated by applause or dejected by censure.

[Wingnut]

What I so like about GayatfootofCross's post is his pointing out how tolerant God is of our ENORMOUS and ONGOING sinfulness.

Many folks give testimonials about how they were drug addicts, and were sinners till they found Christ, cleaned up their lives, and now they are these hugely improved church goers.

GayatfootofCross is putting his finger on a problem that even the very best Christian is still hugely sinful and offensive to God, even AFTER conversion.  Just because we have accepted Christ does not mean that the following has changed

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The trouble with us Christians is that we clean up a few areas of our lives, attend church, keep the sabbath, believe a few doctrines, and lose sight of what GayatfootofCross is pointing out which is the verse above Gen 6:5.

We are very irritating to God, even as Christians. What is so irritating to God is that we Christians are smug in our righteousness viz. the few things we do such as tithe and keep the Sabbath.  This is what the message to the Laodiceans is about.  We Christians think we are in need of nothing.

We Christians sometimes love to beat ourselves up.  I am not into self flagellation. Self-flagellation makes it all about us yet once more.  Instead it is all about God, and His kindness.

I even think we condemn ourselves for the wrong reasons - such as not being mission orientated enough.  GayatfootofCross better than I can, tells us what we should examine which is offensive to God.

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Wingnut

[pnattmbtc]

What I so like about GayatfootofCross's post is his pointing out how tolerant God is of our ENORMOUS and ONGOING sinfulness.

Many folks give testimonials about how they were drug addicts, and were sinners till they found Christ, cleaned up their lives, and now they are these hugely improved church goers.

GayatfootofCross is putting his finger on a problem that even the very best Christian is still hugely sinful and offensive to God, even AFTER conversion.  Just because we have accepted Christ does not mean that the following has changed

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The trouble with us Christians is that we clean up a few areas of our lives, attend church, keep the sabbath, believe a few doctrines, and lose sight of what GayatfootofCross is pointing out which is the verse above Gen 6:5.

We are very irritating to God, even as Christians. What is so irritating to God is that we Christians are smug in our righteousness viz. the few things we do such as tithe and keep the Sabbath.  This is what the message to the Laodiceans is about.  We Christians think we are in need of nothing.

We Christians sometimes love to beat ourselves up.  I am not into self flagellation. Self-flagellation makes it all about us yet once more.  Instead it is all about God, and His kindness.

I even think we condemn ourselves for the wrong reasons - such as not being mission orientated enough.  GayatfootofCross better than I can, tells us what we should examine which is offensive to God.

 

 

 

Are you talking about a "holier-than-thou" attitude being offensive to God?  Or something else?

[GayatfootofCross]

 I learned this from Ty Gibson's book "See With New Eyes".  That is, the idea that sin changes us (specifically how we vie God), but doesn't change God.  He's still as gracious, kind, compassionate as ever.

God is so misunderstood and so misrepresented, but it just rolls off Him like water off a duck.  Makes me think of the statement from the Spirit of Prophecy that Christ was nether elated by applause or dejected by censure.

 

I even think we condemn ourselves for the wrong reasons - such as not being mission orientated enough.  GayatfootofCross better than I can, tells us what we should examine which is offensive to God.

 

 

You are so kind and thanku for that!

Wingnut! GBU! and pnattmbtc!

I am so glad you understand what this thread is saying. It wore me to share that post that u dared me to try again. When I reflect or talk or write or read of This Wonderouse Being..I am lifted up from my self fixation or  fixing on others and see once again ....Heaven/HIM/Love.

What would it be like if we brought HIS goodness for me n you-  unto others ..no matter what they look like to us. The Church would burst!

P.S. it was late when i posted and went to sleep with God's Goodness in my heart. Which does not always happen. So ruled by my emotions!

..and whether i feel like it or not ...God is Dancing over me with Singing!

thanku for the Challenge, Wingnut!

Edited October 21, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[Wingnut]

Are you talking about a "holier-than-thou" attitude being offensive to God?  Or something else?

Its about the pitiful state of all men, and how much God loves us, through His goodness, not ours.

[Wingnut]

 

You are so kind and thanku for that!

Wingnut! GBU! and pnattmbtc!

I am so glad you understand what this thread is saying. It wore me to share that post that u dared me to try again. When I reflect or talk or write or read of This Wonderouse Being..I am lifted up from my self fixation or  fixing on others and see once again ....Heaven/HIM/Love.

What would it be like if we brought HIS goodness for me n you-  unto others ..no matter what they look like to us. The Church would burst!

P.S. it was late when i posted and went to sleep with God's Goodness in my heart. Which does not always happen. So ruled by my emotions!

..and whether i feel like it or not ...God is Dancing over me with Singing!

thanku for the Challenge, Wingnut!

I can tell that you were inspired when you wrote that.

Your post was a rare glimpse into the way God thinks.

I have printed your post and filed it in my "Important papers" file.

[Wingnut]

Look at Ps 23 for an example of the goodness of God towards sheep who are relatively stupid.

I have spent half an hour around sheep in my life, and that time was spent running away from a sheep which was trying its best to butt me.  

Terrifying 

So I am not in a real good position to relate to Ps 23.

But I do have a cat, so I relate to being a cat-owner.  Cats are a bit like sheep, just harder to herd.

The point is that the cat owner/shepherd loves and cares for his animals because of his own goodness, not because of any intrinsic goodness on the animal's part.  

My current cat has issues.  He was obtained from an animal shelter - a rescue cat.  I went to the shelter looking for a black and white cat.  They did not have one.  So less than ideal, I next looked for a black cat. R chose me, I did not choose him.  He was the friendliest cat in a huge cage filled with cats.

I had brought a cage, but they insisted I take a stronger one.  I wanted to pick him up, but they insisted on doing that.

On getting R home, I discovered why.  He would not allow one to pick him up, and he was quite wild and may have escaped from my cage.

R obviously had not been properly socialised as a kitten.  In retrospect, I think he was in a cage where they kept all the wilder cats.  Like a maximum security prison.

The first few days he spent hiding away, even though he was trying to be friendly.

To this day he does not take being disrespected and has spilt a lot of my families blood by scratching us when we tease or move him against his will.

Also, he is not black, but in sunlight a dark browny-black.

And his front and back claws do not retract like normal cats.  They permanently stick out, so you hear a tick-tick as he walks on a hard floor, just like one hears with dogs.

And his canines are longer than normal cats, giving him a sabre-toothed tiger look in that they protrude from his upper jaw.

He is very spoilt and will only eat fresh fish - no pellets.

This cat has very little going for him intrinsically and objectively.

But we love him.  We have loved most of the bad personality traits out of him.  The family are forever asking "Where is R?" if we have not seen him for a while.  My family occasionally point out R's flaws, but I am blind to these.  

Here then is my point.  We love this cat possibly more because he had/has so many issues.

I think God loves us so much because we had/have so little going for us intrinsically.  

And we all are rescue creatures.  My cat has long forgotten what I saved him from, including possible death.

At night he will even poke his wet nose into my sleeping face and demand that I feed him.  What a cheek.

But I get up, switch on the light, microwave him some frozen fish, and stagger back to bed.

 

The LORD truly is my Shepherd.  He loves me in exactly the same way.  And He loves all of you in exactly the same way.

[Wingnut]

Another thing one gets from GayatfootofCross's post is this...

We long standing Christians go to church thinking we are pretty OK, just needing a tweek here or there.

His post points out that there is nothing right with us, and in everything we (still) need to change.  

Our friends, spouses and others we mistreat, ignore, shout at, are rude to - they all know we need to change.  But not us.

How comfortable it is to be blind.

[GayatfootofCross]

Another thing one gets from GayatfootofCross's post is this...

We long standing Christians go to church thinking we are pretty OK, just needing a tweek here or there.

His post points out that there is nothing right with us, and in everything we (still) need to change.  

Our friends, spouses and others we mistreat, ignore, shout at, are rude to - they all know we need to change.  But not us.

How comfortable it is to be blind.

I have a wonderful SDA friend who we (my Gay bubby) are very close to.. It was her birthday so we drove down the mountain into the valley and yonder to meet at a Indian buffet (75% vegetarian).

We know secrets about each other and trust each other. Well anyway...As long as I have known her she struggles with drinking coffee and it has come up from time to time. There is self abnegation over it.

It wears her down. She feels like she is a Good Daughter of God when she goes throughout the day without going to Starbucks.  We even are happy for her good days and affirm her in this.

But the days when she falls into sin of drinking coffee ..she is angry at self for days and gets real depressed. I get that regarding ! ..my food hording issues

Since we are so close to her we know the other stuff too. Family secrets and skeletons in the closet. Resentment towards her older sisters (she is the youngest) and it comes out in their relationships with one another. Always anxious about money (spendin money on starbucks?)  and spends money online for the latest modest fashions and judging everyone who eats meat (that comes up alot). has real issues with ladies at the pulpit (mission spotlight.scripture prayer,special music) wearing earrings. She once told me it was a sin to wear pantyhose cause it means the ladies want to seduce the guys at church. I had no idea.I thought it was to keep the legs warm and to look good. Besides ... Women don't even wear them anymore in Today's fashion. She wants to get her neck lifted (she is a gorgeous 62 year old woman). Cause her Father ridiculed her Mother's neck. Lotta money for that.... I don't see anything wrong with her neck.

We adore her and she is the classic F__hag or a Fruit fly and loves spending time with us gay men and not worrying about us hitting on her. We have known her since the year 2000 and I even saw her in my home church in the mid 80's and was so infatuated with her beauty I couldn't speak to her.

She doesn't owe us a confessional list of what she goes to God about at night. All we hear is about the struggle with coffee and oh yeah.. Chocolate ( i think she hates herself more for that)! It is easy to keep the chat above the water and at the shallow end of the pool of conversation. We get that!!! ....  But the point I am making is we can really focus on a few sins and somehow the commands of how we to look upon others is not even on our radar. We look at the SDA culture and compare ourselves (my baptism Certificate  has a NO DRINKIN COFFEE thing in the back) with it . Keepin the Sabbath and Mornin devotions and not eating pork as some sort of Meter of holiness..without tender regard for people not like us or outside our circle. Voting with our pocketbooks and not at all for How Jesus looks at the poor or widows or the homeless or the alien at our borders..is an example. We sin like breathing and we dog ourselves with watching TV too much one night out of boredom or missin time with GOD one morning  or splurgin and getting a Milkshake.

The focus is GOD's love and non condemnation  for us..Let that fill our hearts ..so we can actually share JOY with each other. not misery for not measuring up.

 

God bless us all!

Edited October 24, 2015 by GayatfootofCross