Wingnut Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I have a wonderful SDA friend who we (my Gay bubby) are very close to.. It was her birthday so we drove down the mountain into the valley and yonder to meet at a Indian buffet (75% vegetarian). We know secrets about each other and trust each other. Well anyway...As long as I have known her she struggles with drinking coffee and it has come up from time to time. There is self abnegation over it. It wears her down. She feels like she is a Good Daughter of God when she goes throughout the day without going to Starbucks. We even are happy for her good days and affirm her in this. But the days when she falls into sin of drinking coffee ..she is angry at self for days and gets real depressed. I get that regarding ! ..my food hording issues Since we are so close to her we know the other stuff too. Family secrets and skeletons in the closet. Resentment towards her older sisters (she is the youngest) and it comes out in their relationships with one another. Always anxious about money (spendin money on starbucks?) and spends money online for the latest modest fashions and judging everyone who eats meat (that comes up alot). has real issues with ladies at the pulpit (mission spotlight.scripture prayer,special music) wearing earrings. She once told me it was a sin to wear pantyhose cause it means the ladies want to seduce the guys at church. I had no idea.I thought it was to keep the legs warm and to look good. Besides ... Women don't even wear them anymore in Today's fashion. She wants to get her neck lifted (she is a gorgeous 62 year old woman). Cause her Father ridiculed her Mother's neck. Lotta money for that.... I don't see anything wrong with her neck. We adore her and she is the classic F__hag or a Fruit fly and loves spending time with us gay men and not worrying about us hitting on her. We have known her since the year 2000 and I even saw her in my home church in the mid 80's and was so infatuated with her beauty I couldn't speak to her. She doesn't owe us a confessional list of what she goes to God about at night. All we hear is about the struggle with coffee and oh yeah.. Chocolate ( i think she hates herself more for that)! It is easy to keep the chat above the water and at the shallow end of the pool of conversation. We get that!!! .... But the point I am making is we can really focus on a few sins and somehow the commands of how we to look upon others is not even on our radar. We look at the SDA culture and compare ourselves (my baptism Certificate has a NO DRINKIN COFFEE thing in the back) with it . Keepin the Sabbath and Mornin devotions and not eating pork as some sort of Meter of holiness..without tender regard for people not like us or outside our circle. Voting with our pocketbooks and not at all for How Jesus looks at the poor or widows or the homeless or the alien at our borders..is an example. We sin like breathing and we dog ourselves with watching TV too much one night out of boredom or missin time with GOD one morning or splurgin and getting a Milkshake. The focus is GOD's love and non condemnation for us..Let that fill our hearts ..so we can actually share JOY with each other. not misery for not measuring up. God bless us all! I have a verse for your friend. One of my favourites which I apply scrupulously. Romans 14:22 KJV 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth . When last did you hear a sermon where that was the scripture of the day, or our reading comes from... I have kept the sabbath from a teen. And it was a bit of a drag back then because I was somewhat Pharisaical about it. I viewed God as an austere God back then. But over time, my view about God changed to see He is a really nice Being, not one to cross, but like the nicest person you can think of, and then ten times better. I saw that He was not fixated on the minutia of my life. In fact He was not worried about anything I did just so long as this did not get between us. I drink coffee and used to drink alcohol, and can sometimes watch 12 hours of TV a day and enjoy every moment of it. I don't feel a need to pray first thing in the morning, but rather when I am more awake after a few cups of coffee. I know that our friendship is rock solid. So if I don't want to spend time with Him first thing in the morning, He understands. He knows I will crave Him some time that day. I wish your friend could see how much God loves her. I wish she could see that if God and her could sit down today, He would be happy to meet her in Starbucks for two of the best cups of coffee in the galaxy, if that would make her happy. And God would order a big slice of Black Forrest cake to go with that coffee. However, if a person feels huge guilt over coffee - that guilt creates a barrier or chasm between her and God. This person is doing what Adam and Eve did, viz hide from God and feel guilty. Now coffee is a problem to God. Since I have no problem with coffee (or TV, or chocolate, or going to a restaurant for a meal on the sabbath etc.) all these do not defile my conscience or create a feeling of guilt which would make me want to run from God. The saddest thing about your story is all the things she worries about things which you know are not issues with God. But you are unable to help her till one day she "comes to herself" and realise the very kind nature of God. About that time, she will examine every thought and intent of her heart, and realise that it is only evil continually, and want to make changes NOT to her coffee, chocolate or spending habits, but to her far worse problems of fault-finding in others, where there frankly is no fault. Christ hung out with riff raft without finding fault with them for their alcohol consumption, earings or stockings. This is why the riff raft found Christ so attractive. Prostitutes massaged His feet in public and He was not repulsed by them as the Pharisees were. Going on to perfection is not about food and drink. It's about catching every thought which despises others, and saying to oneself - I cannot think like this one second longer. I like the description of where you live in N California. It sounds almost as good as where I live. It takes a very good God to create such a good world. One day I plan to write a post on how we could have been born into a grey, colourless earth, smelling of sulphur, where every rock was jagged, every plant and animal spiky and poisonous, where the best food tasted like vomit, and where sores and flies covered one's body so that there was no rest day and night. etc. etc. etc. Instead God gives us everything to enjoy because He loves us, and does not condemn us. So let's enjoy it without guilt. Edited October 24, 2015 by Wingnut GayatfootofCross 1 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted October 24, 2015 Author Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Romans 14:22 KJV 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth . Hi again! Thanku for that verse. I need to press a few points about my amazing friend. She reads EGW stuff alot more than the bible and Early Writings is her goto in her seeking GOD's will for the day. And her comfort. She is waiting for the Latter Rain in order to have her overcome coffee and chocolate. Meanwhile a lot of self chastisement. She told me eons ago,that EGW says if you eat meat you will not see heaven. And since she knows my diet is not perfect (as well as my Bubby's) I think she judges us unfit for heaven.She would never say such a thing. But I have figured out a long time ago if they say something about others... you can be sure they say it about me. We still love her so much. Thursday when we took her out for her Birthday we went to an Indian Buffet and they had goat as one of the dishes. I innocently pointed it out to her. I have never seen 'goat' at a buffet. And i smiled said "poor goat". She quietly laughed and chimed "poor goat". Then I said.. "I wonder if JESUS ate goat?" then I thought about it some more in a split second and said to her "Well, Jesus ate lamb!" and she was appalled and said " JESUS ate lamb?" and i said "well yeah At Passover they ate lamb at least once a year."and she is still tryin to absorb this and said again " Jesus ate lamb?" and i said that "Jesus grew up a jew where they ate lamb and probably goat" I saw it was vexing her so i dropped it. When we got to the table together I wanted to press it more but i knew my heart was turning at that point. So what started off as an innocent observation at the buffet can turn to a bible study with the intent to blow her out of the water. Not good not good. I dropped it. I could have waxed beautifully on about Jesus ate fish too even after He resurrected and went to heaven. but my intention would'nt be to edify but to prove her WROOOOOOOOONG! As good friends as we are. And love talking about GOD together....Sometimes I think she thinks me and my Buddy are not good enough Christians to go heaven. As much as I stress faith in HIM and His Righteousness..It doesn't fit her narrative. I'm gay and ate goat in front of her. BTW... i don't have a problem when someone drinks coffee. I don't think that way.... Judging what people eat or drink. As an indoctrinated lil SDA Boy yes... but i put childish things behind me decades ago.. I don't drink coffee myself and never have. And i don't wear pantyhose either to church to try to seduce the men. So i guess i look pretty HOLY to my friend on some points. Edited October 24, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
LifeHiscost Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 Hi again! Thanku for that verse. Reading of God's and His Son's promises as well as His instructions, on how to be able to insure those will both always be ours' in the future were reflected in this comment from a young person on the Seven Thunders program, drawn from the Scriptures and made while I was reading the last two posts. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.....Matthew 7 As to the prostitute dragged before Jesus in order to find fault with Him, the principle Jesus practiced seems to be rather plain. 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more..... John 8 Seems clear to me there are three principles espoused here, perhaps the major one being: 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen......Ephesians 3 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
GayatfootofCross Posted October 25, 2015 Author Posted October 25, 2015 ? Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Wingnut Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 Hi again! Thanku for that verse. I need to press a few points about my amazing friend. She reads EGW stuff alot more than the bible and Early Writings is her goto in her seeking GOD's will for the day. And her comfort. She is waiting for the Latter Rain in order to have her overcome coffee and chocolate. Meanwhile a lot of self chastisement. Thursday when we took her out for her Birthday we went to an Indian Buffet and they had goat as one of the dishes. I innocently pointed it out to her. I have never seen 'goat' at a buffet. And i smiled said "poor goat". She quietly laughed and chimed "poor goat". Then I said.. "I wonder if JESUS ate goat?" then I thought about it some more in a split second and said to her "Well, Jesus ate lamb!" and she was appalled and said " JESUS ate lamb?" and i said "well yeah At Passover they ate lamb at least once a year."and she is still tryin to absorb this and said again " Jesus ate lamb?" and i said that "Jesus grew up a jew where they ate lamb and probably goat"... I come from a church background with similar taboos. It was even taboo to celebrate birthdays, or even wish someone "happy birthday". These were big deals and could produce a lot of guilt. We were not allowed to vote, and doctors were only for the weak in faith. I don't remember ever questioning the validity of these taboos. As good friends as we are. And love talking about GOD together....Sometimes I think she thinks me and my Buddy are not good enough Christians to go heaven. As much as I stress faith in HIM and His Righteousness..It doesn't fit her narrative. I'm gay and ate goat in front of her. BTW... i don't have a problem when someone drinks coffee. I don't think that way.... Judging what people eat or drink. As an indoctrinated lil SDA Boy yes... but i put childish things behind me decades ago.. I don't drink coffee myself and never have. And i don't wear pantyhose either to church to try to seduce the men. So i guess i look pretty HOLY to my friend on some points. It is hard to imagine someone never having tasted coffee, I don't advocate you trying it by the way, since who needs any addictions? I just don't like waking up to a cup of ..... water??? These days it is almost impossible to induce feelings of guilt in me over what I call trivia. After reading Dale Carnegie's "How to stop worrying and start living" I made this book my second "bible". And a close cousin to worry is guilt. Both leave you feeling disquieted. So I make sure I don't allow guilt to stick to me. It drives some of my friends crazy that they cannot manipulate me with guilt. And I am careful not to promise to do anything. I tell them that I don't make promises, I make "arrangements". And arrangements can always be changed. I am totally opposed to the SDA vows, for the above reason. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted October 25, 2015 Author Posted October 25, 2015 I come from a church background with similar taboos. It was even taboo to celebrate birthdays, or even wish someone "happy birthday". These were big deals and could produce a lot of guilt. We were not allowed to vote, and doctors were only for the weak in faith. I don't remember ever questioning the validity of these taboos. It is hard to imagine someone never having tasted coffee, I don't advocate you trying it by the way, since who needs any addictions? I just don't like waking up to a cup of ..... water??? These days it is almost impossible to induce feelings of guilt in me over what I call trivia. After reading Dale Carnegie's "How to stop worrying and start living" I made this book my second "bible". And a close cousin to worry is guilt. Both leave you feeling disquieted. So I make sure I don't allow guilt to stick to me. It drives some of my friends crazy that they cannot manipulate me with guilt. And I am careful not to promise to do anything. I tell them that I don't make promises, I make "arrangements". And arrangements can always be changed. I am totally opposed to the SDA vows, for the above reason. Wingnut! you mean you grew up in that kind of repressive SDA environment also! Some here don't relate! I am glad you hear me! I have tasted coffee yes.. many times. I like cream and sugar in it! But i don't drink it. lol I don't think about drinking it. I do,however drink water. I love water! First thing i do in the mornis drink water. Us mountain folks have great water up here. It is not a christian thing to like water or not like coffee.. We gravitate where we gravitate. Some drink water cause they know it is good for them like eating their vegies. etc etc etc I used to drink booze alot. It got so bad that i was threatened to be kicked out of the house cause i got drunk so much.Cause I liked drinking so much. I also grew up smoking cigarettes . My whole family smoked! They car trip when we couldnt breath fresh air as children. In the 1970's..it seemed like everyone smoked! Restaurants,, Airplanes,Grocery Stores, I love smoking pot and here in the woods i have neighbors who grow it openly in the woods ..where we are! it is time to bring in the maryjane sheeves. It is October..so be done with it! And i can smell the ripe budding buds from my front yard. And my Buddy too! We make it a habit to not get it and not smoke it. It is not easy. They are green and potent and we can tell by the smell! But it does not help my walk with Jesus. Drinking and drugs are not good for my walk. It can close my heart to GOD! Never closes God from us! amen! I don't even include drugs and strong drink in my testimony anymore..it is about the heart change. Not the symptoms. GBU! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Wingnut Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 Wingnut! you mean you grew up in that kind of repressive SDA environment also! Some here don't relate! I am glad you hear me! I have tasted coffee yes.. many times. I like cream and sugar in it! But i don't drink it. lol I don't think about drinking it. I do,however drink water. I love water! First thing i do in the mornis drink water. Us mountain folks have great water up here. It is not a christian thing to like water or not like coffee.. We gravitate where we gravitate. Some drink water cause they know it is good for them like eating their vegies. etc etc etc I used to drink booze alot. It got so bad that i was threatened to be kicked out of the house cause i got drunk so much.Cause I liked drinking so much. I also grew up smoking cigarettes . My whole family smoked! They car trip when we couldnt breath fresh air as children. In the 1970's..it seemed like everyone smoked! Restaurants,, Airplanes,Grocery Stores, I love smoking pot and here in the woods i have neighbors who grow it openly in the woods ..where we are! it is time to bring in the maryjane sheeves. It is October..so be done with it! And i can smell the ripe budding buds from my front yard. And my Buddy too! We make it a habit to not get it and not smoke it. It is not easy. They are green and potent and we can tell by the smell! But it does not help my walk with Jesus. Drinking and drugs are not good for my walk. It can close my heart to GOD! Never closes God from us! amen! I don't even include drugs and strong drink in my testimony anymore..it is about the heart change. Not the symptoms. GBU! I have never tried drugs, and don't intend to, unless I have chronic pain and terminal cancer. Then I would get out the hydroponics equipment and grow my own. I have herbs like catnip, oregano and thyme growing on my window sill hydroponically. But I hate the thought of becoming a slave to some addiction, so I have no desire for drugs. Luckily the Lord made it easy for me to give up alcohol. After decades of drinking and finding it made me relaxed and happy, booze was just making me sleepy and on occasion dizzy. So it was no biggie to give it up completely. The theory goes that drugs eventually turn people into losers. Another theory is that losers turn to drugs. If folks can find things to occupy their time, which give meaning to their lives, then they have no need for drugs. That is why I think it is great that so many youngsters are hooked on video gaming. It keeps them away from drugs, sex and rock and roll . I personally avoid computer games because I think they are pointless. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think drugs improve one's video gaming skills. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote
Wingnut Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 here in the woods i have neighbors who grow it openly in the woods ..where we are! it is time to bring in the maryjane sheeves. It is October..so be done with it! And i can smell the ripe budding buds from my front yard. And my Buddy too! We make it a habit to not get it and not smoke it. It is not easy. They are green and potent and we can tell by the smell! All I can say is that this must be a huge temptation. Strength! GayatfootofCross 1 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted October 25, 2015 Author Posted October 25, 2015 All I can say is that this must be a huge temptation. Strength! thanku! amen! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Members phkrause Posted October 25, 2015 Members Posted October 25, 2015 It seems from your posts Gay, that your friend has not read the Bible? Maybe you should suggest she read this wonderful book! Just a thought. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
GayatfootofCross Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 It seems from your posts Gay, that your friend has not read the Bible? Maybe you should suggest she read this wonderful book! Just a thought. :) "read the bible! My Friend,please,please,oh please" "Put 'Early Writings' down for one second!" I try to space out my suggestions..she is my equal. Only thing I can do is laud my favorite passages. And my hope in the Word. My Buddy and I always talk about the focus to be on Jesus. She now is carried away by the Pope being the Antichrist cause Walter Veith(?) has some thing up about the Popes hand gestures while speaking to our Congress. And While I was talking to her about how our hearts cannot internalize the constant fear alarmist religiosity..she was furiously trying to find that pic of the pope on her iPhone. She showed it to me in triumph hoping i would jump on the bandwagon with her. Ignoring everything else I was saying. Well anyhoo.. These things come up from time to time. I love talking about God is exactly like Jesus.And it does warm our hearts together. But it seems like as long as we have known her it goes from one tangent to another. The latest thing comin down the pike... Almost wanting the new tidbit to help her finally overcome. I understand the burden of sin. Taking our eyes off Jesus does us in. # i like 'Early Writings. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Wingnut Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 And While I was talking to her about how our hearts cannot internalize the constant fear alarmist religiosity..she was furiously trying to find that pic of the pope on her iPhone. She showed it to me in triumph hoping i would jump on the bandwagon with her. Ignoring everything else I was saying. Didn't 2 Tim 4:3 speak about people having itching thumbs GayatfootofCross 1 Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 And While I was talking to her about how our hearts cannot internalize the constant fear alarmist religiosity..she was furiously trying to find that pic of the pope on her iPhone. lol (in a melancholy way) GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 And While I was talking to her about how our hearts cannot internalize the constant fear alarmist religiosity..she was furiously trying to find that pic of the pope on her iPhone. Just to reassure you here. I know her and folks like her. What you and I see as "constant fear alarmist religiosity" which would drain us - this type of alarmism is like coffee to her type. It actually energises them. Its pointless telling them to relax. They like the buzz that the latest bit of news/prophecy speculation gives them. And just like coffee, it wears off, and they have to go back for some more prophecy Starbucks. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 Just to reassure you here. I know her and folks like her. What you and I see as "constant fear alarmist religiosity" which would drain us - this type of alarmism is like coffee to her type. It actually energises them. Its pointless telling them to relax. They like the buzz that the latest bit of news/prophecy speculation gives them. And just like coffee, it wears off, and they have to go back for some more prophecy Starbucks. I think you hit the nail on the head. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
LifeHiscost Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 In fact He was not worried about anything I did just so long as this did not get between us. Not having read all of what led to that comment, I still am of the opinion that while our Father may be able to work all our mistakes around to cancel our own possibility of losing out on salvation, but His knowledge of those who will be lost to eternity as a result of our mistakes (known sin or ignorance as a viable excuse) this knowledge below is well born out when we consider what the eating from the tree of good and evil cost the Holy Family, clear up to the present time. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.....Hebrews 6 I find no time in history where there is no risk involved in straying off the narrow path. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.....Matthew 7 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
GayatfootofCross Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 15 minutes of anyone's time! THE GOSPEL IN CHAIRS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnj52gaauBs Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
LifeHiscost Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 con·ces·sion kənˈseSHən/ noun noun: concession; plural noun: concessions 1. a thing that is granted, especially in response to demands; a thing conceded. "the strikers returned to work having won some concessions" compromise, allowance, exception "the government made several concessions The government of God allowed the Israelites to have a king in place of the King that released them from the slavery of Pharoah, in the process selling themselves back into the slavery of the the world's methods. 6 And said, O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee, my God: for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens. 7 Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day. 8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the Lord our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.....Ezra 9 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
GayatfootofCross Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 This guy is great at sharing the problem and Solution and i connect the Grace it fleshes out with A God of Concessions though i have idea how to explain the connection... ugh! The God of Concessions is how anyone of us Stand before HIM .. cause of Grace driven by what LOVE naturally does! Is Evangelical Christianity The Wizard Behind the Curtain of America’s Moral And Spiritual Decline? Posted on August 8, 2015 by ckratzer http://chriskratzer.com/is-evangelical-christianity-the-wizard-behind-the-curtain-of-americas-moral-and-spiritual-decline/ I am not a fan of being on the communicating end of negative things. Most people don’t enjoy that role, I certainly don’t. As one who has to field a lot of critical knocks on my own door, I know what it feels like to be misunderstood, misrepresented, and criticized irresponsibly. So, as I write about things that are not so positive regarding Evangelical Christianity, I do so with much carefulness to avoid becoming a part of the problem, as I truly desire to be a part of the solution. As I address issues related to Evangelical Christianity in this writing, I am well aware that many Evangelicals, many of which I have as close friends, have wonderful hearts, do great things for Jesus, and are not aware of any harm in which they may or may not participate by being connected intimately or in part to Evangelical Christianity. That was true of me when I was an Evangelical pastor. In fact, I would suspect many Christians who would fall into the category of “Evangelical” don’t even realize it, nor have they considered any negative ramifications to the beliefs they hold and the Evangelical culture thereof. Yet, when I observe something so alarmingly and clearly wrong, harmful, and deceptive, I feel a responsibility to at least articulate what I see and believe. Not with a spirit of condemnation, but with one of deep concern. No one person or group is perfect. Certainly, not I. For so many years as an Evangelical, I didn’t realize what I was truly participating in and what its ramifications truly were in people’s lives. From as early as my boyhood sand box experiences, I have learned that many of the people who are repeatedly pointing at problems and things they don’t like from an aggressive, self-righteous posture are often those themselves who have something to conceal. From the bully on the playground to the podium pounding preacher, behind nearly every harsh, judging, fear-inducing, intimidating, and problem-pointing finger is often a Wizard of Oz like coward hiding behind a curtain, concealing the real issues. The overarching chorus of Evangelical Christianity for years has been that the world is bad, needs to repent, and become like them. They passionately declare their morals, beliefs, and standards are not only the foundation of America, but that which is needed to reverse, what is in their minds, a terrible, declining culture. There is an inner consensus among many Evangelicals that if people just believed, lived, and acted like them, America would be a much better place. Spokespersons and leaders of Evangelical Christianity such as Franklin Graham almost weekly, make public statements repeating this rehearsed theme that the world is bad, needs to repent, and become more like them in adopted values and lifestyle. A prevailing sentiment seems to suggest that if we would just return to the days of “Father Knows Best” where everything was seemingly simple and clean, things would be so much better. Many of these statements, communicated in many and various ways, are often textured with judgement, fear tactics, and condemnation of a world that, in their minds, is not so simple and clean anymore. The underlying message is, “we know best.” “We are right, you are wrong, we have it, you don’t; repent, turn to our Jesus, become one of us, or pay the price.” Like in a scene from The Wizard of Oz, from behind the curtain, as the room fills will smoke and the volume knobs of this rhetoric is turned up with deep, Darth Vader tones, many approach the microphone to communicate their displeasures and religious prescriptions at the world, all while declaring it to be “the Gospel.” Years ago, this Evangelical wizardry was directed against divorce and remarriage, later the issue became blacks marrying whites, today it’s homosexuality and gay marriage. All with the same battle cry, “we are right, you are wrong; repent, turn to our Jesus, think, believe and behave like us, or pay the price.” This has been the underlying missional/discipleship philosophy and posture of Evangelical Christianity for decades. “You are lost, we are found, our job is to get you to our Jesus and “disciple” you to think, believe, and behave like us.” The world is our project, people are a notch on the “got saved” belt. Baptism is an initiation rite, and membership is the entry way into our club. Of course, it’s never articulated like that, but having been an Evangelical pastor for many years, I know this to be true. This is their Gospel, this is their “salvation,” this is the Evangelical “vision.” In Evangelical Christian produced movies, tv shows, concerts, churches, books, and alike, this is the flavor of Gospel being communicated. Recently, many Evangelical Christians and leaders have turned up the heat on declaring that America is in desperate moral and spiritual decline. As they gaze out into the world and even within their own organizations and churches, they realize there is a growing number of people who don’t believe and behave as they prescribe. In their mind, the world has turned away from their brand of Jesus, Bible, and Church, and therefore is the cause of all things that are eroding our culture. With labels like “lost,” “sinner,” “progressive,” “liberal,” people who don’t fit their mold become the mission to change, and if resistant, become a kind of enemy. Yet, like in the The Wizard of Oz, things are not always as they appear. While smoke billowing Evangelical Christianity declares the world bad, those unlike them the source of blame, and the solution being to repent to their Jesus and learn to think, believe and behave like them, there is a coward pulling the strings behind a curtain. In fact, the one pointing fingers at all the problems in the world has in truth, ironically, become a major contributor to the existence of those problems. Yes, pull back the curtains and see for yourself, Evangelical Christianity is perhaps the greatest contributor to the moral and spiritual decline of America they so detest. Now, this a bold statement that will surely offend many and likely cost me in relationships and otherwise. But before you write me off, disown me, or label me a heretic, hear me out. God is love. He loves everyone unconditionally. Love is not a characteristic or attribute of God, it is who He is. God can do nothing else but love. Out of His nature, which is love, it is articulated in scripture that through Jesus (the personification of Love), the Old Covenant of Law given through Moses has been replaced with a New Covenant of Grace given through Jesus. As one writer described, “you are not under Law, but under Grace.” Romans 6:14b This is a cataclysmic, cosmic shift in how God relates to people and people relate to God. Yet, Evangelical Christianity is super slow to the party. It is a complete transition away from a conditional relationship with God and life that hinges on some level of our spiritual performance, and the ushering in of an unconditional relationship with God and life that is based solely on Christ’s performance. It is not just a move away from the letter of the Law, but the spirit of the Law as well. Let me repeat that, “it is not just a move away from the letter of the Law, but the spirit of the Law as well.” It’s not just Ten Commandments, Leviticus stuff, it’s any form of work, condemnation, judgement, performance expectation, condition, effort, or striving applied to any spiritual aspect of a person’s life. And let me add this, everything is spiritual. The Bible in its reading and understanding must be interpreted through this covenant of Grace, whose personification is Jesus. This new covenant of Grace began at the cross. Grace, with no mixture of the Law (or the spirit of the Law), received through faith, is the pure Gospel. And Faith, it’s not a work, effort, or doing, it is a rest. It is not a spiritual performance, it is a spiritual awakening to what Jesus has already done, without your faith, worthiness, or participation. It is not “faithfulness,” it is “faith.” And that faith, a gift from Jesus as well. Because of Grace, Jesus has not only done something for all people, but also to all people. Beyond having peace with God for eternity, Jesus has made all people into a new creation. At the cross, humanity became a finished work. It was one and done. Period. Jesus didn’t just die as a human, He died as humanity. The old you, was crucified with Christ. Salvation (wholeness) has come. As a new creation, you are the righteousness of Christ, holy, sanctified, forgiven (past, present, and future), justified, lacking no spiritual blessing. There is no work to be done on your life, you are completely complete. Grace has rendered spiritual growth as something you already are, not something you become or do. The Christian life is not about becoming something tomorrow you are not today through spiritual gymnastics, but about being more of who you already are because of Jesus, through believing. Your performance does not determine you identity, your identity determines your performance. Grace is the beginning and end of everything you are, do, and become. This is the Gospel, that your part is to realize you have no part, only believe. Anything less than this pure Grace Gospel, is Law. With this in mind, writers in the New Testament, vehemently described how mixing this Gospel of Grace with remnants, portions, or vibes of the Law is not just false and damaging, but evil. Any form of condemnation, work, spiritual performance, earning of intimacy with God, intolerance, judgment, personal striving, finger-pointing, or communication of a God who loves conditionally is to mix the pure Gospel of Grace with Law and to render it a means of death not salvation. “And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace” Galatians 5:4 For this writer, a minimal spiritual performance or act so innocent, symbolic, and simple as circumcision, reflected the presence of the Law and when mixed into a person’s life rendered them severed from Christ. Yikes! Sadly, knowingly or unknowingly, much of what Evangelical Christianity presents to believers and non believers in regards to the Gospel, discipleship, and the Christian life is a mixture of “Law” at best, if not pure Law. Many of them declare unconditional love with conditions, spiritual growth through personal obedience, sin overcoming through sin management, discipleship through behavior modification and doctrinal unity, and the Christian life an increasing level of personal devotion to Christ. I don’t care how you slice it or how much lipstick you put on that pig, it’s Law, Law, and more Law. What many Evangelicals declare as needing to have a “balance,” of Grace and Law, one can just hear many of the New Testament writers declaring, “B____T!” Not because it’s fun to be vulgar, but because of the ramifications of a death cocktail mixture of Grace with Law. Mix the Gospel with any amount, however small, of the Law, and guess what you have? Law. Let me bake you a cake, and drop a wee-little speck of poop into it. Just a smidgen. Don’t worry, you won’t notice. It’s fresh out the oven, you going to eat it? As one scripture writer discovered, the ministry of the Law is death and condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:7,9) That same writer also discovered that it is actually the Law that entices people to sin. (1 Corinthians 15:56) Yes, the Law… in letter or spirit is the great sin enticer; not pornography, Miley Cyrus, rap music, or Play Station. See first, the Law in all its forms, in letter or spirit, condemns. Find me a person with a sin problem and I will have found you a person with a condemnation problem. Second, the Law appeals to the flesh. The flesh, is not our evil lustful side as some would have us believe, it is actually when we attempt, through any kind of effort on our part to gain or receive from God something He has already freely given; salvation, forgiveness, intimacy, blessing, favor, righteousness, holiness, sanctification, and the list goes on and on. This is a futile, evil endeavor. It’s a dead end. First because God has already given completely that which is trying to be gained, and second, because you can’t gain, earn, or receive anything from God through your performance, effort, pursuit, pressing in, or actions, no matter how spiritual they may seem. To do so, is to fall from Grace and declare the cross as foolish and insufficient, and yourself as capable and worthy at some level or another. That is what it looks like to be deceived, to walk in darkness, to water-down the Law (as you think you can handle it), and therefore, to minimize and marginalize Grace (because you think you don’t completely need it). It is the height of anti-Christ. It is to be bewitched by another Gospel, which is no Gospel at all. And worst of all, it is to entice and imprison people to sin, hypocrisy, and a lifestyle thereof. The Evangelical prescription for sin is at best, a mixture of Gospel and Law. God loves you, BUT… you need to repent (which in their mind, wrongly means “to change”). Do these spiritual things, apply these formulas, attend these groups, solicit this accountability partner, press into this experience with God, say this prayer, read this book, partner with Jesus, attend this conference, take these steps, believe these beliefs, be all you can be for Jesus, follow these rules etc. etc. Problem is, it not only all doesn’t work, it all makes things worse. For much of Evangelical Christianity, the Gospel is “behavior modification” through some level of personal effort or spiritual performance. All of this, declaring the Law and packaging as the Gospel, and then wondering why people fall away and morals decline for both nonbelievers and believers. If you take the Law seriously, if you take Grace seriously, if you take the consequences of mixing any amount of Law with the Gospel of Grace, it is clear that much of Evangelical Christianity has actually been prescribing the cancer, not the cure; at best, withholding the cure. Whether they realize it or not, they have been baking cakes with [censored] in it, and then wondering why people are getting sick, spitting it out of their mouths, and not getting any better. All while some of them have the gaul to sprout their spiritual feathers, get mad, bark their religious rants, throw up their hands, and act so disgusted (and surprised) when they see a nation that, in their minds, is spiritually dying. Of course it is! That’s what happens when one supplies the cancer as the cure. That’s what happens when you feed people cakes with [censored] in them. A few years back, the Barna Research Group showed that the overall divorce rate among Evangelical themed denominations was between 27-34%, while the divorce rate among atheists… 21%. Evidently, in our country, you have a better chance at having a holy, Jesus-like life out of church than you do in it. If perhaps the largest Christian representation in America, Evangelical Christianity is engaging in the ministry of the Law, should we be surprised at the amount of spiritual decline we see in America? Should we be surprised that people are seemingly more enticed and imprisoned to sin now, more than ever? That’s what the Law does. Should we be surprised that Christians exposed to Evangelical Christianity don’t get better, and the world that is watching, has become disinterested and “done” with church. The truth is, the spiritual prescriptions of much of Evangelical Christianity entice and imprison people to sin, not free them. We can change nothing in ourselves or others. The Holy Spirit does that, and that through pure Grace, not Law or any mixture thereof. The very thing that many Evangelicals declare as too soft (Grace) is actually the one and only thing that has the teeth and grip to change anything. As one scripture writer discovered, “For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, teaching us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.” Titus 2:12 What teaches, what changes, what influences? Grace. Jesus mentioned that you can sense a certain amount of the quality of a spiritual thing by the fruit it bares. Much of Evangelical Christianity has sadly produced… 1) selfish, consumer minded Christians who believe that “church” is about meeting their particular needs. Thus, Christianity isn’t growing but is actually in severe decline as believers are continually shuffling around to whatever church has the best show and better meets their needs 2) Christians who believe the Bible is equal to Jesus/God and place their understanding of it over standing with people and declare their particular understanding to be “truly biblical.” 3) churches where Christians mainly talk amongst themselves and judge the world, believing they’re right and everyone just needs to become right like them 4) celebrity pastors and leaders who franchise church, their egos, and a performance-driven, hyped up perversion of the Gospel. 5) churches that might welcome a sinner or two into their mix as they look down upon them as their “mission”, but don’t truly “want” them unless they clean up and adopt their values and beliefs. 6) Christians who believe the Gospel is a mixture of Grace and Law, Jesus does His part, but one needs to do their part, or else. 7) Christians and Christian leaders who believe their job is to point out sin in the world, and declare that God loves people so much that if they don’t say a certain prayer and clean up their act, He will justly throw them into an eternity of torture by demons, flames, and a desire to die that will never be granted; calling it all… good news. In my humble opinion, no one is perfect, especially me, but that is no fruit. I believe much of Evangelical Christianity, particularly those who embody a more judgmental, prideful, elitist, legalistic, and performance-driven Christian flavor would do well to repent (which really means to “change your mind”) about Jesus, the Gospel, love, bible, the Christian life, sin, and Church so that these areas and their understanding thereof reflect the pure Grace of God and the finished work of Jesus on the cross. I believe much of Evangelical Christianity would do well to focus on modeling Jesus who is pure Grace and unconditional love. They would do well to stand with people over and above their biblical stances on the issues. They would do well to learn to rightly divide the word of God between the Old Testament and the New, interpreting all scripture through the lens of Grace as Jesus did. They would do well to move away from “hating the sin and loving the sinner,” and just loving people, period. They would do well to let the Holy Spirit discern and change people, and instead, concentrate on doing their job, which is to love people, unconditionally. They would do well to direct their finger pointing to the loveliness of Jesus, not to the ugliness they deem to see in people. They would do well to trust Grace to do what only Grace can do, which is most everything they think they are capable of doing and charge everybody else to do. They would do well to live from a posture of, “all of have sinned and fallen short” as Grace levels the playing field for everyone, and everyone needs Grace equally. They would do well to stop marginalizing, labeling, belittling, and treating as second class citizens those who sin (in their judgment) differently then they do. They would do well to proclaim that God loves, accepts, embraces, favors, and blesses all people far beyond what they could ever imagine. He is not angry, vengeful, waiting to punish, or licking His lips to pour out wrath, but rather, His love is deeper, wider, stronger, and more generous and scandalous than they ever imagined. They would do well to teach, preach, declare and manifest Grace, and Grace alone. Shout it from the mountain tops. Let every word drip with Grace. Then and only then, will any one person, group, country, nation, or world change. This is the Gospel. It’s all Grace, or it’s not the Gospel. For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work… Romans 1:16 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Is Evangelical Christianity The Wizard Behind the Curtain of America’s Moral And Spiritual Decline? Posted on August 8, 2015 by ckratzer http://chriskratzer.com/is-evangelical-christianity-the-wizard-behind-the-curtain-of-americas-moral-and-spiritual-decline/ I am not a fan of being on the communicating end of negative things. Most people don’t enjoy that role, I certainly don’t. As one who has to field a lot of critical knocks on my own door, I know what it feels like to be misunderstood, misrepresented, and criticized irresponsibly. So, as I write about things that are not so positive regarding Evangelical Christianity, I do so with much carefulness to avoid becoming a part of the problem, as I truly desire to be a part of the solution. As I address issues related to Evangelical Christianity in this writing, I am well aware that many Evangelicals, many of which I have as close friends, have wonderful hearts, do great things for Jesus, and are not aware of any harm in which they may or may not participate by being connected intimately or in part to Evangelical Christianity. That was true of me when I was an Evangelical pastor. In fact, I would suspect many Christians who would fall into the category of “Evangelical” don’t even realize it, nor have they considered any negative ramifications to the beliefs they hold and the Evangelical culture thereof. Yet, when I observe something so alarmingly and clearly wrong, harmful, and deceptive, I feel a responsibility to at least articulate what I see and believe. Not with a spirit of condemnation, but with one of deep concern. No one person or group is perfect. Certainly, not I. For so many years as an Evangelical, I didn’t realize what I was truly participating in and what its ramifications truly were in people’s lives. From as early as my boyhood sand box experiences, I have learned that many of the people who are repeatedly pointing at problems and things they don’t like from an aggressive, self-righteous posture are often those themselves who have something to conceal. From the bully on the playground to the podium pounding preacher, behind nearly every harsh, judging, fear-inducing, intimidating, and problem-pointing finger is often a Wizard of Oz like coward hiding behind a curtain, concealing the real issues. The overarching chorus of Evangelical Christianity for years has been that the world is bad, needs to repent, and become like them. They passionately declare their morals, beliefs, and standards are not only the foundation of America, but that which is needed to reverse, what is in their minds, a terrible, declining culture. There is an inner consensus among many Evangelicals that if people just believed, lived, and acted like them, America would be a much better place. Spokespersons and leaders of Evangelical Christianity such as Franklin Graham almost weekly, make public statements repeating this rehearsed theme that the world is bad, needs to repent, and become more like them in adopted values and lifestyle. A prevailing sentiment seems to suggest that if we would just return to the days of “Father Knows Best” where everything was seemingly simple and clean, things would be so much better. Many of these statements, communicated in many and various ways, are often textured with judgement, fear tactics, and condemnation of a world that, in their minds, is not so simple and clean anymore. The underlying message is, “we know best.” “We are right, you are wrong, we have it, you don’t; repent, turn to our Jesus, become one of us, or pay the price.” Like in a scene from The Wizard of Oz, from behind the curtain, as the room fills will smoke and the volume knobs of this rhetoric is turned up with deep, Darth Vader tones, many approach the microphone to communicate their displeasures and religious prescriptions at the world, all while declaring it to be “the Gospel.” Years ago, this Evangelical wizardry was directed against divorce and remarriage, later the issue became blacks marrying whites, today it’s homosexuality and gay marriage. All with the same battle cry, “we are right, you are wrong; repent, turn to our Jesus, think, believe and behave like us, or pay the price.” This has been the underlying missional/discipleship philosophy and posture of Evangelical Christianity for decades. “You are lost, we are found, our job is to get you to our Jesus and “disciple” you to think, believe, and behave like us.” The world is our project, people are a notch on the “got saved” belt. Baptism is an initiation rite, and membership is the entry way into our club. Of course, it’s never articulated like that, but having been an Evangelical pastor for many years, I know this to be true. This is their Gospel, this is their “salvation,” this is the Evangelical “vision.” In Evangelical Christian produced movies, tv shows, concerts, churches, books, and alike, this is the flavor of Gospel being communicated. Recently, many Evangelical Christians and leaders have turned up the heat on declaring that America is in desperate moral and spiritual decline. As they gaze out into the world and even within their own organizations and churches, they realize there is a growing number of people who don’t believe and behave as they prescribe. In their mind, the world has turned away from their brand of Jesus, Bible, and Church, and therefore is the cause of all things that are eroding our culture. With labels like “lost,” “sinner,” “progressive,” “liberal,” people who don’t fit their mold become the mission to change, and if resistant, become a kind of enemy. Yet, like in the The Wizard of Oz, things are not always as they appear. While smoke billowing Evangelical Christianity declares the world bad, those unlike them the source of blame, and the solution being to repent to their Jesus and learn to think, believe and behave like them, there is a coward pulling the strings behind a curtain. In fact, the one pointing fingers at all the problems in the world has in truth, ironically, become a major contributor to the existence of those problems. Yes, pull back the curtains and see for yourself, Evangelical Christianity is perhaps the greatest contributor to the moral and spiritual decline of America they so detest. Now, this a bold statement that will surely offend many and likely cost me in relationships and otherwise. But before you write me off, disown me, or label me a heretic, hear me out. God is love. He loves everyone unconditionally. Love is not a characteristic or attribute of God, it is who He is. God can do nothing else but love. Out of His nature, which is love, it is articulated in scripture that through Jesus (the personification of Love), the Old Covenant of Law given through Moses has been replaced with a New Covenant of Grace given through Jesus. As one writer described, “you are not under Law, but under Grace.” Romans 6:14b This is a cataclysmic, cosmic shift in how God relates to people and people relate to God. Yet, Evangelical Christianity is super slow to the party. It is a complete transition away from a conditional relationship with God and life that hinges on some level of our spiritual performance, and the ushering in of an unconditional relationship with God and life that is based solely on Christ’s performance. It is not just a move away from the letter of the Law, but the spirit of the Law as well. Let me repeat that, “it is not just a move away from the letter of the Law, but the spirit of the Law as well.” It’s not just Ten Commandments, Leviticus stuff, it’s any form of work, condemnation, judgement, performance expectation, condition, effort, or striving applied to any spiritual aspect of a person’s life. And let me add this, everything is spiritual. The Bible in its reading and understanding must be interpreted through this covenant of Grace, whose personification is Jesus. This new covenant of Grace began at the cross. Grace, with no mixture of the Law (or the spirit of the Law), received through faith, is the pure Gospel. And Faith, it’s not a work, effort, or doing, it is a rest. It is not a spiritual performance, it is a spiritual awakening to what Jesus has already done, without your faith, worthiness, or participation. It is not “faithfulness,” it is “faith.” And that faith, a gift from Jesus as well. Because of Grace, Jesus has not only done something for all people, but also to all people. Beyond having peace with God for eternity, Jesus has made all people into a new creation. At the cross, humanity became a finished work. It was one and done. Period. Jesus didn’t just die as a human, He died as humanity. The old you, was crucified with Christ. Salvation (wholeness) has come. As a new creation, you are the righteousness of Christ, holy, sanctified, forgiven (past, present, and future), justified, lacking no spiritual blessing. There is no work to be done on your life, you are completely complete. Grace has rendered spiritual growth as something you already are, not something you become or do. The Christian life is not about becoming something tomorrow you are not today through spiritual gymnastics, but about being more of who you already are because of Jesus, through believing. Your performance does not determine you identity, your identity determines your performance. Grace is the beginning and end of everything you are, do, and become. This is the Gospel, that your part is to realize you have no part, only believe. Anything less than this pure Grace Gospel, is Law. With this in mind, writers in the New Testament, vehemently described how mixing this Gospel of Grace with remnants, portions, or vibes of the Law is not just false and damaging, but evil. Any form of condemnation, work, spiritual performance, earning of intimacy with God, intolerance, judgment, personal striving, finger-pointing, or communication of a God who loves conditionally is to mix the pure Gospel of Grace with Law and to render it a means of death not salvation. “And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace” Galatians 5:4 For this writer, a minimal spiritual performance or act so innocent, symbolic, and simple as circumcision, reflected the presence of the Law and when mixed into a person’s life rendered them severed from Christ. Yikes! Sadly, knowingly or unknowingly, much of what Evangelical Christianity presents to believers and non believers in regards to the Gospel, discipleship, and the Christian life is a mixture of “Law” at best, if not pure Law. Many of them declare unconditional love with conditions, spiritual growth through personal obedience, sin overcoming through sin management, discipleship through behavior modification and doctrinal unity, and the Christian life an increasing level of personal devotion to Christ. I don’t care how you slice it or how much lipstick you put on that pig, it’s Law, Law, and more Law. What many Evangelicals declare as needing to have a “balance,” of Grace and Law, one can just hear many of the New Testament writers declaring, “B____T!” Not because it’s fun to be vulgar, but because of the ramifications of a death cocktail mixture of Grace with Law. Mix the Gospel with any amount, however small, of the Law, and guess what you have? Law. Let me bake you a cake, and drop a wee-little speck of poop into it. Just a smidgen. Don’t worry, you won’t notice. It’s fresh out the oven, you going to eat it? As one scripture writer discovered, the ministry of the Law is death and condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:7,9) That same writer also discovered that it is actually the Law that entices people to sin. (1 Corinthians 15:56) Yes, the Law… in letter or spirit is the great sin enticer; not pornography, Miley Cyrus, rap music, or Play Station. See first, the Law in all its forms, in letter or spirit, condemns. Find me a person with a sin problem and I will have found you a person with a condemnation problem. Second, the Law appeals to the flesh. The flesh, is not our evil lustful side as some would have us believe, it is actually when we attempt, through any kind of effort on our part to gain or receive from God something He has already freely given; salvation, forgiveness, intimacy, blessing, favor, righteousness, holiness, sanctification, and the list goes on and on. This is a futile, evil endeavor. It’s a dead end. First because God has already given completely that which is trying to be gained, and second, because you can’t gain, earn, or receive anything from God through your performance, effort, pursuit, pressing in, or actions, no matter how spiritual they may seem. To do so, is to fall from Grace and declare the cross as foolish and insufficient, and yourself as capable and worthy at some level or another. That is what it looks like to be deceived, to walk in darkness, to water-down the Law (as you think you can handle it), and therefore, to minimize and marginalize Grace (because you think you don’t completely need it). It is the height of anti-Christ. It is to be bewitched by another Gospel, which is no Gospel at all. And worst of all, it is to entice and imprison people to sin, hypocrisy, and a lifestyle thereof. The Evangelical prescription for sin is at best, a mixture of Gospel and Law. God loves you, BUT… you need to repent (which in their mind, wrongly means “to change”). Do these spiritual things, apply these formulas, attend these groups, solicit this accountability partner, press into this experience with God, say this prayer, read this book, partner with Jesus, attend this conference, take these steps, believe these beliefs, be all you can be for Jesus, follow these rules etc. etc. Problem is, it not only all doesn’t work, it all makes things worse. For much of Evangelical Christianity, the Gospel is “behavior modification” through some level of personal effort or spiritual performance. All of this, declaring the Law and packaging as the Gospel, and then wondering why people fall away and morals decline for both nonbelievers and believers. If you take the Law seriously, if you take Grace seriously, if you take the consequences of mixing any amount of Law with the Gospel of Grace, it is clear that much of Evangelical Christianity has actually been prescribing the cancer, not the cure; at best, withholding the cure. Whether they realize it or not, they have been baking cakes with [censored] in it, and then wondering why people are getting sick, spitting it out of their mouths, and not getting any better. All while some of them have the gaul to sprout their spiritual feathers, get mad, bark their religious rants, throw up their hands, and act so disgusted (and surprised) when they see a nation that, in their minds, is spiritually dying. Of course it is! That’s what happens when one supplies the cancer as the cure. That’s what happens when you feed people cakes with [censored] in them. A few years back, the Barna Research Group showed that the overall divorce rate among Evangelical themed denominations was between 27-34%, while the divorce rate among atheists… 21%. Evidently, in our country, you have a better chance at having a holy, Jesus-like life out of church than you do in it. If perhaps the largest Christian representation in America, Evangelical Christianity is engaging in the ministry of the Law, should we be surprised at the amount of spiritual decline we see in America? Should we be surprised that people are seemingly more enticed and imprisoned to sin now, more than ever? That’s what the Law does. Should we be surprised that Christians exposed to Evangelical Christianity don’t get better, and the world that is watching, has become disinterested and “done” with church. The truth is, the spiritual prescriptions of much of Evangelical Christianity entice and imprison people to sin, not free them. We can change nothing in ourselves or others. The Holy Spirit does that, and that through pure Grace, not Law or any mixture thereof. The very thing that many Evangelicals declare as too soft (Grace) is actually the one and only thing that has the teeth and grip to change anything. As one scripture writer discovered, “For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, teaching us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.” Titus 2:12 What teaches, what changes, what influences? Grace. Jesus mentioned that you can sense a certain amount of the quality of a spiritual thing by the fruit it bares. Much of Evangelical Christianity has sadly produced… 1) selfish, consumer minded Christians who believe that “church” is about meeting their particular needs. Thus, Christianity isn’t growing but is actually in severe decline as believers are continually shuffling around to whatever church has the best show and better meets their needs 2) Christians who believe the Bible is equal to Jesus/God and place their understanding of it over standing with people and declare their particular understanding to be “truly biblical.” 3) churches where Christians mainly talk amongst themselves and judge the world, believing they’re right and everyone just needs to become right like them 4) celebrity pastors and leaders who franchise church, their egos, and a performance-driven, hyped up perversion of the Gospel. 5) churches that might welcome a sinner or two into their mix as they look down upon them as their “mission”, but don’t truly “want” them unless they clean up and adopt their values and beliefs. 6) Christians who believe the Gospel is a mixture of Grace and Law, Jesus does His part, but one needs to do their part, or else. 7) Christians and Christian leaders who believe their job is to point out sin in the world, and declare that God loves people so much that if they don’t say a certain prayer and clean up their act, He will justly throw them into an eternity of torture by demons, flames, and a desire to die that will never be granted; calling it all… good news. In my humble opinion, no one is perfect, especially me, but that is no fruit. I believe much of Evangelical Christianity, particularly those who embody a more judgmental, prideful, elitist, legalistic, and performance-driven Christian flavor would do well to repent (which really means to “change your mind”) about Jesus, the Gospel, love, bible, the Christian life, sin, and Church so that these areas and their understanding thereof reflect the pure Grace of God and the finished work of Jesus on the cross. I believe much of Evangelical Christianity would do well to focus on modeling Jesus who is pure Grace and unconditional love. They would do well to stand with people over and above their biblical stances on the issues. They would do well to learn to rightly divide the word of God between the Old Testament and the New, interpreting all scripture through the lens of Grace as Jesus did. They would do well to move away from “hating the sin and loving the sinner,” and just loving people, period. They would do well to let the Holy Spirit discern and change people, and instead, concentrate on doing their job, which is to love people, unconditionally. They would do well to direct their finger pointing to the loveliness of Jesus, not to the ugliness they deem to see in people. They would do well to trust Grace to do what only Grace can do, which is most everything they think they are capable of doing and charge everybody else to do. They would do well to live from a posture of, “all of have sinned and fallen short” as Grace levels the playing field for everyone, and everyone needs Grace equally. They would do well to stop marginalizing, labeling, belittling, and treating as second class citizens those who sin (in their judgment) differently then they do. They would do well to proclaim that God loves, accepts, embraces, favors, and blesses all people far beyond what they could ever imagine. He is not angry, vengeful, waiting to punish, or licking His lips to pour out wrath, but rather, His love is deeper, wider, stronger, and more generous and scandalous than they ever imagined. They would do well to teach, preach, declare and manifest Grace, and Grace alone. Shout it from the mountain tops. Let every word drip with Grace. Then and only then, will any one person, group, country, nation, or world change. This is the Gospel. It’s all Grace, or it’s not the Gospel. For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work… Romans 1:16
LifeHiscost Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 A good example of allowing our Father to replace our dis-ease with His righteousness, was Adam's and Eve's acceptance of the garments He provided instead of the leaves of our shame they fashioned for themselves, something reflected in those who choose to announce for everyone to see, the shame of their previous condition. God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
GayatfootofCross Posted February 15, 2017 Author Posted February 15, 2017 In my studys.. I have found another example of this God of Concessions. (although I technically knew of this before) In Exodus 23 we find God declaring He will drive out the peoples in the Land of Canaan! verse 28 ".... And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee....." But His people were hell bent on doing it themselves. God still went with them. Ahhhhmazing! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted June 26, 2017 Author Posted June 26, 2017 i found a sermon that represents what I wrote in the OP 42 minutes long link 42 minutes of your time < Here Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
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