bonnie Posted September 27, 2015 Posted September 27, 2015 ISLAMSharia Law Vs. The Constitution: How Do American Muslims Feel? ByRed Dawn Posted on September 26, 2015 The most disturbing answer? “The U.S. Constitution comes from people. Sharia Law comes from Allah… The Constitution governs this country. Sharia Law governs the whole world. Of course it is above.” Watch and weep. Wow. Dr. Carson is just a total Islamophobe, isn’t he? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted September 27, 2015 Moderators Posted September 27, 2015 Whereas I've never seen a Christian say 'God's law is higher than man's law'. Quote Truth is important
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 27, 2015 Moderators Posted September 27, 2015 Joeb, I believe that a person may become President if that person is willing to affirm that they will support and defend the Constitution. I do not believe that they are required to take an oath to do so. NOTE: There is substantial case law on the right of a person to refuse to take an oath and instead to affirm. Quote Gregory
bonnie Posted September 27, 2015 Posted September 27, 2015 PROMINENT MUSLIM AGREES WITH BEN CARSON THAT A MUSLIM SHOULDN’T BE PRESIDENT… Nancy Hayes — September 25, 2015 Presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson was roundly criticized last week for his comments about Islam. When asked whether he believes that Islam is consistent with the Constitution, his response was: “No, I don’t. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.” Amen! image: http://joeforameric In walks Dr. Tawfik Hamid. Dr. Tawfik Hamid, is an Islamic thinker and reformer, and one time Islamic extremist from Egypt. He was a member of a radical Islamic organization Jamaa Islameia JI (of Egypt) with Dr. Ayman Al-Zawaherri who later became the second in command of Al-Qaeda. After being radicalized in the JI (approximately thirty-five years ago), he had an awakening of his human conscience, recognized the threat of Radical Islam, and started to teach modern peaceful interpretations of classical Islamic core texts. In a story on Newsmax: Dr. Tawfik Hamid, author of “Inside Jihad: Understanding and Confronting Radical Islam writes the following statements in his support for Dr. Carson. As a Muslim — and particularly as a former member of a radical Islamist group — I can state unequivocally that Dr. Carson is correct. Without a single exception, the approved Islamic literature teaches violent principles such as killing apostates, beating women, killing gays, and enslaving female war prisoners for sexual purposes. If anyone doubts this, or wishes to challenge it, they need to prove this to be wrong. If Carson’s critics could provide a single approved Islamic theological book that would undermine his position. If they could point to just one treatise that is accepted by the leading Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University or the religious authorities in Saudi Arabia (the two Sunni religious bodies responsible for approving a printed Koran) that rejects the traditional barbaric principles of Islamic law. If they could produce a solitary approved Islamic text that stands clearly and unambiguously against killing apostates, beating women, killing gays, and enslaving female war prisoners for the express purpose of raping them — then perhaps the criticism would be justified. But such a text does not exist. In fact, until such a reference is found, Ben Carson is correct. These Shariah values and principles, which are so hostile to the American Constitution, are still an integral part of mainstream Islam. Worse, the aforementioned horrific values are considered “maloom mina aldeen Bil-Darora” (a necessary article of the religion). So if a Muslim were to reject them, under Shariah, he must be considered an apostate (one who has forsaken his religion), and therefore, under the same law, must be killed. In other words, any Muslim who rejects killing gays and apostates, or beating and raping women is no longer considered a Muslim under Shariah. Such rules fly in the face of the Constitution. So here it is! Words from a Muslim and not just ANY Muslim, but Dr. Tawfik Hamid. These Shariah values and principles… areso hostile to the American Constitution. If that’s not in support of Dr. Carson, I don’t know what IS! What MORE evidence do you need people, unless of course your head is still…. image: http://joeforamerica.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/bury-your-head-in-the-sand1.jpg #WakeUpAmerica Written by Nancy Hayes Follow on Twitter: @body Read more at http://joeforamerica.com/2015/09/prominent-muslim-agrees-ben-carson-muslim-shouldnt-president-wait/ ✕ It's not about right and left. It's about right and wrong. Click "LIKE" if you agree ... i Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
PROMINENT MUSLIM AGREES WITH BEN CARSON THAT A MUSLIM SHOULDN’T BE PRESIDENT… Nancy Hayes — September 25, 2015 Presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson was roundly criticized last week for his comments about Islam. When asked whether he believes that Islam is consistent with the Constitution, his response was: “No, I don’t. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.” Amen! image: http://joeforameric In walks Dr. Tawfik Hamid. Dr. Tawfik Hamid, is an Islamic thinker and reformer, and one time Islamic extremist from Egypt. He was a member of a radical Islamic organization Jamaa Islameia JI (of Egypt) with Dr. Ayman Al-Zawaherri who later became the second in command of Al-Qaeda. After being radicalized in the JI (approximately thirty-five years ago), he had an awakening of his human conscience, recognized the threat of Radical Islam, and started to teach modern peaceful interpretations of classical Islamic core texts. In a story on Newsmax: Dr. Tawfik Hamid, author of “Inside Jihad: Understanding and Confronting Radical Islam writes the following statements in his support for Dr. Carson. As a Muslim — and particularly as a former member of a radical Islamist group — I can state unequivocally that Dr. Carson is correct. Without a single exception, the approved Islamic literature teaches violent principles such as killing apostates, beating women, killing gays, and enslaving female war prisoners for sexual purposes. If anyone doubts this, or wishes to challenge it, they need to prove this to be wrong. If Carson’s critics could provide a single approved Islamic theological book that would undermine his position. If they could point to just one treatise that is accepted by the leading Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University or the religious authorities in Saudi Arabia (the two Sunni religious bodies responsible for approving a printed Koran) that rejects the traditional barbaric principles of Islamic law. If they could produce a solitary approved Islamic text that stands clearly and unambiguously against killing apostates, beating women, killing gays, and enslaving female war prisoners for the express purpose of raping them — then perhaps the criticism would be justified. But such a text does not exist. In fact, until such a reference is found, Ben Carson is correct. These Shariah values and principles, which are so hostile to the American Constitution, are still an integral part of mainstream Islam. Worse, the aforementioned horrific values are considered “maloom mina aldeen Bil-Darora” (a necessary article of the religion). So if a Muslim were to reject them, under Shariah, he must be considered an apostate (one who has forsaken his religion), and therefore, under the same law, must be killed. In other words, any Muslim who rejects killing gays and apostates, or beating and raping women is no longer considered a Muslim under Shariah. Such rules fly in the face of the Constitution. So here it is! Words from a Muslim and not just ANY Muslim, but Dr. Tawfik Hamid. These Shariah values and principles… areso hostile to the American Constitution. If that’s not in support of Dr. Carson, I don’t know what IS! What MORE evidence do you need people, unless of course your head is still…. image: http://joeforamerica.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/bury-your-head-in-the-sand1.jpg #WakeUpAmerica Written by Nancy Hayes Follow on Twitter: @body
pierrepaul Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 It's not surprising that some Muslims think a Muslim ought not to be President of the USA. A few SdAs are a little uncomfortable with the idea of a fellow SdA as President. I knew a few Mormons who weren't excited about Mitt Romney's run for President. Bravus and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think".
joeb Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Joeb, I believe that a person may become President if that person is willing to affirm that they will support and defend the Constitution. I do not believe that they are required to take an oath to do so. NOTE: There is substantial case law on the right of a person to refuse to take an oath and instead to affirm. Sometimes I'm amazed at the ignorance displayed by citizens of the US about their own government. It seems to me that most people don't even have a basic grasp of civics. The Constitution does not allow a President to NOT take the oath of office. It says he "shall" take the oath of office. As the Constitution supercedes all other forms of law in the US there is no excception. http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/2/essays/85/oath-of-office Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 1, 2015 Administrators Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) You are misunderstanding what Gregory said. Much of the idiotic blathering on this story is over the specific use during the administering of the oath of a Bible vs Koran, or whatever other holy book or symbol of moral truth the subscribes to. It is not about whether a swearing in exercise for an office will take place or not. The office holder, just as someone testifying in court will still have to do something affirmative to confirm they are going to do whatever it is they are supposed to do. In court, before a witness testifies they will still have to confirm in one way or the other that they will be truthful. The option there as well as when being sworn into office can be done by simply affirming the acceptance of the spoken oath or swearing on whatever holy book one would choose. This is to accommodate non-Christians and even some Christians who take the words of Jesus literally that one should not swear an oath but simply let ones yeas be yeas and nays be nays. The Presidential oath of office will still be administered. It is just over how it is carried out that is creating all the chattering foolishness. Edited October 19, 2015 by Tom Wetmore Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Aliensanctuary Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It's the media's job to make certain unapproved candidates look like fools. The media would be howling and beating their breasts if a devout Muslim were actually elected as president and began enforcing sharia law across the land. The media will capitalize on Mr. Carson's tendency to be unpolitically correct, even though he makes sense. Sharia may get rid of some crimes by killing or maiming the perpetrators, but approves of crimes against humanity, including murder and rape and mutilation of non Muslims. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
pierrepaul Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It's the media's job to make certain unapproved candidates look like fools. The media's job is to maximize viewership/readership in order to sell advertising. Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think".
Members phkrause Posted October 3, 2015 Members Posted October 3, 2015 The media will capitalize on Mr. Carson's tendency to be unpolitically correct, even though he makes sense. How is he "unpolitically correct?" Has he cursed at the other candidates? Has he flipped the bird at the others?? No he's been very polite, actually been very Christ like!!! I thin we take this "political correct" saying over the top!! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Stan Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 We should o an interview with him on here. It has been a while since we did such things. ANYONE in? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Administrators Naomi Posted October 3, 2015 Administrators Posted October 3, 2015 Yes, it would be good However, he should be treated with the respect due a man of his statue. Honest, yes ... but respectful phkrause 1 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Moderators Bravus Posted October 4, 2015 Moderators Posted October 4, 2015 http://www.salon.com/2015/10/04/ben_carson_slanders_islam_heres_exactly_why_his_claims_about_muslims_are_dead_wrong/ Quote Truth is important
Aliensanctuary Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Ben Carson slanders Islam: Here’s exactly why his claims about Muslims are dead wrong The neurosurgeon-turned-Republican candidate is spreading absurd lies about the world's second-largest religion QASIM RASHID In his recent anti-Muslim crusade, Ben Carson promoted a disturbing form of religious segregation, claiming that a Muslim should only be president if he or she “renounces the tenets of Islam.” In the process, Dr. Carson has helped promote and sustain frighteningly high levels of anti-Muslim sentiment. A recent PPP survey in North Carolina reported that 72 percent believe a Muslim should not be allowed to be president of the United States. Likewise, 40 percent seek to ban Islam altogether. Like his racial segregationist predecessors, Dr. Carson demonstrates that the Constitution is suddenly meaningless when influential politicians use fear and hate to advance their agenda. Undeterred from his myopic comments on CNN and the resulting blowback last week, Carson advanced his religious segregationist views in a recent email to his constituents, claiming that “Under Shariah law, women must be subservient and people following other religions must be killed.” If Dr. Carson is correct—and unfortunately his rising poll figures indicate that enough Americans believe he is correct—then America’s 3 million Muslims are obliged to make America’s 170 million women subservient and likewise kill the nation’s 330 million non-Muslims. Both concepts are beyond absurd and wholly unfounded in Islam. For example, far from Dr. Carson’s claim that in Islam women are subservient, Islam gave women equal rights in 610 that our own United States haven’t given even in 2015. To this day America has not passed the Equal Rights Amendment. Meanwhile the Quran 33:36 emphatically declares the equality of men and women: The author of this article is full of it. No matter what this guy says, in Islam, women are subservient to men and are treated as second-class citizens. Muslim women in western countries may be treated differently for a time, but only until sharia is the law of the land and Islam is the religion of the land. A devout, strict Muslim as president will transform this country at the cost of much blood and many lives. Pure Islam is a religion based on the death of infidels, Christians, and Jews. Incidentally, the red areas in the quoted article are highlighted by the author. Imagine that, blaming Ben Carson for all that racism and anti-Islam sentiment sweeping across the USA. JoeMo 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 5, 2015 Administrators Posted October 5, 2015 And you are an expert on Islam? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 5, 2015 Administrators Posted October 5, 2015 Consistent with the facts spoken of in the article, even as I sit here typing this I am watching a program about Dubai, in the heart of Muslim territory. By coincidence it Includes 3 stories about businesses owned and/or operated by women. The women interviewed were well educated - with Ph.D.'s actually. Independent, well educated, owning and operating significant businesses in a Muslim country. Two of those businesses are traditionally dominated by men. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
LifeHiscost Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Whereas I've never seen a Christian say 'God's law is higher than man's law'. …20And He said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" 21They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." 22And hearing this, they were amazed, and leaving Him, they went away.....Matthew 22 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 5, 2015 Moderators Posted October 5, 2015 Tom, the Prophet's first wife was a wealthy business person and continued to act in that capacity after her marriage. Quote Gregory
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 5, 2015 Moderators Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Two people in this thread have cited a peson who writes under the name of Qasim Rashid. In my opinion, that was a poor choice. I do not believe that QR either represents mainline Islam or that he has been accurate in what he says in the entire article, which has not been quoted in this thread. Yet, he is at least partially correct. QR cites Quran 33:36. I will suggest that he did so on the assumption that no one would actually check it out to see what the Quran actually says in that verse. I do not understand it as saying what QR suggests it says. In addition, mainline Islamic scholars also do not see in that verse what QR claims to see. However, QR is partially correct in the tolerance that he says Islam teaches for other religions. The Quran is clearly tolerant of the people it calls "People of the Book." That phrase is a code for Christians and Jews. QR is also correct in his suggestion that the violence that that is often seen in Islam is directed against those who are attempting to wage war against Islam and take their lives. NOTE: I also believe that dr. Carson fails to understand Islam. Edited October 5, 2015 by Gregory Matthews phkrause 1 Quote Gregory
Moderators Bravus Posted October 7, 2015 Moderators Posted October 7, 2015 I think one of the issues is that no one person can speak for all of Islam. Can one person speak for all of Christianity?We need to draw on a variety of perspectives, views and input... and to avoid confirmation bias, and to seek perspectives that challenge us.As a general rule, I'd sooner listen to a Christian talk about Christianity than a Muslim talk about Christianity, and in the same way in general I'd prefer to listen to a Muslim talk about Islam than to a Christian talk about Islam.I'd prefer to listen to a mainstream Christian preacher than a member of Westboro Baptist, and I'd prefer to listen to a mainstream mullah than a member of Daesh, when it comes to understanding the tenets of a faith. Is it possible to find people saying intemperate things about any faith? Sure. But when deciding whether those things represent the whole or majority of that faith, we need to be careful that the same rules apply for the in-group as for the out-group. phkrause, Tom Wetmore and CoAspen 3 Quote Truth is important
CoAspen Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 Very insightful, the above post. It sounds like common sense but we know that it isn't for many, many people. Thanks for posting Bravus!!! Quote
LifeHiscost Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 What we say about other groups or even that one we claim as our own, will have a small effect on thinking individuals, however it will have a significant effect on the direction we ourselves travel whether the comments are negative or positive. God is Love! Jesus saves! JoeMo 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Aliensanctuary Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Of course, I'm not an expert on Islam, and neither is anyone else posting here. Perhaps the thread should be locked due to the preponderence of ignorance. As I see it, even though I'm not an expert, westernized Islam does not represent true Islam which supports and enforces Sharia. According to what I have read and heard on the news, Islam is a union of the political and spiritual. Allah is the supreme ruler and law-giver, all other systems must be subservient to his laws. A true Muslim president would be obligated to make Islam the religion of the land and Sharia the law of the land. A true Muslim cannot support and defend the US constitution, otherwise, he would be regarded as an infidel and be subject to the death penalty. A true, non-westernized Musim would be obligated to line up the members of Congress and decapitate them in front of the cameras, then burn the original Constitution. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 13, 2015 Administrators Posted October 13, 2015 You have leaped whole hog into the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.