Who is the One New Man Created on the Cross?

[Samie]

I have summarized my position in what I called the 3 dimensions of the gospel. Ask me about it. I'll gladly answer.

[Samie]

Yesterday, you raised the issue on Justification and Forgiveness. I addressed that already while you were resting. But it seemed you have forgotten it. Or you read it, and saw that it stands on solid biblical ground, you decided to keep mum about it? We can discuss about that as well.

[Samie]

On nice things about Christ and His beauty in my position which you don't see (or refuse to see?), I'll mention one.

My position: Knowing we can do NOTHING, He attached us to Himself on the cross.

Your position: While we are dead, Christ waited for us to believe in Him, and when we believed, that's when He attached us to Himself.

I guess, my position better describes Christ as a wonderful, loving Savior.

[Samie]

Just now, Samie said:

On nice things about Christ and His beauty in my position which you don't see (or refuse to see?), I'll mention one.

My position: Knowing we can do NOTHING, He attached us to Himself on the cross.

Your position: While we are dead, Christ waited for us to believe in Him, and when we believed, that's when He attached us to Himself.

I guess, my position better describes Christ as a wonderful, loving Savior.

Your position likewise depicts Christ as a Savior who requires the dead He knows can do NOTHING to do SOMETHING, so He can attach Him to Himself. 

And yet you shout out loud, Christ is beautiful. With tongue in cheek?

[pnattmbtc]

21 minutes ago, Samie said:

I have summarized my position in what I called the 3 dimensions of the gospel. Ask me about it. I'll gladly answer.

Where is there something about Christ's character in what you wrote?  Please be as succinct as possible.

[pnattmbtc]

19 minutes ago, Samie said:

Yesterday, you raised the issue on Justification and Forgiveness. I addressed that already while you were resting. But it seemed you have forgotten it. Or you read it, and saw that it stands on solid biblical ground, you decided to keep mum about it? We can discuss about that as well.

I posted on this.  You didn't respond to my post, did you?

[pnattmbtc]

9 minutes ago, Samie said:

On nice things about Christ and His beauty in my position which you don't see (or refuse to see?), I'll mention one.

My position: Knowing we can do NOTHING, He attached us to Himself on the cross.

Your position: While we are dead, Christ waited for us to believe in Him, and when we believed, that's when He attached us to Himself.

I guess, my position better describes Christ as a wonderful, loving Savior.

Why?  On the last sentence I'm asking.  You said a nice thing about Christ!  Let's run with it.  How does what you wrote present Christ as a wonderful, loving Savior?

[pnattmbtc]

6 minutes ago, Samie said:

Your position likewise depicts Christ as a Savior who requires the dead He knows can do NOTHING to do SOMETHING, so He can attach Him to Himself. 

And yet you shout out loud, Christ is beautiful. With tongue in cheek?

I don't understand what you're saying.  

I've illustrated what I've said as follows.  Imagine you are crossing the road, and a car comes that is about to hit you, and someone saves your life by interposing himself between you and the car at danger to himself.  Say he is hospitalized, almost killed.  Wouldn't you visit him in the hospital to say thanks?

[Samie]

6 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said:

Why?  On the last sentence I'm asking.  You said a nice thing about Christ!  Let's run with it.  How does what you wrote present Christ as a wonderful, loving Savior?

I have a better idea.

Why don't you explain why, a Ph.D. like you, can't see any beauty of Christ in what I have posted, when a mere layman like me has explained it, and you cannot even object to it, but instead require me to explain it over and over again?

[pnattmbtc]

4 minutes ago, Samie said:

I have a better idea.

Why don't you explain why, a Ph.D. like you, can't see any beauty of Christ in what I have posted, when a mere layman like me has explained it, and you cannot even object to it, but instead require me to explain it over and over again?

I'm asking you where you see the beauty of Christ's character in it.  You wrote it!  If you can't see or articulate it, why would you expect others to?

[Samie]

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

I'm asking you where you see the beauty of Christ's character in it.

You see, your style? From beauty of Christ, to beauty of Christ's character? What next, doc?

2 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said:

You wrote it!

Why didn't you read it?

3 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said:

If you can't see or articulate it, why would you expect others to?

Yes, why do you expect me, a layman (but I have already articulated it), when you, a Ph.D., can't?

[Samie]

14 hours ago, Samie said:

Is Justification the same as Forgiveness?

Samie says, No, because:

1. We were yet sinners, hence yet unforgiven, when Christ died

 

^NAS Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 2. In that death we all died with Him, being His Body.

 

^NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:14-15   ¹⁴ For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;  ¹⁵ and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

           

^NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

3. But when He resurrected and we were made alive TOGETHER with Him, God has already forgiven us:

 

^NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

4. And yet one purpose for which Jesus was resurrected was for our justification.

 

^KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Therefore Forgiveness is not the same as Justification, otherwise, they would have occurred at the same time.

Do you have any objection to this?

[pnattmbtc]

1 minute ago, Samie said:

You see, your style? From beauty of Christ, to beauty of Christ's character? What next, doc?

Why didn't you read it?

Yes, why do you expect me, a layman (but I have already articulated it), when you, a Ph.D., can't?

Samie, I'm asking you a simple thing:

Where is there anything about Christ's character in what you wrote?

I've asked you, presumably a Christian, to say something nice about Christ, and you can't.  That's problematic.

There's a problem if you have a theory about that Plan of Salvation that has nothing about Christ in it!  Also, if, as a believer in your theory, you cannot say anything nice about Christ, that's problematic also.

 

[pnattmbtc]

Regarding forgiveness and pardon, you're still invited to respond to my post.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

Samie, I'm asking you a simple thing:

Where is there anything about Christ's character in what you wrote?

I've asked you, presumably a Christian, to say something nice about Christ, and you can't.  That's problematic.

There's a problem if you have a theory about that Plan of Salvation that has nothing about Christ in it!  Also, if, as a believer in your theory, you cannot say anything nice about Christ, that's problematic also.

I already did, brother. You're just playing dumb. You have even quoted it.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

Regarding forgiveness and pardon, you're still invited to respond to my post.

Already, doc. Some posts up. Did you see it? Or play dumb again?

[Samie]

It's you who don't respond. Here again is that post:

5 minutes ago, Samie said:

Is Justification the same as Forgiveness?

Samie says, No, because:

1. We were yet sinners, hence yet unforgiven, when Christ died

 

^NAS Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 2. In that death we all died with Him, being His Body.

 

^NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:14-15   ¹⁴ For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;  ¹⁵ and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

           

^NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

3. But when He resurrected and we were made alive TOGETHER with Him, God has already forgiven us:

 

^NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

4. And yet one purpose for which Jesus was resurrected was for our justification.

 

^KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Therefore Forgiveness is not the same as Justification, otherwise, they would have occurred at the same time.

Now respond to this.

[Samie]

Or you can do your old tricks again: instead of answering and addressing the issue, ask a question, then another question, then tell me I don't respond.

[pnattmbtc]

8 minutes ago, Samie said:

 

 

9 minutes ago, Samie said:

 

 

[pnattmbtc]

Samie, I wrote a post about forgiveness and pardon.  I quoted from the Spirit of Prophecy.  I cited Romans 4.  I cited Luke 18.  Do you want me to rewrite what I wrote?

[Samie]

??? blank.

[pnattmbtc]

software

[pnattmbtc]

Coming back to a question, if you accepted Christ as your personal Savior, and invited him into your heart, why do you not find this worthy of mention in your theory of the Plan of Salvation?  I don't see how you can present a theory where this is completely absent.

[Samie]

Is your post earlier than my post?

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

Samie, I wrote a post about forgiveness and pardon.  I quoted from the Spirit of Prophecy.  I cited Romans 4.  I cited Luke 18.  Do you want me to rewrite what I wrote?

8 minutes ago, Samie said:

Is Justification the same as Forgiveness?

Samie says, No, because:

1. We were yet sinners, hence yet unforgiven, when Christ died

 

^NAS Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 2. In that death we all died with Him, being His Body.

 

^NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:14-15   ¹⁴ For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;  ¹⁵ and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

           

^NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

3. But when He resurrected and we were made alive TOGETHER with Him, God has already forgiven us:

 

^NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

4. And yet one purpose for which Jesus was resurrected was for our justification.

 

^KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Therefore Forgiveness is not the same as Justification, otherwise, they would have occurred at the same time.

 

[pnattmbtc]

Yes, it's earlier.