Ben Carson "Not an Authentic Adventist"

Sarah Posner · October 22, 2015

By Sarah Posner October 12, 2015

On Guns and Religious Liberty, Ben Carson “Not an Authentic Adventist”

You’d never know it from Ben Carson’s exhortations for Americans to arm themselves against perpetrators of gun violence, but a central belief of his religion, Seventh-day Adventism, is in non-violence.

From the founding of the denomination in 1863, both doctrinally and culturally, Adventists have been “non-combative,” and their status in wartime is that of conscientious objector, said Alexander Carpenter, a writer and academic who serves on the board of Adventist Forum, a liberal non-profit that publishes the independent journal Spectrum.

In his statements about guns and gun violence, Carson “is not an authentic Adventist,” added Carpenter, who also has taught at Pacific Union College, one of a dozen Adventist colleges and universities in the United States. Many Adventists have served in the U.S. military, but refused to carry weapons. Others served in the medical corps. Still others, such as the young medical students at the Adventist Loma Linda University medical school, volunteered during World War II to be medical test subjects rather than engaging in combat.

“The language of support for guns is totally outside the rhetoric and beliefs of the Adventist church,” said Carpenter. And Carson’s discredited and offensive statements that the Holocaust occurred because Nazis would not allow Germans to carry guns is “exactly opposed to Adventist teaching,” Carpenter said. In Adventist theology, “your decision not to act [with violence] is where you have power.”

Co-founded in 1863 by Ellen and James White and others, amid the religious fervor of mid-nineteenth century America, Adventism grew out of the “Great Disappointment”—when Jesus did not return as prophesied by William Miller, the Baptist preacher, on October 22, 1844. In the wake of the Great Disappointment, Ellen White began having dreams and visions, which led early Adventists to see the Great Disappointment not with sadness, but as a key historical moment, “the start of Jesus’ final work of atonement,” according to the Adventist Review, writing on the 170^th anniversary of the Great Disappointment. According to the official Adventist statement of beliefs, in 1844 Jesus “entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry,” known to Adventists as “the investigative judgment,” and seen as the preparation for Jesus’s eventual return.

There are approximately one million Adventists in the United States, and 18 million worldwide. Observing the Sabbath on Saturday, not Sunday, and a commitment to health and wellness, including vegetarianism, are prominent features that distinguish Adventism from other Christian denominations. Protecting the Saturday Sabbath observance has driven Adventist involvement in legal challenges under the Free Exercise Clause, such as the one that led to the landmark 1963 Supreme Court decision in Sherbert v. Verner, which protected the constitutional right of a Seventh-day Adventist to refuse to work on Saturday.

The church also supports church-state separation, a stance that drove its May 2015 statement that it would not take a position on a candidate in the presidential race, and urging pastors and church employees to “also exercise extreme care not to express views in their denominational capacity about any candidate for office, including Dr. Carson.”

“Adventism and Mormonism are the two lasting vestiges of unique American religions to come out of the Second Great Awakening,” said Jason Hines, an Adventist writer and lawyer who often covers church-state separation issues. “As newcomers, it’s taken a while for them to be accepted.”

While Mitt Romney faced direct insults from evangelicals and others over his religion when he ran for president in 2012, Carson—with a few exceptions, such as withdrawing from speaking at a Southern Baptist Convention conference after pastors raised both political and theological concerns—seems to have immunized himself from that sort of scrutiny.

Although Carson has downplayed his Adventism during his presidential run, depicting himself more generically as a Christian, his commitment to Adventism is well documented. In his book first published in 1990, Gifted Hands, Carson wrote the “Adventist denomination is the only spiritual home I’ve ever known.”

“I’m an elder at Spencerville Seventh-day Adventist Church,” in Silver Spring, Maryland, Carson wrote. “I’m also Health and Temperance Director, which means I present special programs and coordinate the other medical workers in our church.”

For black Adventists, Gifted Hands was a seminal work and Carson long seen “as a shining light of what a black Adventist can become. There’s not a black Adventist I know who didn’t have Gifted Hands,” said Hines, who currently teaches Christian ethics and law at the Adventist University of Health Sciences in Orlando, Florida.

“I have been steeped in the Carson biography for 30 years,” Hines added.

While Carson and his biography have been “pervasive” for black Adventists, said Hines, white Adventists have discovered him more recently—in politics. While some conservative Adventists may be drawn to him, “black liberals are pulling away,” said Hines.

Carson’s fusion of religion and American-ness—rooted in the Tea Party and religious right rhetoric about the “Christian nation” and disdain for “political correctness”—is drawn from American conservatism, and is in many ways contrary to Adventism. Mother Jones’ David Corn, for example, recently documented Carson’s affection for W. Cleon Skousen, the Cold War-era writer and conspiracy theorist long popular with conservatives and the religious right, and more recently with Tea Party activists. But it is “not common,” said Carpenter, for Adventists to affiliate with the Tea Party.

While central to religious right activism, abortion has not been a “wedge issue” for Adventists, said Carpenter. That issue, along with guns and religious liberty, are “three things that would create wedges between him and his base and make him choose between his faith and his politics,” he added.

In a 2014 review of Carson’s book, One Nation: What We Can All Do to Save America’s Future, Douglas Morgan, a historian at Washington Adventist University, wrote that Carson “advocates an agenda that looks very much like what Adventists have long opposed in the name of religious liberty.” Morgan maintained that Carson advocated “a civil religion that re-defines the God of the Bible as the patron deity of the United States of America,” and displayed “a general tendency to use the Bible primarily for practical wisdom and selective moral discipline that he believes will strengthen America’s power and prosperity as world hegemon.”

But Adventists, Morgan went on:

by contrast have typically emphasized the portrayal of human empires in apocalyptic prophecy, and more broadly the entire sweep of the “story of redemption,” as arrogant oppressors, reiterations of “Babylon” that defy the true and living God and persecute the people of God. The main role of the latter is faithful witness to God’s government and coming kingdom, not to promote the might of worldly empires.

That would appear to be a religious worldview that would alarm some of Carson’s biggest fans.

Hines hopes that Carson isn’t asked on the national stage to explain Adventist eschatology, which portrays the American government as one that will eventually, in league with the Catholic Church, persecute Adventists for their observance of the Saturday Sabbath.

It appears that Carson has allied himself with the Tea Party and religious right despite his Adventism, not because of it. Oddly enough, Adventists long have been skeptical of the religious right, dating back to the days of the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition. Many Adventists, even conservative ones, said Carpenter, were wary of that entanglement of religion and politics, and saw the rise of those political movements in eschatological terms, as a bloc that would eventually work with the American government to oppress the religious freedom of the Saturday-observant Adventists.

Of course within most religions, adherents vary in how literally they interpret the tenets of the faith, and in presidential campaigns, candidates shouldn’t be asked to explain their religion, unless they’ve made it an issue of how they would govern. Ben Carson has decidedly not made his Adventism an issue. In fact, it’s hard to think of another candidate who seems to have run so far from his own faith.

..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Edited October 22, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

October 22, 2015

http://religiondispatches.org/on-guns-and-religious-liberty-ben-carson-leaves-fellow-adventists-mystified/

October 22, 2015

Very Interesting

October 22, 2015

Its a nonsense! Look at the Old Testament history of Israelites. They fought against their enemies! One of Jesus's disciples was armed with a knife. Many missionaries had guns in their house.

October 22, 2015

LOL. There are a whole lot of SDA's that not only believe in the 2nd Amendment, but support it whole-heartedly. This idea that Adventism, in general, is against self-defense is a complete fallacy. The Bible doesn't say self-defense is a bad thing, in fact, we see the children of Isreal defending themselves, and God whole-heartedly supporting those actions. God, time after time, led the Israelites in their battles for self-defense.

October 22, 2015

The Bible also says that God told them to destroy all the people, including women and children.....unless they wanted the 'virgins' or 'pretty ones', then they could enslave them or make them their 'wives'.....sound familiar to whats happening today in the world?

The fact of the matter is that the .org has always encouraged a non-combatant role for military service in defense of the country. Official position. Period!!

October 22, 2015

Picking and choosing Bible texts, with out context, is always a tricky thing, tis a pitfall!

October 22, 2015

Many here define themselves as SDA but do not hold "authentic" SDA views.What gives any of you that are not "authentic" the right to condemn Ben Carson. Is it because he is a conservative black? Many question whether Obama is christian and that brings the wrath of liberals both here and generally and usually seen as a racial thing.

October 23, 2015

LOL. There are a whole lot of SDA's that not only believe in the 2nd Amendment, but support it whole-heartedly. This idea that Adventism, in general, is against self-defense is a complete fallacy. The Bible doesn't say self-defense is a bad thing, in fact, we see the children of Isreal defending themselves, and God whole-heartedly supporting those actions. God, time after time, led the Israelites in their battles for self-defense.

I would guess it makes a difference as to whether one just belongs to to an organized group of religious people or whether they choose to identify as a disciple who believes in following the words of Christ.

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.....Matthew 26

11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?...John 18

God is Love!

October 23, 2015

Its a nonsense! Look at the Old Testament history of Israelites. They fought against their enemies! One of Jesus's disciples was armed with a knife. Many missionaries had guns in their house.

LOL. There are a whole lot of SDA's that not only believe in the 2nd Amendment, but support it whole-heartedly. This idea that Adventism, in general, is against self-defense is a complete fallacy. The Bible doesn't say self-defense is a bad thing, in fact, we see the children of Isreal defending themselves, and God whole-heartedly supporting those actions. God, time after time, led the Israelites in their battles for self-defense.

GBU Both whbae and joeb

Interesting points you both made.

Now..

We Follow Christ..

and that thing about a sword or knife.. The Disciples says to Jesus We have two! and Jesus says that's enough. Luke 2:38

two swords and 12 disciples? OH BOY!

not a well oiled military war machine ..if u ask me.

I put up a thread that confronts the hypocrisy of our CHRISTIAN CULTURE

We are called CHRIST ians for a reason!

BTW the OP article came up on my fb feed and someone posted under it " what is an"Authentic" Adventist?

lol!

October 24, 2015

.

We Follow Christ..

and that thing about a sword or knife.. The Disciples says to Jesus We have two! and Jesus says that's enough. Luke 2:38

two swords and 12 disciples? OH BOY!

not a well oiled military war machine ..if u ask me.

I put up a thread that confronts the hypocrisy of our CHRISTIAN CULTURE

We are called CHRIST ians for a reason!

Many here agree with Ted Wilson having armed body guards. I am not against him doing so,but how can he be an authentic adventist? They are there and armed for a reason. Armed means they are prepared to use deadly force in defense of Ted Wilson.

Jesus didn't use deadly force or allow his disciples to in His defense.

Is it unbiblical to defend yourself or family? If you do so are you no longer a authentic adventist? If you do not believe it is right to defend yourself or family what right,if given the opportunity will you call 911 ,knowing they will be fully prepared to do it for you? Including a bullet to the head of the one trying to harm you? You are still guilty.

October 24, 2015

Many here agree with Ted Wilson having armed body guards. I am not against him doing so,but how can he be an authentic adventist? They are there and armed for a reason. Armed means they are prepared to use deadly force in defense of Ted Wilson.

Jesus didn't use deadly force or allow his disciples to in His defense.

Is it unbiblical to defend yourself or family? If you do so are you no longer a authentic adventist? If you do not believe it is right to defend yourself or family what right,if given the opportunity will you call 911 ,knowing they will be fully prepared to do it for you? Including a bullet to the head of the one trying to harm you? You are still guilty.

I saw the thread about Ted Wilson having body guards. The term "Authentic Adventist" is the words used By the Author of the article I put up in the OP.I never thought about that term before.

In my thinking a Seventh Day Adventist is someone who believes the The Ten Commandments are still relevant ..focusing on 7th day of the week as the Sabbath (Fourth Commandment) and waiting for the Advent of Jesus Second Coming! True to the particular title of two Words in the name.

I would hate to see Ted gunned down and then later find out he had death threats and we didn't take precautions. myself.... still very weird to hear in my old fashioned naivety.

Desmond Doss Hero stuff etc.

I know a lady who doesn't believe in locking her door at night cause "the LORD will protect her".. i don't think that way. .. or have that kind of faith or presumption. I am still perplexed by all the guns in Christians hands.

When I see Jesus words and acts I see him vanishing when the rabble get so upset they want to kill him.More than once! God's protection. Oh to have that kind of faith in the FATHER.

Knowing no matter what is goin on in our lives but to Still Trust HIM!

I also hear very clearly when we to love our Enemies. JESUS is so plain in that. To serve even. To hold up others in high esteem.

Enemies of our families and nation and theology and church and values. A lot of enemies out there that God bids us to Love on. Very Overwhelming! I don't do that!

It is a supernatural thing. We cant conjure it up out of ourselves. Some can't even process this kind of theology behind it. But we as Christians do see that in JESUS Life.

.... that old adage WWJD?

We see JESUS not only bein killed by their hands but even dying words forgiving them! I don't have that kind of faith. But it touches me to my core that is How GOD is!

It moves me. It buoys me up. It reaches down into my heart of what wondrous Love is this o my soul, o my soul. That is why i share this pic of GOD.

We all share what jazzes us. what drives us. what is important to us. and here we have a Forum to do that. And we all take advantage of it.

Shout out to Stan! and His Crew! THANK YOU!

[switching gears]

There is a movie and a book called "The Hiding Place" *.. I read the book (6 times?) and all her books (Corrie Ten Boom) and saw the movie many many times.

( I am sure you know of it too )

And these two old matronly pillars who walked with JESUS for decades risked their own lives and home and family and business.. to take in people who were totally marginalized to the point where they were discovered and thrown in Ravensbrook Prison Camp. a smaller Auschwitz is what I gather. They had that faith for self sacrificial Love. Seeing others as God sees them. It was not works it was God's heart reaching out to The apple of His eye!

then........

Corrie herself saw the abuse given to her older frailer sister and had dark murderous thoughts toward this one female guard. She already seen her matronly virgin saint sister (Bessie) raped by a Nazi guard upon them entering that Hell. Corrie left that part about rape out in the book and movie but admitted later in her Testimony of FORGIVENESS.. she gave around the World. But anyway.. Corrie saw herself slippin into darkness wanting to protect her sister. Of course! Bessie saw this and told Corrie two things that ring with me to this day.

1. "You can't protect me..You mustn't try!"

2. "We can't be more than who we are!"

It is true for all of us. As Christians we can't be more than who we are. God knows and sees that and gives GRACE.

And whether we feel we must protect another when their lives are threatened..it must not come at the expense of our hearts turning dark n vengeful.

Jesus loved with a Supernatural Love for his Enemies and told us to reflect HIM ...on the Sermon on the Mount.

Magnifying the LAW.

Which "Authentic Adventists" do espouse.. i thought.

God bless you Bonnie!

Thanku for letting me magnify my thoughts of HIM.

* JESUS is our Hiding Place

Edited October 24, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

October 24, 2015

Just seems to be another variant of the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy, if you ask me....

October 25, 2015

I saw the thread about Ted Wilson having body guards. The term "Authentic Adventist" is the words used By the Author of the article I put up in the OP.I never thought about that term before.

In my thinking a Seventh Day Adventist is someone who believes the The Ten Commandments are still relevant ..focusing on 7th day of the week as the Sabbath (Fourth Commandment) and waiting for the Advent of Jesus Second Coming! True to the particular title of two Words in the name.

I would hate to see Ted gunned down and then later find out he had death threats and we didn't take precautions. myself.... still very weird to hear in my old fashioned naivety.

Desmond Doss Hero stuff etc.

I know a lady who doesn't believe in locking her door at night cause "the LORD will protect her".. i don't think that way. .. or have that kind of faith or presumption. I am still perplexed by all the guns in Christians hands.

When I see Jesus words and acts I see him vanishing when the rabble get so upset they want to kill him.More than once! God's protection. Oh to have that kind of faith in the FATHER.

Knowing no matter what is goin on in our lives but to Still Trust HIM!

I also hear very clearly when we to love our Enemies. JESUS is so plain in that. To serve even. To hold up others in high esteem.

Enemies of our families and nation and theology and church and values. A lot of enemies out there that God bids us to Love on. Very Overwhelming! I don't do that!

It is a supernatural thing. We cant conjure it up out of ourselves. Some can't even process this kind of theology behind it. But we as Christians do see that in JESUS Life.

.... that old adage WWJD?

We see JESUS not only bein killed by their hands but even dying words forgiving them! I don't have that kind of faith. But it touches me to my core that is How GOD is!

It moves me. It buoys me up. It reaches down into my heart of what wondrous Love is this o my soul, o my soul. That is why i share this pic of GOD.

We all share what jazzes us. what drives us. what is important to us. and here we have a Forum to do that. And we all take advantage of it.

Shout out to Stan! and His Crew! THANK YOU!

[switching gears]

There is a movie and a book called "The Hiding Place" *.. I read the book (6 times?) and all her books (Corrie Ten Boom) and saw the movie many many times.

( I am sure you know of it too )

And these two old matronly pillars who walked with JESUS for decades risked their own lives and home and family and business.. to take in people who were totally marginalized to the point where they were discovered and thrown in Ravensbrook Prison Camp. a smaller Auschwitz is what I gather. They had that faith for self sacrificial Love. Seeing others as God sees them. It was not works it was God's heart reaching out to The apple of His eye!

then........

Corrie herself saw the abuse given to her older frailer sister and had dark murderous thoughts toward this one female guard. She already seen her matronly virgin saint sister (Bessie) raped by a Nazi guard upon them entering that Hell. Corrie left that part about rape out in the book and movie but admitted later in her Testimony of FORGIVENESS.. she gave around the World. But anyway.. Corrie saw herself slippin into darkness wanting to protect her sister. Of course! Bessie saw this and told Corrie two things that ring with me to this day.

1. "You can't protect me..You mustn't try!"

2. "We can't be more than who we are!"

It is true for all of us. As Christians we can't be more than who we are. God knows and sees that and gives GRACE.

And whether we feel we must protect another when their lives are threatened..it must not come at the expense of our hearts turning dark n vengeful.

Jesus loved with a Supernatural Love for his Enemies and told us to reflect HIM ...on the Sermon on the Mount.

Magnifying the LAW.

Which "Authentic Adventists" do espouse.. i thought.

God bless you Bonnie!

Thanku for letting me magnify my thoughts of HIM.

* JESUS is our Hiding Place

That is all very touching. Not the point. If Ted Wilson having armed body guards ready to protect him meets with the approval of so many here,why would protecting one's family in the same manner be any different?

If you call on others to do what you believe is morally wrong,and this is what happens if you have the opportunity to call 911,you have lost your moral high ground

They come ready to injure or kill if required to protect the innocent victims.Knowing this,you are just as guilty.

Jesus had a role on earth and that was to die for all. I don't have that role. I don't believe I or my family are required to die at the hands of some loon that decides he has a right to take our lives simply because he can.I can flat out guarantee you if someone were to come after my grandchildren and I had the opportunity I would use whatever means or weapon available. Hopefully an opportunity would present itself to call for help and let the more able and trained take care of it. If the only way was a bullet in the head,so be it.

There is a difference in seeking revenge and protecting your family.

When I see Jesus words and acts I see him vanishing when the rabble get so upset they want to kill him.More than once! God's protection. Oh to have that kind of faith in the FATHER.

The underlined is of course the wisest course if available,but generally those bent on doing someone else harm don't allow that

For those that believe it is morally wrong to protect oneself or family in a physical way,please don't be a hypocrite about it and call on others to do your dirty work,while you show God your clean hands

October 25, 2015

That is all very touching. Not the point. If Ted Wilson having armed body guards ready to protect him meets with the approval of so many here,why would protecting one's family in the same manner be any different?

If you call on others to do what you believe is morally wrong,and this is what happens if you have the opportunity to call 911,you have lost your moral high ground

They come ready to injure or kill if required to protect the innocent victims.Knowing this,you are just as guilty.

Jesus had a role on earth and that was to die for all. I don't have that role. I don't believe I or my family are required to die at the hands of some loon that decides he has a right to take our lives simply because he can.I can flat out guarantee you if someone were to come after my grandchildren and I had the opportunity I would use whatever means or weapon available. Hopefully an opportunity would present itself to call for help and let the more able and trained take care of it. If the only way was a bullet in the head,so be it.

There is a difference in seeking revenge and protecting your family.

When I see Jesus words and acts I see him vanishing when the rabble get so upset they want to kill him.More than once! God's protection. Oh to have that kind of faith in the FATHER.

The underlined is of course the wisest course if available,but generally those bent on doing someone else harm don't allow that

For those that believe it is morally wrong to protect oneself or family in a physical way,please don't be a hypocrite about it and call on others to do your dirty work,while you show God your clean hands

God Bless you,Bonnie!

October 25, 2015

And then there are the stories where the Israelites did not fight but either trusted in the Lord, or He acted for them anyway.

The Israelites were never told to fight their way out of Egypt. God could have helped them win, but that wasn't His goal.

And Jehoshaphat. The story we are to get down if we wish to survive the ToT. If we have not learned to trust in God for our protection now, we certainly won't then either.

I believe that is the key. It seems we neither know, nor trust, God enough to let Him allow us to die if that is His will, or that He is able to save us from....if that also is His will.

Having said that it sure is a lot to live up to.

October 25, 2015

And then there are the stories where the Israelites did not fight but either trusted in the Lord, or He acted for them anyway.

The Israelites were never told to fight their way out of Egypt. God could have helped them win, but that wasn't His goal.

And Jehoshaphat. The story we are to get down if we wish to survive the ToT. If we have not learned to trust in God for our protection now, we certainly won't then either.

I believe that is the key. It seems we neither know, nor trust, God enough to let Him allow us to die if that is His will, or that He is able to save us from....if that also is His will.

Having said that it sure is a lot to live up to.

Thanku for getting this back on track!

Teresa! Amen

everything u said!

a lot to live up too!

I wish you happiness! teresaq

[calm down everyone]

Edited October 25, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

October 25, 2015

No-one needs to leave.

Just all seeking to follow the Golden Rule, and to treat others as we wish to be treated, is plenty.

Perhaps back to topic?

October 25, 2015

I believe that is the key. It seems we neither know, nor trust, God enough to let Him allow us to die if that is His will, or that He is able to save us from....if that also is His will.

Having said that it sure is a lot to live up to.

My two sisters were killed by a drunk driver as we were on our way home from church. You may believe it was God's will that two totally innocent young girls were killed,I don't.

A few years ago a woman in our small town was murdered in her home. Her toddler witnessed the brutal attack. I don't believe it was God's will. Both incidences happened because of the evil acts people do.

If it was God's will,the two guilty parties in these incidences were simply carrying out God's will.

Whether Ted Wilson had armed guards or not really isn't an issue for me. What I don't understand is those that thought that was sensible and yet condemn others for wanting to protect their loved ones

October 25, 2015

I think Dr Carson has been at some pains to portray himself as a mainstream Christian more than a Seventh-day Adventist in the media, having said multiple times that he attends church on Sunday as well as Saturday.

From my own perspective, broadening is not a bad thing...

If I have concerns it is not because he is or isn't SDA, it's specific policy positions he has publicly espoused.

October 25, 2015

Many times people do not listen to (or read) the entire dialogues of the political candidates, and rely only on the media "spin" that gets reported. That happens with candidates for any of the parties. Before I delete a candidate as a possible one I might vote for, I try to get answers from each, to the most salient questions I have. Then I start pruning the political tree, and try to get rid of the nuts.

October 25, 2015

I think Dr Carson has been at some pains to portray himself as a mainstream Christian more than a Seventh-day Adventist in the media, having said multiple times that he attends church on Sunday as well as Saturday.

From my own perspective, broadening is not a bad thing...

If I have concerns it is not because he is or isn't SDA, it's specific policy positions he has publicly espoused.

Yes Bravus! I wish you well.

I agree!

I find the GOP Platform Repugnant..at least on many fronts. To see someone like Ben Carson on the National stage espousing Non Jesus approaches is hard to take..He is representing my Church and this awful post modern Christian Exclusive culture. But not representing my God that I see in JESUS..... That is what so troubling in all this to me.

I have liked this guy for years and respected and even shared his Testimony with great pride and Joy..had no idea this is what he was going to shoot for. And esp. in this manner.

I did see him be more vocal ...looking back!

hmmmm... can't remember what about!

October 25, 2015

"Not an Authentic Adventist"

Have no clue what at 'Authentic Adventist' is. So....me thinks all of this hullabaloo is perhaps focusing on the wrong ideas.
As Rudy said, its more about your own preferences. Could care less about the which party or professed belief system, but rather do they practice what they 'preach'.......that doesn't happen too often, with many of us either.

Edited October 25, 2015 by CoAspen

October 25, 2015

It bears repeating! esp the Purple!

.........................................................

I saw the thread about Ted Wilson having body guards. The term "Authentic Adventist" is the words used By the Author of the article I put up in the OP.I never thought about that term before.

In my thinking a Seventh Day Adventist is someone who believes the The Ten Commandments are still relevant ..focusing on 7th day of the week as the Sabbath (Fourth Commandment) and waiting for the Advent of Jesus Second Coming! True to the particular title of two Words in the name.

I would hate to see Ted gunned down and then later find out he had death threats and we didn't take precautions. myself.... still very weird to hear in my old fashioned naivety.

Desmond Doss Hero stuff etc.

I know a lady who doesn't believe in locking her door at night cause "the LORD will protect her".. i don't think that way. .. or have that kind of faith or presumption. I am still perplexed by all the guns in Christians hands.

When I see Jesus words and acts I see him vanishing when the rabble get so upset they want to kill him.More than once! God's protection. Oh to have that kind of faith in the FATHER.

Knowing no matter what is goin on in our lives but to Still Trust HIM!

I also hear very clearly when we to love our Enemies. JESUS is so plain in that. To serve even. To hold up others in high esteem.

Enemies of our families and nation and theology and church and values. A lot of enemies out there that God bids us to Love on. Very Overwhelming! I don't do that!

It is a supernatural thing. We cant conjure it up out of ourselves. Some can't even process this kind of theology behind it. But we as Christians do see that in JESUS Life.

.... that old adage WWJD?

We see JESUS not only bein killed by their hands but even dying words forgiving them! I don't have that kind of faith. But it touches me to my core that is How GOD is!

It moves me. It buoys me up. It reaches down into my heart of what wondrous Love is this o my soul, o my soul. That is why i share this pic of GOD.

We all share what jazzes us. what drives us. what is important to us. and here we have a Forum to do that. And we all take advantage of it.

Shout out to Stan! and His Crew! THANK YOU!

[switching gears]

There is a movie and a book called "The Hiding Place" *.. I read the book (6 times?) and all her books (Corrie Ten Boom) and saw the movie many many times.

( I am sure you know of it too )

And these two old matronly pillars who walked with JESUS for decades risked their own lives and home and family and business.. to take in people who were totally marginalized to the point where they were discovered and thrown in Ravensbrook Prison Camp. a smaller Auschwitz is what I gather. They had that faith for self sacrificial Love. Seeing others as God sees them. It was not works it was God's heart reaching out to The apple of His eye!

then........

Corrie herself saw the abuse given to her older frailer sister and had dark murderous thoughts toward this one female guard. She already seen her matronly virgin saint sister (Bessie) raped by a Nazi guard upon them entering that Hell. Corrie left that part about rape out in the book and movie but admitted later in her Testimony of FORGIVENESS.. she gave around the World. But anyway.. Corrie saw herself slippin into darkness wanting to protect her sister. Of course! Bessie saw this and told Corrie two things that ring with me to this day.

1. "You can't protect me..You mustn't try!"

2. "We can't be more than who we are!"

It is true for all of us. As Christians we can't be more than who we are. God knows and sees that and gives GRACE.

And whether we feel we must protect another when their lives are threatened..it must not come at the expense of our hearts turning dark n vengeful.

Jesus loved with a Supernatural Love for his Enemies and told us to reflect HIM ...on the Sermon on the Mount.

Magnifying the LAW.

October 25, 2015

It'll be interesting when the Desmond Doss movie 'Hacksaw Ridge' (which owes much to our own Stan Jensen) comes out. It's about the non-violence that used to be mainstream SDA policy. I'm not so sure it is, any more.

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