Ben Carson "Not an Authentic Adventist"

[Stan]

there are military recruiters going to our schools in the US.  Perhaps they go to every school.

I am convince we should joint the military of the place where we have citizenship.  I believe a christian should have his citizenship in heaven.

You can't have your feet in both camps. It will mess up your head.

[Ron Lambert]

None of the Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists that are recounted at baptism have anything to do with the question of bearing arms, or which political party to work with. There are traditions and beliefs that many people have associated with Adventism, but that has no authority. Saying SDAs have to be conscientious objectors (or the more popular "conscientious co-operators") has no more weight than saying that all SDAs have to be vegetarians. Our religion is not that dictatorial! When I was drafted during the Vietnam War, even though I was a Seventh-day Adventist, I decided that I would bear arms and use deadly force to oppose the evil of communist tyranny. As it turned out, I was granted an exemption because I had a history of childhood asthma, and had been hospitalized with pneumonia four times by the time I was ten years old. But I believed that taking up arms would be perfectly in harmony with my faith, and anyone who sees it differently can answer to God for their willingness to allow evil to go unchallenged in the world. I did consider it worth risking my life to oppose it. I still blame liberal Democrats for losing the war after it had already been won, and thus betraying the people of South Vietnam and all those who gave their lives on the battlefield.

[Stan]

This is why I also proclaim that we need Religious Liberty inside the Church as well.

 

I have made that statement here, and on Facebook.

 

 

[Ron Lambert]

Ellen G. White encouraged SDAs to take an active part in the Temperance movement, joining with other religious groups in the effort. She even said we should vote on the Sabbath over the issue, if we had to.

[Ron Lambert]

This is why I also proclaim that we need Religious Liberty inside the Church as well.

 

I have made that statement here, and on Facebook.

I will state it even more forcefully. People need to get the Pope out of their own hearts, before they presume to warn anyone against the Pope in Rome.

 

[Stan]

I really dislike "blank is not a true Adventist"  entrance into heaven is not a written exam.

I remember a publishing leader proclaim that another leader "Did not believe in the spirt of Prophecy (meaning EGW)" because they disagreed on what she meant by a certain phrase.

 

We are NOT to be cookie cutter Christians or Adventists.

There are some core and common believes we hold to be true. But people can be a fellow adventist and not agree with me on them.

We all need to be convinced in our minds of what is Biblical True.  AND we are need to journey together and support one another in these teachings.

 

Few of those pioneers who started this work, who responded to the calling, would be allowed to be members today.

[Guest]

Hines and Carpenter are hardly the Lewis and Clark I would send to find the mainstream of Adventism. Like many here, they are so far beyond the left bank they no longer know the difference between their own perspiration and the actual river.

[teresaq]

When I say "God's will" I mean God chooses not to intervene in some miraculous or magical manner and save people from what will happen for whatever reasons. I understand we are all literalists to some degree and therefore have a hard time seeing  that is what it means.

Like the Maccabees we then choose to be our own savior. "If God won't step in and do what I want, then I will."  Jesus said to turn the other cheek and He, then later His apostles and followers, lived that.  But hey, I also have said I had no intention of turning the other cheek. Not sure how that made me a Christian, or how justifying being determined to save myself or loved ones no matter what the means rather than believe and trust that God has His reasons for allowing or preventing what and when He chooses makes me a Christian either.  But I certainly do understand wanting my cake and eating it too. I want to claim to be a Christian but pick and choose what I will live by.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Our friend in the op has misrepresented the position of the SDA Church and what it means to be an authentic Adventist.

[teresaq]

Just all seeking to follow the Golden Rule, and to treat others as we wish to be treated, is plenty.

I have found that is subjective to say the least.

Calling good evil and evil good comes to mind as I've seen bullies claim anyone calling them on their behavior are abusing them. 

Or the enabling Co-des.

Or....

[Stan]

 I like what John Loughborough said here.

[pierrepaul]

SdAism is a large tent. Some wish to diminish the size of the tent. I prefer the "large tent" approach. The quotation Stan posted above also militates in favour of the "large tent" point of view.

[joeb]

As I've read this thread I have pondered over how much the ability to think logically has declined.  Why?  Because of the positions taken.  To conflate the stand the church has taken on the issue of military service and self-defense as has been done on this thread is quite a large logical fallacy.   The church took the stand it does because it is the responsibility of the church to defend the consciences of its members.  It knows some, but not all, members of the SDA church would never kill to defend their country and to be forced to do so would violate the consciences of those members.  Nowhere does the church say, nor has it ever said, that all SDA's must be conscious objectors if they go into the military.  To do so would violate the consciences of another group of their members. 

Also, nowhere has the church taken the hypcritical position that it doesn't think anyone, inside or outside the church, has the right to defend themselves and their families.  Why would that by hypocritical?  Because the right to self-defense comes from the same Constitution that we, as a church and as individuals, look to when we assert the right to religious liberty. 

To destroy one right is to destroy them all.  Ben Carson, as a logical person, understands this.  It's quite clear that a lot of people on this forum do not or they would not make the arguments that they do.  Liberty of conscience is the hallmark of liberty, and there seem to be a lot of people who do not understand this for both the right of self-defense and to worship as we please are matters of consciences.  Wake up people and start thinking.  Our liberties are disappearing almost daily now, and if you don't stand up for them, they will soon be entirely gone.

Liberty of conscience is also the hallmark of God's government.  Why would you want to oppose His government?