SUFFERING

[Wingnut]

2 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The prophecy is that - in the forever Kingdom -  "the lion will eat straw like the ox" .  "The child will put his hand into the cobra's hole."  "The wolf will lie down with the lamb."  So it seems that the behavior and even diet of animals, changes with their living conditions.  So there will still BE lions, and wolves, and cobras - they just will not harm either other animals, or people. 

Dr Baugh has demonstrated with the hyperbarric biosphere, that rattle snakes venom becomes non-poisonous after a few weeks in 2 times normal atmospheric pressure. 

As these animals are now, who made them?

[JoeMo]

Who made the process by which we make alcoholic beverages?  Who made marijuana?  Who made opium poppies or coca plants?  I personally don't believe that satan has creative powers.  He may, however have the intelligence to manipulate genes for his evil intent.  What God has created for good, satan - with the cooperation of man - has abused and turned into a curse.  That , to me, is at least a partial reason for suffering. 

[JoeMo]

22 hours ago, teresaq said:

But we may still be able to describe to future creation how sick and ugly it was here, the pedophilia, child abuse in all its forms, millions of children on the street worldwide prey to all, while the well-to-do for the most part remain in our comfort zones. (I'm far from well-to-do but could probably do and give more than I do)  We will describe every form of suffering people are enduring down here, and that God's way really is the only way to live and be happy.

Hi teresaq,

I think that over time, our memories of how much life sucked here will eventually fade.

“See, I will create
    new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
    nor will they come to mind." (Isaiah 65:17)

Honestly, I hope that the memory of things like my son dying, having cancer, my daughter having cancer, etc. does fade.

[LifeHiscost]

29 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

 

“See, I will create
    new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
    nor will they come to mind." (Isaiah 65:17)

Honestly, I hope that the memory of things like my son dying, having cancer, my daughter having cancer, etc. does fade.

4But when Jesus heard about it he said, “Lazarus’s sickness will not end in death. No, it happened for the glory of God so that the Son of God will receive glory from this.” 5So although Jesus loved Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, 6he stayed where he was for the next two days. 7Finally, he said to his disciples, “Let’s go back to Judea.”

8But his disciples objected. “Rabbi,” they said, “only a few days ago the people^b in Judea were trying to stone you. Are you going there again?”

9Jesus replied, “There are twelve hours of daylight every day. During the day people can walk safely. They can see because they have the light of this world. 10But at night there is danger of stumbling because they have no light.” 11Then he said, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up.”

12The disciples said, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will soon get better!” 13They thought Jesus meant Lazarus was simply sleeping, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died.

14So he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15And for your sakes, I’m glad I wasn’t there, for now you will really believe. Come, let’s go see him.”

16Thomas, nicknamed the Twin,^c said to his fellow disciples, “Let’s go, too—and die with Jesus.”

17When Jesus arrived at Bethany, he was told that Lazarus had already been in his grave for four days. 18Bethany was only a few miles^d down the road from Jerusalem, 19and many of the people had come to console Martha and Mary in their loss. 20When Martha got word that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him. But Mary stayed in the house. 21Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if only you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask.”

23Jesus told her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24“Yes,” Martha said, “he will rise when everyone else rises, at the last day.”

25Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life.^e Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. 26Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”

27“Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God.” 28Then she returned to Mary. She called Mary aside from the mourners and told her, “The Teacher is here and wants to see you.” 29So Mary immediately went to him.

30Jesus had stayed outside the village, at the place where Martha met him. 31When the people who were at the house consoling Mary saw her leave so hastily, they assumed she was going to Lazarus’s grave to weep. So they followed her there. 32When Mary arrived and saw Jesus, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if only you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33When Jesus saw her weeping and saw the other people wailing with her, a deep anger welled up within him,^f and he was deeply troubled. 34“Where have you put him?” he asked them.

They told him, “Lord, come and see.” 35Then Jesus wept. 36The people who were standing nearby said, “See how much he loved him!” 37But some said, “This man healed a blind man. Couldn’t he have kept Lazarus from dying?”

38Jesus was still angry as he arrived at the tomb, a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance. 39“Roll the stone aside,” Jesus told them.

But Martha, the dead man’s sister, protested, “Lord, he has been dead for four days. The smell will be terrible.”

40Jesus responded, “Didn’t I tell you that you would see God’s glory if you believe?” 41So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, thank you for hearing me. 42You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so that they will believe you sent me.” 43Then Jesus shouted, “Lazarus, come out!” 44And the dead man came out, his hands and feet bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, “Unwrap him and let him go!”....John 11

…54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" .....1 Corinthians 15

God is Love!~Jesus saves!      

 

[teresaq]

16 hours ago, Wingnut said:

Now it's just a bad translation when it does not agree with your theology?

 

I don't like being falsely accused when you have no proof, nor have I made a statement, that any particular translation was good or bad, but merely pointed out that it was a translation and not the original. Which to decent folk means what it says.

Others are welcome to reward bad behavior, but I don't choose to.

We're done.

[Wingnut]

23 hours ago, Wingnut said:

Tyrannosaurus rex, owls, thistles, poison ivy, panda's, cobra's, deer, crocodiles, lions, malaria, ticks, pigs, spiders, flies, tares, marijuana, squirrels, leaches, mold, vampire bats, syphilis.

Please tell me which of these God created, and which Satan made. 

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[Wingnut]

2 hours ago, teresaq said:

I don't like being falsely accused when you have no proof, nor have I made a statement, that any particular translation was good or bad, but merely pointed out that it was a translation and not the original. Which to decent folk means what it says.

Others are welcome to reward bad behavior, but I don't choose to.

We're done.

You are done, because you have no decent answers, and want to stick your head back in the sand.

Don't pretend your answers were some kind of reward to me.

Someone who teaches me some new truth, now that is my reward.

But you are like so many who are fast asleep, having happy dreams of Bambi and butterflies.  Sweet dreams.

[Wingnut]

41 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

and almost all things that HE has made has been changed as soon as Satan got control of it. Come on Just put the thinking cap on. No need to wrest scripture to make a false implication. God doesnt operate like that and neither should we. God would not use His own Word to condemn Himself. Onliy errant humans would try that trick

The fact that every animal behaves as Jesus created it, does not mean that He condemns Himself.  Only you are thinking that if this is true, God condemns Himself.  To me, every critter, no matter how bad we may classify it, attests to the glory of God.

Your "Let's blame Satan for everything" ascribes far too much power to Satan, power and glory which I refuse to ascribe to him.

 

He has power to deceive, not to change organisms to make plants grow thorns, and snakes have venom.

You have ZERO proof Satan did this, whereas I quoted how ALL things were created by Christ.  Are you saying Christ made zero parasites, ticks, fleas etc?  Again, you ascribe great power to Satan, which I am sure Satan would love to be thought of as having.

[Wingnut]

31 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

So you are a Bambi Hater. Bambyphobia Syndrome. It is a serious condition for one to be in.And you say that God does not approve of "sweet dreams? I think you are quite wrong again. God has told us "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"  (Acts 2:17). Those dreams sound a lot sweeter to me that the accusations of many of us "being fast asleep," Judge us by righteous judgment please.

 

I am more of a red herring hater than a Bambi hater.

[Wingnut]

Wanderer, how can you like my post above, when that post disagrees with you?

Does that mean that you have changed your mind?

[Wingnut]

I do not believe in the concept of a "fallen world" or man having a "fallen nature".   Shock, horror, bring the smelling salts.

Folks have been so brainwashed that this concept is "normal" to their thinking.

Adam was sinless, then he sinned and was then guilty.  The only change to Adam's mind was that he felt guilt, and believed lies that Satan told him, that he should feel inferior because he was naked.

Babies are born sinless, then they sin and are guilty.

 

Eden was a tame place on the East of a and called Eden, which in turn was a place in the world.  In this rest of the world, animals were EXACTLY the same as we see today, what religious folks mistakenly call "fallen".  No, they were just nature as God created it now.

 

Yes, one day in Christ's kingdom, and when there is a new heaven and earth, there will be lions laying with lambs, and asps with no venom.  But this state NEVER existed in any of earth's past.

[Wingnut]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

You have zero proof that Satan did not do it.

I don't have to prove Bigfoot exists, you do.

[Wingnut]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

 God would not use His own Word to condemn Himself. Onliy errant humans would try that trick

Show me one place in the Bible where Satan modified an organism.

I will show you hundreds of scriptures where Satan has power to SUGGEST things which we can buy into or reject.

Satan and the demons BIGGEST ISSUE is that they have no power to touch creation, except where God specifically allows, such as to harm Job's family. But even here, no species were modified.  That is why demons possess humans so that they can use them as the demon's feet and hands and mouth.

[Kevin H]

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 10:27 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Why did the LORD allow sooooooo much pain ?  Was it somehow because of His law?

Eve was deceived, and ate the fruit.  Adam was not deceived, but could not bear to be without Eve.  And the LORD allowed His great enemy to take over dominion of the entire earth.  Had not Satan already rebelled against the LORD.  What made him legally able to take over??

Why would the LORD allow Satan (the greatest rebel) to take dominion FROM Adam - because of Adam's rebellion?

Once again I cannot understress the importance of the 3 chapters: Why was sin permitted, the origin of evil and It is finished. How I wish the White Estate would release a book with just these 3 chapters (and maybe the one on Gethsemane). God fully understands evil. We don't. God could have used Lucifer's questions to give him a deeper mental understanding of evil, and he could have become professor of evil at New Jerusalem Union College.

However the mystery of iniquity is that Lucifer did not look for answers to his questions. He stopped at congratulating himself to be so wise as to come up with these clever questions.

God is the only source of life. If we separate from him then it is like a light  coming from a light bulb when the cord is unplugged. But Lucifer made it look like it was God who had to impose a punishment against sin. He did not realize that it was a natural result. Thus as sin entered the universe God worked long and slow with it so that there would be a clear understanding. First this world was used for the angels and beings on other worlds to do experiments with as they were deciding which side of the great controversy to join. We think that the angels and unfallen worlds had it easier than us. No, no, no... And they have been dealing with it for possibly  billions of years (which is one reason why the earth looks so old). They had to make decisions based on faith. Once all of them had decided which side to be on based on faith, then they got to see the first bit of proof when this world was all chaotic and dark and God's spirit hovered over the chaos and said "Let there be light" and gave them that special week that showed that God was indeed creator.

But even though they choose sides, they still did not close their probation until the cross.

8thdaypriest told some powerful stories of family members. God understands our pain and the horrors. On the one hand could you imagine how much worst the holocaust would have been if it either started or at least continued one year longer than it did with the atomic age? Hitler was stopped right on the verge of the atomic age. And how many nations were afraid to end up doing what Hitler did? If we did not have him human nature could well have lead to a holocaust with microwaves and radiation and all sorts of nasty's that we were spared do to the evil that was allowed to be done just prior to entering the atomic age.

As for the victims; God knows all the hurt and pain. Just because they claim to be atheists and try in different ways to numb their pain does not mean that they are truly rejecting God. It may be a way of reaching out in pain, and if they could have seen Jesus on earth would have reached out to him for healing.

At the end God treats us all the same. Many people like the ones you described could just end up crying on his shoulder and have him finally wipe the tears out of their eyes.

Our job is to listen and to reach out and care. We are going through a horrible time so that sin will not rise up again.

 

[teresaq]

On 12/24/2015 at 9:21 PM, teresaq said:

On 12/19/2015 at 11:02 AM, The Wanderer said:

I have found that it is mostly better to not "explain" suffering to people. Whats more important is how each individual is perceiving the suffering, and how best we can meet them where they are at. But we tend to like our "explaining" and our "lists" a lot more, maybe because that is easier. The thing that helps me the most with the chronic pain I have, is just having people in my life who won't try to change me with their "explaining," but will just help where the help is needed.I find that most of the "explaining" people send my way is meaningless. For eg, I have one friend who has not tried to "explain" my suffering to me. He just lets me use his work shop when I am able, and while I am making something out of barn wood, or other material, I whine away for a while and he just listens. That kind of thing has helped me far more than all the "explaining" in the world. I dont feel the slightest need for any kind of "explanation" for my suffering after an afternoon like that.

Pretty much!

I think your story probably shows the way God is better than all the talking about Him could ever do.  Bet it wipes away a multitude of false beliefs about Him.   

[teresaq]

48 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

Once again I cannot understress the importance of the 3 chapters: Why was sin permitted, the origin of evil and It is finished. How I wish the White Estate would release a book with just these 3 chapters (and maybe the one on Gethsemane). God fully understands evil. We don't. God could have used Lucifer's questions to give him a deeper mental understanding of evil, and he could have become professor of evil at New Jerusalem Union College.

However the mystery of iniquity is that Lucifer did not look for answers to his questions. He stopped at congratulating himself to be so wise as to come up with these clever questions.

God is the only source of life. If we separate from him then it is like a light  coming from a light bulb when the cord is unplugged. But Lucifer made it look like it was God who had to impose a punishment against sin. He did not realize that it was a natural result. Thus as sin entered the universe God worked long and slow with it so that there would be a clear understanding. First this world was used for the angels and beings on other worlds to do experiments with as they were deciding which side of the great controversy to join. We think that the angels and unfallen worlds had it easier than us. No, no, no... And they have been dealing with it for possibly  billions of years (which is one reason why the earth looks so old). They had to make decisions based on faith. Once all of them had decided which side to be on based on faith, then they got to see the first bit of proof when this world was all chaotic and dark and God's spirit hovered over the chaos and said "Let there be light" and gave them that special week that showed that God was indeed creator.

But even though they choose sides, they still did not close their probation until the cross.

8thdaypriest told some powerful stories of family members. God understands our pain and the horrors. On the one hand could you imagine how much worst the holocaust would have been if it either started or at least continued one year longer than it did with the atomic age? Hitler was stopped right on the verge of the atomic age. And how many nations were afraid to end up doing what Hitler did? If we did not have him human nature could well have lead to a holocaust with microwaves and radiation and all sorts of nasty's that we were spared do to the evil that was allowed to be done just prior to entering the atomic age.

As for the victims; God knows all the hurt and pain. Just because they claim to be atheists and try in different ways to numb their pain does not mean that they are truly rejecting God. It may be a way of reaching out in pain, and if they could have seen Jesus on earth would have reached out to him for healing.

At the end God treats us all the same. Many people like the ones you described could just end up crying on his shoulder and have him finally wipe the tears out of their eyes.

Our job is to listen and to reach out and care. We are going through a horrible time so that sin will not rise up again.

 

Now that was one....of a keeper! Like I said elsewhere, you are on a roll! 

[perks]

Hello 8thdaypriest, I feel sorry for the suffering you're going through. If I were to have such suffering, I would probably lose hope because I'm weak. You are a strong person and to be able to go through it all, is already a miracle. Often times when I have problems in my life, I always remember this Bible verse: 

No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. - 1 Corinthians 10:13

I think that all this suffering is because of sin which is from Satan because God would never want to do this to us. As we know, our faith will be tested and we will be condemned to the last minute that's why we really need to put God first in our lives I believe. I guess everything requires faith in Him that He will bring us through everything. I also like to remember that faith can move mountains! Will be praying for you.

[8thdaypriest]

12 hours ago, Wingnut said:

The fact that every animal behaves as Jesus created it, does not mean that He condemns Himself.  Only you are thinking that if this is true, God condemns Himself.  To me, every critter, no matter how bad we may classify it, attests to the glory of God.

Your "Let's blame Satan for everything" ascribes far too much power to Satan, power and glory which I refuse to ascribe to him.

 

He has power to deceive, not to change organisms to make plants grow thorns, and snakes have venom.

You have ZERO proof Satan did this, whereas I quoted how ALL things were created by Christ.  Are you saying Christ made zero parasites, ticks, fleas etc?  Again, you ascribe great power to Satan, which I am sure Satan would love to be thought of as having.

I believe THE FLOOD changed almost EVERYTHING.  Humans aged more quickly.  Everything from bacteria to dinosaurs adapted to the changed conditions.  There was a great sea covering 3/4th of the planet, when there was not one before.   Weather patterns changed.  Droughts, famines, etc. etc. etc.  The FLOOD brought tremendous suffering to what was left of the creation.  "Man that is born of woman is of few day and full of trouble."  (Solomon)

The question is:  WHY did the LORD allow the flood?    WE only have a few clues.   Personally, I believe that the LORD came within a hairs breadth of loosing humanity.  The only way to save ANY humans, and to win the "war" with Satan, was to allow the destruction of all but 8 humans, and almost wreck the earth, and to shorten lifespans. 

The fact that God ALLOWED the flood, means that He is responsible for the suffering that followed - to a point.  He allowed the FLOOD because almost all of the people alive on earth - pre-flood - told God to "depart from us" .  God complied with their request, even though He KNEW what would happen.  

I wonder what sins the pre-flood people were committing.  The LORD did now allow the destruction of Judah until they were sacrificing their own children to Baal.  Makes me think the antediluvians were abusing their children, and probably animals too.  

I think of it like a mother who supports her abusive drug addicted daughter.  She pays the house payment, and buys the food, etc. etc. etc.  Only to have her daughter steal from her purse, and use Mom's credit card for her boyfriend.  Finally she kicks her daughter out, who then complains that she is suffering, living on the street, half starved.   She then gets pregnant, and expects her mother to support her and the baby.  The mother gets legal custody of the baby, whereupon the daughter gets pregnant again.  You see where this is going......... 

Just like that mother, the LORD has to practice "tough love" sometimes, allowing us AND our kids, to suffer the consequences. 

I boils down to evidence FOR God's love.  We must find enough evidence FOR His love, to sustain us until we can be delivered out of this painful age.  We are "strangers in the earth".  We are wandering through a wilderness - a "world of woe" (as the song says) waiting to cross Jordan. 

I have kept a journal each year, since 1980 - the year I "met" Jesus.  Over those years I experienced, or witnessed some 24 miracles.  Those miracles convinced me that my God does love us, and does care about our personal circumstances.  Those miracles have kept me going, through the painful times.    Those miracles convinced my husband that God is REAL, and that He loves us.  Those miracles were not something I read in a book.  They were real, and personal. 

I think what we NEED today - is more miracles. 

[8thdaypriest]

I will share just one miracle story. 

My husband's mother had a bad stroke.  My husband was hurrying to the airport to catch a flight, to be there with his Mom.  He was on the freeway, maybe 10 miles from the airport.  A loud voice suddenly yelled at him.  "Get off the freeway.  Now!!!"  He was almost at an off-ramp.  At the bottom of the off-ramp, he stop and looked around.  "WHAT was THAT!!!"  He felt kinda stupid.  He drove a little way along the access road, looking for a place to get back up on the freeway.  Looking up, he suddenly saw LOTS of police cars.  The whole freeway was blocked off.  There had been a shooting, and there was a body up there.  He stayed on the access road the rest of the way to the airport.  As soon as he got to the airport, the first thing he did was to call  me.  "God spoke to me!!!!"   (I had told him in the past, a couple of times, when the LORD had actually said something to me.)  

That miracle changed my husband.  He became convinced that God cares, even about him catching a flight to be with his sick mother.  He has never changed his mind, for some 25 years since that miracle, even through some very painful times.     

[Wingnut]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I believe THE FLOOD changed almost EVERYTHING.  Humans aged more quickly.  Everything from bacteria to dinosaurs adapted to the changed conditions.  There was a great sea covering 3/4th of the planet, when there was not one before.   Weather patterns changed.  Droughts, famines, etc. etc. etc.  The FLOOD brought tremendous suffering to what was left of the creation.  "Man that is born of woman is of few day and full of trouble."  (Solomon)

The question is:  WHY did the LORD allow the flood?    WE only have a few clues.   Personally, I believe that the LORD came within a hairs breadth of loosing humanity.  The only way to save ANY humans, and to win the "war" with Satan, was to allow the destruction of all but 8 humans, and almost wreck the earth, and to shorten lifespans. 

The fact that God ALLOWED the flood, means that He is responsible for the suffering that followed - to a point.  He allowed the FLOOD because almost all of the people alive on earth - pre-flood - told God to "depart from us" .  God complied with their request, even though He KNEW what would happen.  

I wonder what sins the pre-flood people were committing.  The LORD did now allow the destruction of Judah until they were sacrificing their own children to Baal.  Makes me think the antediluvians were abusing their children, and probably animals too.  

I think of it like a mother who supports her abusive drug addicted daughter.  She pays the house payment, and buys the food, etc. etc. etc.  Only to have her daughter steal from her purse, and use Mom's credit card for her boyfriend.  Finally she kicks her daughter out, who then complains that she is suffering, living on the street, half starved.   She then gets pregnant, and expects her mother to support her and the baby.  The mother gets legal custody of the baby, whereupon the daughter gets pregnant again.  You see where this is going......... 

Just like that mother, the LORD has to practice "tough love" sometimes, allowing us AND our kids, to suffer the consequences. 

I boils down to evidence FOR God's love.  We must find enough evidence FOR His love, to sustain us until we can be delivered out of this painful age.  We are "strangers in the earth".  We are wandering through a wilderness - a "world of woe" (as the song says) waiting to cross Jordan. 

I have kept a journal each year, since 1980 - the year I "met" Jesus.  Over those years I experienced, or witnessed some 24 miracles.  Those miracles convinced me that my God does love us, and does care about our personal circumstances.  Those miracles have kept me going, through the painful times.    Those miracles convinced my husband that God is REAL, and that He loves us.  Those miracles were not something I read in a book.  They were real, and personal. 

I think what we NEED today - is more miracles. 

I really like your post.

But to be a bit of a terrier on this one issue - nowhere do I see in the Bible Satan ever given power to change creatures.  Deceive - Yes.

So it does not jar at all that this is totally and utterly God's world.  The only perfect place was Eden.  Outside that, it was exactly as we see today, which is exactly as we see it always was in the fossil record.  Creatures ate each other.

 

It is a misunderstanding of Paul to think that death only entered the world with Adam.  Human death entered then, and not even then but 900 years later.

Which in itself is food for thought, because before the death which Adam was to experience, a lamb died, Abel died, probably more sacrifices each year etc.

I believe in personal miracles, and have experienced some, but all tiny ones not worth mentioning - nothing like yours.  But they do reassure one that one is in communication with God.

[Stan]

I do not want to side track this important topic... (and then people sat the word but or however)

Hoever I do wonder what ADAM felt like when the first leaf fell off of a tree.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

I do not want to side track this important topic... (and then people sat the word but or however)

Hoever I do wonder what ADAM felt like when the first leaf fell off of a tree.

I remember Mrs. White says they mourned.

[LifeHiscost]

44 minutes ago, Stan said:

I do not want to side track this important topic... (and then people sat the word but or however)

Hoever I do wonder what ADAM felt like when the first leaf fell off of a tree.

Probably beyond being very sad and embarrassed, not nearly suffering as much as he felt when he first learned Cain slew his younger brother.

That story makes it plain why our Father in Heaven finds it absolutely necessary to eliminate the unrepentant from an eternal life of anguish.

44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies....John 8:44

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

When we in America are somewhat perturbed upon receiving obvious slights, it is good to think of others not so fortunate.

  

	Farshid Fathi
			Location: Iran (Islamic Republic of) Arrested: December 2010 Praise God for the release of Farshid Fathi, who spent five years in prison for his Christian faith. Iranian authorities released him on Dec. 21, 2015, just in time to celebrate Christmas with his wife and daughters. Farshid was arrested on Dec. 26, 2010 as part of a crackdown on believers and charged with “acting against national security.” His sentence was expected to end in December 2017, but Farshid received notification that he would be released at the end of this month

 

8  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. ...James 1

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Wingnut]

6 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Of course, this forum allows freedom of expression, or just silence, or anywhere in between.You dont have to prove anything. I would ask you to prove your statement. But you dont have to reply, or "provide evidence."  My point was simply that hat I am seeing in the Bible, as it details the great controversy between Christ and Satan, it pretty well jumps right out at us how the devil incrementally is changing/destroying everything he can get his never-satisfied hands on. You would have to reject parts of the Bible in order to hold your position on this topic.which, of course you are free to also do, or not do.

It doesnt make Biblical sense that this is true. There is nothing wrong with identifying and warning others about your common enemy. It ascribes/gives Satan no power when we do this. It only gives us power as we seek to carry out His will, and follow His word. Satan does not "create" in a technical sense, but he does have power to destroy, and sometimes he does this through making things change (for the worse)

When it comes to suffering we see evidence all over the place via changing and ruining of the world around us, including. It is in this sense the devil "creates."

Bigfoot, or in this case, the idea that Satan can modify plants and animals, is unproven.  Read what you wrote.

So I will continue believing the following...

John 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And you can go on believing that Satan has more power than he has.  Do a concordance search on Satan and you will see the true limit to his power.  And everything he does is with God's permission.  So if Satan is doing it as the agent of God, then it would be God doing it anyway.

And if you look at the fossil record, animals like T. rex were eating other dinosaurs 65 million years ago.  And this was before the "fall".

Go back to any time in the fossil record, and look at their big teeth.  Do the maths.  These teeth were not for smiling.