How and when does Satan personate Christ?

[Alchemy]

Blessings everyone.

I hope I am in the right place with this topic. I didn't see a forum just for prophecy.

Anyway. How and when will Satan personate Christ in these last days?

 

[phkrause]

Here's a sermon by Pr Doug Batchelor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT2eydEyZPs

[JoeMo]

That was actually a pretty good sermon.  I didn't agree with it all; but I appreciate Doug B.  His conclusion was absolutely correct.  It's not what you know, it's who you know.

Kinda weird; I saw 3 people in this video that were among my best friends when I lived in Los Lunas, NM.

[phkrause]

37 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Kinda weird; I saw 3 people in this video that were among my best friends when I lived in Los Lunas, NM.

[JoeMo]

What is dispeism? I googled it and got no hits.

Yes; I believe that the antichrist openly reveals himself just before the mark of the beast is enforced.  Yes, EGW has something to say about it.  So do a lot of other inspired writers.  EGW interpreted visions and scripture in light of prevailing Protestant theology; which was very anti-Catholic.  In light of the current "signs of the times", I am increasingly doubtful that the RCC and papacy are the main actors in the end times.  I don't see marauding legions of Catholics going around in the Middle East beheading Christians and everyone else who crosses their idealogical path.

[JoeMo]

2 Thes. 2:1-4 - "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, ² not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. ³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness^[a] is revealed,the man doomed to destruction. ⁴ He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Isaiah 14:12-14 - "How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!  You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!  You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens I will raise my throne above the stars of God I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.   I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”

Matt. 24:4-5, 23-25 - Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ...  At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.  For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you ahead of time."

And that's just for starters.

[LifeHiscost]

4 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Matt. 24:4-5, 23-25 - Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ...  At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.  For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you ahead of time."--Joemo

Matthew 24 does not provide specifics to a Satan impersonation. The verse is still true without it.

I would suggest the time is when, at least at a motivational level, whenever the antichrist is active.

7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.....2 John 1

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[phkrause]

19 hours ago, JoeMo said:

What is dispeism? I googled it and got no hits.

Yes; I believe that the antichrist openly reveals himself just before the mark of the beast is enforced.  Yes, EGW has something to say about it.  So do a lot of other inspired writers.  EGW interpreted visions and scripture in light of prevailing Protestant theology; which was very anti-Catholic.  In light of the current "signs of the times", I am increasingly doubtful that the RCC and papacy are the main actors in the end times.  I don't see marauding legions of Catholics going around in the Middle East beheading Christians and everyone else who crosses their idealogical path.

I see no one that is anti-Catholic! When I say that I mean our leaders, pastors, evangelists, etc. Oh there might some of the people in our church that are like that, but otherwise I don't see it  As they have said for many years, its the system not the people. Every single thing about this system fits the RCC to a tee. They think of changing times, laws, etc. There's nothing about marauding legions of any kind killing people! As we get closer and closer to "Sunday" laws, it wont be Islam changing the day all must worship, since there day is Friday. No one considers Friday as a Sabbath, not even Islam. Its just a day they took because they didn't want anything to do with the Jews. But yet the RCC did change that day from the Sabbath of the Bible to there day of Sunday, and they talk about it in all there writings. They even call the Protestants out on that!!

[8thdaypriest]

2 Thessalonians 2:4  "he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (NKJ)

Anciently only one person was allowed to SIT within the Temple precincts.   That was the King - the anointed Son of David.  This alone should tell us who the "son of perdition" is pretending to be. 

He will "make fire come down out of heaven" (Revelation 13:13). 

This was the sign of the LORD’s presence for ancient Israel (Lev. 9:24, Num. 16:35, I Ki. 18:38, 2Chron 7:1).  The “fire” consumed the sacrifice on the alter in the court of the Temple.  This scenario requires a Temple, and the restoration of animal sacrifices. 

I wrote a study about a third Temple of Yahweh at Jerusalem, being built BEFORE the return of Christ.  I believe Satan will personate Christ - standing in THAT Temple.  The Temple Mount WAS "the holy place". 

Here's the link:  http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/40k-%20Another%20Temple.pdf

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand),”

It says "IN the holy PLACE".  I believe that will be the Temple. 

I believe that Satan's use of God's Temple for His deception, using what is God's to deceive the people into worshipping him - that will be the point when Satan crosses the line.  He will be "weighed in the balances and found wanting".  The "court will be seated" in Heaven (Dan. 7:9-10), and Satan's dominion will be taken from him, and given to Christ.  Christ will then immediately come back to earth, to destroy Satan's kingdom.

Millions of Christians - all over the world, have seen the "left behind" movie, and read the books.  They are EXPECTING another Temple. 

 

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, phkrause said:

I see no one that is anti-Catholic! When I say that I mean our leaders, pastors, evangelists, etc. Oh there might some of the people in our church that are like that, but otherwise I don't see it  As they have said for many years, its the system not the people. Every single thing about this system fits the RCC to a tee. They think of changing times, laws, etc. There's nothing about marauding legions of any kind killing people! As we get closer and closer to "Sunday" laws, it wont be Islam changing the day all must worship, since there day is Friday. No one considers Friday as a Sabbath, not even Islam. Its just a day they took because they didn't want anything to do with the Jews. But yet the RCC did change that day from the Sabbath of the Bible to there day of Sunday, and they talk about it in all there writings. They even call the Protestants out on that!!

I admit that the papacy will likely play some role in the end times; but IMHO it will be a supporting role; not a lead role.  I believe the papacy (as a symbol of fallen Christianity) is probably the harlot on the beast of Rev. 17; and we see what happens to the harlot - she is killed by the 10 horns.

12 hours ago, Kdogae86 said:

So far the verses provided haven't proven an impersonation of Christ by Satan. Are there any more verses to study?

The verses provided so far only proved that there would be false messiahs but not necessarily of Satan himself, that Satan was cast out of heaven, and a man of lawlessness would set up a false form of worship.

Isaiah 14:12-14, while not specifically naming satan, is a strong implication that it is satan who sets himself up as God.  It talks of the morning star being cast down to earth.  Peter speaks of satan roaming the earth, seeking whom he can devour.  Revelation speaks of satan and his angels being cast down to earth - woe on the earth.

While these verses may not specify that satan in the final antichrist, it sure documents the manifest and active presence of satan and his demons on the planet in a way that we have not yet experienced him.

[JoeMo]

3 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Revelation 12 says Satan was cast down to Earth before the birth of Christ so by itself Satan being cast down to Earth is not evidence of impersonation.

Satan has been doing this for a long time. This is not an end time event.

How can you conclude that satan was thrown down to earth prior to the birth of Christ.  If I read 12:5 - 9 correctly (assuming the events portrayed in those verses occur chronologically), satan is not hurled down to earth until AFTER Christ is taken to heaven.  This is just my opinion after many years of Bible study, but I would venture that Rev. 12:7 thru the end of the Chapter are prophetic verses about events that have not yet occurred.  As you have probably guessed, I don't cotton to the historic SDA/EGW interpretation of eschatology.

Verse 6 is transitional.  The "woman" in verses 1 - 5 represents literal Israel. (Jesus was Jewish; as was the religion and the woman who birthed Him).  The "woman in verse 6 onward represents spiritual Israel, which includes Messianic Jews and Gentile believers (in other words, the "church).  The 1,260 days mentioned in verse 5 is the same as the "time, times and half a time mentioned in verse 14.

All that I post here is simply my opinion; not dogma.  My opinion is subject to change as I study more and read the  current "signs of the times".  I don't think any of us can speak with certainty about the details of future prophetic events until they happen.  Until the occurrence of such events, any speculation on the details (especially my own speculation) is just that - speculation (= guessing).

[JoeMo]

4 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Here Mathew is referring to Daniel 9's 70 weeks. Knowing there is no gap between the 69 and 70th weeks puts "the abomination of desolation" at or very near the end of the 70th week does it not?

The way I read Daniel 9:24-27, there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week.  the "anointed one" spoken of in these verses is NOT Jesus (capitalization is not in original language; it was added by translators).  Does it seem consistent to you that the "Anointed One" ("put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. No - the "anointed one" spoken of here is the antichrist.

[JoeMo]

3 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Satan had to of been cast out prior to Christ's birth in order to persecute the woman who was to give birth the the male child. Satan had to of been cast down already in order to persecute the church into hiding for the 1260 days/years as you rightly pointed out.

You are putting your own interpretation on things; just like you say we are when we say that satan will impersonate Christ.  In my world, when satan is thrown down, he is persecuting the church - not Jews; and the end-time world-wide persecution (led by satan) has not yet begun.  Just my opinion - not dogma.  You are free to hold your own opinion.  Only time will show the truth.

[JoeMo]

2 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Did Christ put an end to sacrifice and offering after the 69th week?

Did this same "christ" set up the abomination that causes desolation?

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Kdogae86 said:

13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the [g]presence of the serpent.

Satan had to of been cast out prior to Christ's birth in order to persecute the woman who was to give birth the the male child. Satan had to of been cast down already in order to persecute the church into hiding for the 1260 days/years as you rightly pointed out.

You misinterpret the scripture.  The dragon will be persecuting "the woman who gave birth (past tense) to the male child"; not "the woman who was to give birth to the male child".

Also, the time and times and half a time to which you refer have not yet occurred.  They are in the future.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Kdogae86 said:

The evidence for an impersonation is getting thinner. I'm not saying it won't happen but just haven't seen the scripture for it yet. I know EGW has mentioned an impersonation but if we are to believe in sola scriptura then we should be able to see the impersonation in scripture too.

The evidence given so far is from dispensational, non historicist understandings.

I am not neither a dispensationalist nor a historicist, nor a hard-core EGW fan.  I am in the futurist camp; and firmly believe that the 70th week, 1260 days, and 2,300 evening-mornings will all take place during the building and use of a 3rd Temple to be built in the not-too-distant future.

As an historicist, what do you think the 1,290 days and 1,335 days of Daniel 12 refer to?

[8thdaypriest]

4 hours ago, Kdogae86 said:

What is the origination of this fire? It is a beast power correct? The beast quoted from Revelation 13 is not the anti-christ. This creates some issues with your understanding does it not?

Who EMPOWERS the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Little Horn?  Satan.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Kdogae86 said:

Yes you are correct. I did misquote and thank you for pointing that out but the point to be made did not change.

We know 1290 days is probably a long period of time and for the sake of hermeneutics if 70 weeks is do be broken down into days and then to years then we can be consistent in interpreting 1290 days as years. The reason to think it is a long period of time is it is concurrent with the Roman beast power of Daniel 7:25/Revelation 12:14. At this time the true church went into hiding between 538 AD to 1798 AD("fly into the wilderness). Conveniently if we overlay 1335 as years from the same start date of 538 AD it leads us to 1844 AD. 

70 weeks and 2300 days have the same start date of 457 BC leading 2300 years to...1844. The end of the 70 weeks ended at the stoning of Steven which marked the end of the Jewish probation. 3.5 years before the stoning is Christ's death and resurrection and 3.5 years before that was the beginning of Christ's ministry.

Yes I left major details out for the sake of time.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. (Rev 13:3 NKJ)

The Beast with its little horn, persecutes the saints AFTER its deadly wound is healed.  NOT BEFORE. 

Has the deadly wound been healed? Yet?  If so - when? 

[8thdaypriest]

Just now, Kdogae86 said:

Never denied that. True that is an impersonation but don't believe is even nearly the same as Satan inhabiting the earthly 3rd temple.

In the story of Belshazzar's Feast, the King used consecrated vessels to serve wine to his guests, thus making the point of Yahweh's powerlessness.  AT THAT POINT the King was "weighed in the balances".  

I believe it will be the same for Satan's use of consecrated ground - to show that the whole world worships him.  At that TIME - Satan will be weighed in the balances of Heaven. 

[8thdaypriest]

4 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

In the story of Belshazzar's Feast, the King used consecrated vessels to serve wine to his guests, thus making the point of Yahweh's powerlessness.  AT THAT POINT the King was "weighed in the balances".  

I believe it will be the same for Satan's use of consecrated ground - to show that the whole world worships him.  At that TIME - Satan will be weighed in the balances of Heaven. 

What happened WHEN the Philistines placed the Ark of the Covenant in front of their god?  It fell over.

I believe the Ark of the Covenant will be found.  What if Satan (as Christ) placed his hand on that Ark, and as not immediately slain?  It would be a very convincing deception. 

[JoeMo]

15 hours ago, Kdogae86 said:

It would be true to say the temple is each and every person and Satan has already entered much of the whole world already.

Probation will close and many will still be waiting for the Antichrist to enter a 3rd temple but it was already too late

The whole idea of probation closing before the second coming is an SDA construct.  Nothing in scripture explicitly states that probation will close prior to the SC.  Probation closes when the righteous dead are resurrected and the living saints are taken to meet with the Lord in the air; leaving only the unrepentant wicked on the planet.  Probation will indeed close when that happens, cuz the 7 bowls of God's wrath then falls and pretty much destroys the entire planet.

Are you implying that WE are the temple in which the daily  sacrifices are to cease and the abomination of desolation is set up in?  That's a stretch for me.

We (including you) who are watchers are to keep our eyes open; and not focus on a given end-time scenario to the exclusion of others.  Like I said before - we don't really know how a prophecy is going to unfold until it unfolds.  For me, if the papacy tries to set up a worldwide political-religious system that starts persecuting the Lord's chosen and imposing its doctrines on the world under pain of death, I will see that and likely lean towards the papacy being the beast power.  If Islam tries to do the same, I will likely lean towards Islam being the beast power.  By looking at the current "signs of the times", can you guess which way I'm leaning now?

[8thdaypriest]

Hitler rose to power in Germany, because the people were in dire straights, and were looking for a strong leader to "save" them. 

The Antichrist will come to power in the same way, because of the same economic and war torn conditions - world wide. 

In Egypt, Pharoah came to power as the people gradually sold all they had, and finally themselves - to buy food (security).  Whoever holds your DEBT - holds you. 

Revelation specifically says the Beast power will forbid men to "buy or sell" unless they have "the mark" - a sign of submission to the Beast.  This is economic control.  When you buy something on line or sign up for a service on line, you most often have to check the box "I accept" - meaning I accept your conditions of sale. 

We all know that an implantable chip is a very real possibility, and a cashless society with electronic "money". 

[JoeMo]

22 minutes ago, Kdogae86 said:

Before we establish the meaning of temple in eschetology I thing the gap between the 69th and 70th week has to be proven otherwise if there is no gap then there is no pretrib rapture and no inhabiting of the 3rd temple by an Antichrist. 

Prove the gap then we can establish which temple.

We can "prove" nothing.  It's all a matter of faith and discernment.  I'll say it again - none of us truly know how prophecy will unfold until it unfolds. If your revelation is different than mine, I can prove nothing to you.  We can simply agree to disagree.  We come from two different viewpoints.  I am a committed futurist when it comes to prophecy.  This discussion is going nowhere.  Until we agree on a world view, neither of us will convince the other of anything.   Titus 3:9-10 advises us: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. ¹⁰ Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. ¹¹ You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned."  I don't want to be one of those guys making arguments that can't be won.  I'd rather win the war than a battle.

[JoeMo]

Any rapture you talk about is premillennial.  Even staunch SDA's believe that the saved from all ages are caught up prior to or simultaneously with the SC.  It's the pre tribulation "secret" rapture that makes no sense.

1 hour ago, Kdogae86 said:

 The 70 weeks are given as a probation for the Jewish people. It makes no sense to move the last week all the way to the end of time. It wouldn't be a 70 week probation anymore would it?

Fair point to bring up.  I'll think about that. 

[LifeHiscost]

3 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Hitler rose to power in Germany, because the people were in dire straights, and were looking for a strong leader to "save" them. 

The Antichrist will come to power in the same way, because of the same economic and war torn conditions - world wide. 

In Egypt, Pharoah came to power as the people gradually sold all they had, and finally themselves - to buy food (security).  Whoever holds your DEBT - holds you. 

Revelation specifically says the Beast power will forbid men to "buy or sell" unless they have "the mark" - a sign of submission to the Beast.  This is economic control.  When you buy something on line or sign up for a service on line, you most often have to check the box "I accept" - meaning I accept your conditions of sale. 

We all know that an implantable chip is a very real possibility, and a cashless society with electronic "money". 

   In the last great conflict of the controversy with Satan those who are loyal to God

will

see

every earthly support

cut off. Because they refuse to break His law in obedience to

earthly

powers, they

will be

forbidden to buy or sell. It

will

finally

be

decreed that they shall

be

put to death. See

Revelation 13:11-17

. But to the obedient is given the promise, “He shall dwell on high: his place of defense shall

be

the munitions of rocks: bread shall

be

given him; his waters shall

be

sure.”

Isaiah 33:16

. By this promise the children of God

will

live. When the earth shall

be

wasted with famine, they shall

be

fed. “They shall not

be

ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall

be

satisfied.”

Psalm 37:19

. To that time of distress the prophet Habakkuk looked forward, and his words express the faith of the church: “Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit

be

in the vines; the labor of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall

be

cut off from the fold, and there shall

be

no herd in the stalls: yet I

will

rejoice in the Lord, I

will

joy in the God of my salvation.”

Habakkuk 3:17, 18

.

{DA 121.3}

[/quote] 

Some individuals are even now being prepared by God through circumstances to steel their mind,  to yield only to the leading of the Holy Spirit in the temptation of possible compromise.

Prepare to meet your God, O Israel." 13For behold, He who forms mountains and creates the wind And declares to man what are His thoughts, He who makes dawn into darkness And treads on the high places of the earth, The LORD God of hosts is His name.....Amos 4

15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.…John 14

God is Love!~Jesus saves!