Romans 7:1

[Ron Amnsn]

On 2/21/2016 at 7:48 PM, bluejx said:

My question is, what does the verse mean and what under what conditions is a man not under the law's jurisdiction.

Romans chapter 6 Paul tells us that because of Messiah's death, we have died to sin and are freed from it because it no longer has any claim over us.  Messiah now has claim over us because we are joined to him.

In verses 2 and 3 of Romans 7, Paul uses the laws of marriage to illustrate in legal terms how we are released from the jurisdiction of sin, as stated in verse 1.  When the woman's husband dies, she is no longer under the jurisdiction of the law concerning her husband, so she is free to remarry without being adulterous. She is not freed from God's law at all, except that without a living husband the laws of being married have no jurisdiction over her.  Notice that the woman does not become free to be promiscuous or free to become a harlot, nor would she be free from guilt if she had murdered the husband who passed away.  She is still under the jurisdiction of God's Law.  Later, when she marries a new husband, she comes under the jurisdiction of the same law concerning her new husband as she was released from when her former husband died. 

The illustration in verses 2 and 3 is not perfect.  In Romans 6, it is the person who dies to sin (spiritually) who is released from sin's jurisdiction and becomes joined to Messiah.  But in Paul's illustration it is the husband that dies, while the woman is released to become joined to a new husband.  The dead husband is released as well, but it's a bit difficult to show how the physical death of the husband would benefit him in the same way that dying to sin benefits us.

Verse 1 tells us that Paul was speaking to those who knew the Law of God.  In that context, there was no danger that Paul's illustration would be used to suggest that a person joined to Messiah is released from the jurisdiction of God's Law.  If that had been Paul's intent, those who knew God's Law would have easily condemned Paul's teaching using the existing Scriptures of that day.

[Ron Amnsn]

On 2/22/2016 at 6:03 PM, Robert said:

We are not under the law as Christians because the law requires 3 things for eternal life:

1] Perfect obedience in word, deed and thought

2] Perfect sinlessness of nature

3] The 2nd death for failure of 1 & 2

This is Robert's "straw man" argument. 

The Law of God in the Old Testament did not "require" these three things.  The Law of God in the Old Testament does not even speak of "eternal life" or the "second death".  The Law of God in the Old Testament had effective provisions to take care of non-rebelious sins.  If a person followed the instructions pertaining to people who had sinned, they were still following God's Law as it was actually given. The Law of God was never given as a means to earn eternal salvation.

The New Testament tells us that John the Immerser's parents "were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord." (Luke 1:6)  So "perfect sinlessness" was obviously not a requirement.

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, bluejx said:

But would you agree that there is more that grace does in the life of a believer than only get him to heaven?

Yes; I agree with you that all God's commands are enablements; and that enablement is available through grace.  I also propose that no one has ever followed it perfectly (except Christ).  Sometimes we think that we are doing God's will; when in hindsight, we probably hindered it.

People misunderstand that living under grace rather than the law gives people the illusion that they can do whatever they want because they are covered by grace.  That is a misunderstanding.  Living under grace simply means understanding that any victory over sin and unrighteousness comes from God and God alone - we have nothing to add except cooperation.  When I fall short, I know that if I confess my sin, He is faithful to forgive it and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.  I also know that if I say I have no sin, I am liar.

As I have contemplated Romans 7, I think it portrays the experience of all believers.  They have grown to hate certain sins that they once lived for.  Yet, because of history, habit, and personal preferences, they occasionally (maybe not so occasionally) fall into that sin again.  Ask anyone who has been gay or lesbian or heterosexually promiscuous since early life, or a long-term alcoholic or drug addict.

I also believe God forgives us as we forgive others.  If we forgive much, we will be forgiven much.  If we judge harshly and condemn, we may well be judged harshly and condemned.

[bluejx]

23 hours ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Romans chapter 6 Paul tells us that because of Messiah's death, we have died to sin and are freed from it because it no longer has any claim over us.  Messiah now has claim over us because we are joined to him.

In verses 2 and 3 of Romans 7, Paul uses the laws of marriage to illustrate in legal terms how we are released from the jurisdiction of sin, as stated in verse 1.  When the woman's husband dies, she is no longer under the jurisdiction of the law concerning her husband, so she is free to remarry without being adulterous. She is not freed from God's law at all, except that without a living husband the laws of being married have no jurisdiction over her.  Notice that the woman does not become free to be promiscuous or free to become a harlot, nor would she be free from guilt if she had murdered the husband who passed away.  She is still under the jurisdiction of God's Law.  Later, when she marries a new husband, she comes under the jurisdiction of the same law concerning her new husband as she was released from when her former husband died. 

The illustration in verses 2 and 3 is not perfect.  In Romans 6, it is the person who dies to sin (spiritually) who is released from sin's jurisdiction and becomes joined to Messiah.  But in Paul's illustration it is the husband that dies, while the woman is released to become joined to a new husband.  The dead husband is released as well, but it's a bit difficult to show how the physical death of the husband would benefit him in the same way that dying to sin benefits us.

Verse 1 tells us that Paul was speaking to those who knew the Law of God.  In that context, there was no danger that Paul's illustration would be used to suggest that a person joined to Messiah is released from the jurisdiction of God's Law.  If that had been Paul's intent, those who knew God's Law would have easily condemned Paul's teaching using the existing Scriptures of that day.

Hi Ron.

Thanks for your input.

One thing though; I'm not sure I would summarize Romans 6 as succinctly as you have.  What I read is Paul's call to holiness as the logical response in the context of our entering into relationship with Christ through baptism which is symbolic of sharing in His death.  He's actually admonishing those who have been baptized to live righteously and holy and adds this statement:

Ro 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his
servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of
obedience unto righteousness?

It's obvious, at least to me, that there remains a possibility for his reader to chose otherwise and so he informs them of the consequences of such a choice.

Your assessment of Romans 7 is spot on.  Thank you for very much.

[bluejx]

LOL.  "John the Immerser"

I like that.  Clearly he was not a Baptist nor an Episcopalian.

[bluejx]

JoeMo,

I do plan to comment on your post but the hours escaped me and will have to try again tomorrow.

Blessing.

[Robert]

On 2/22/2016 at 4:51 PM, Robert said:

I'll get back with you...

Quote

I don't know that "perfect obedience" is possible.  However Paul did pose this question twice is his epistle to the Romans, "What then, shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?" and previously in the same chapter, "What then shall we sin that grace may abound?"  Obviously we have to consider what Paul and More emphatically define sin to be, the transgression of the law.

Paul is not going to contradict himself.  Paul clearly states:

"There is none righteous, no, not one" and  "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Rom 3:10,23

Conclusion:  We have a history of sinning and we are present tense failing to live a life of agape only.  Since God's law requires perfection (see Matt 5:48)  then we are all doomed under the jurisdiction of God's law.  Hence we had to be delivered from under law.

What Paul is addressing in Romans 6:15 is living a life of sin as a legitimate lifestyle.

A modern day example is the gay lifestyle.  A gay that has been converted cannot "practice" this sin without repentance.  Repentance is admitting to God that one has sinned.

 Living the gay lifestyle is refusing to repent because to practice this sin means that one has rejected what the Bible teaches on homosexuality. The gay who practices this sin rejects his need of Christ's righteousness.

To reject Christ's imputed righteousness is to stand before the law without an intercessor. 

 

[Robert]

Quote

I don't think the issue is about perfection or even about having a sinless nature in the flesh.  

As far as the law is concerned it is about perfection.  God's law is "just" in requiring perfection because to take sin to heaven, in any form, means the demise of paradise. 

 

[Robert]

On 2/24/2016 at 6:34 AM, bluejx said:

 Do you think that Paul's statement about being sold under sin could be a clue to whether or not the bulk of Romans 7 is describing a pre-salvation experience?

Paul is writing about the both his and the believers post-salvation experience.  

Remember as a Pharisee he viewed himself as "blameless" before the law (see Phil 3:6), but when Paul understood that the law required his thoughts and motives to be perfect (see Romans 7:7) he realized that "the commandment, which was to bring life" actually brought death (see Rom 7:10). 

[Robert]

On 2/23/2016 at 0:35 AM, LifeHiscost said:

Then I confess my sin...

Yes, and confession proves what?  

Answer: That you are a sinner!

Now, I'm not downplaying confession because in order to receive Christ's righteousness you must admit that you are a sinner.  That's why Christ stated, "I did not come to call the righteous (i.e., the self-righteous) ,but sinners, to repentance.”

 

 

[Robert]

On 2/25/2016 at 0:28 AM, Ron Amnsn said:

The Law of God was never given as a means to earn eternal salvation

Matt 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me (i.e., a "good teacher") good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

 

[Robert]

On 2/25/2016 at 0:05 AM, Ron Amnsn said:

Verse 1 tells us that Paul was speaking to those who knew the Law of God.  In that context, there was no danger that Paul's illustration would be used to suggest that a person joined to Messiah is released from the jurisdiction of God's Law.  If that had been Paul's intent, those who knew God's Law would have easily condemned Paul's teaching using the existing Scriptures of that day.

The Jews are the ones who "knew the law".

What was their response to Paul's teaching that "we have been delivered from the law" (Rom 7:6)?

Acts 21:27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him (Paul) in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against our people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Gentiles into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”

[bluejx]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

Paul is writing about the both his and the believers post-salvation experience.  

Remember as a Pharisee he viewed himself as "blameless" before the law (see Phil 3:6), but when Paul understood that the law required his thoughts and motives to be perfect (see Romans 7:7) he realized that "the commandment, which was to bring life" actually brought death (see Rom 7:10). 

He also describes his condition as wretched and being in a body of this death.  If this is a post salvation experience why would he need to be delivered from it?

Sticking with Romans 7, wouldn't it make sense that the realization that he was guilty of covetousness by coming to know the commandment made him realize he was worthy of death?

When talking about the Romans 7 condition I'm not considering verses 1-6 they are an explanation of how the law no longer binds us to deceased mates.  We are only considering verses 7 through 24.  Of course I do realize that many folks who see their own experience described in these verses do consider themselves saved.

 

[LifeHiscost]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

Yes, and confession proves what?  

Answer: That you are a sinner!

Now, I'm not downplaying confession because in order to receive Christ's righteousness you must admit that you are a sinner.  That's why Christ stated, "I did not come to call the righteous (i.e., the self-righteous) ,but sinners, to repentance.”

 

 

⁴ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law....1John 3

Since sin is the transgression of law, there would have to be law in effect in order to make anyone a sinner.  And what law would that be? And since this counsel of the Word was given some lengthy time after Jesus said "It is finished!",   it would have to be the penalty Jesus bore for the sins of those who repented, not the Law, to which He referred. 

 

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.....Revelation 14

 

Until Jesus returns and the believer receives his change, that faithfulness carried out is a result of the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ.

 

19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner....John 5

 

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.....John 15

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

Oooops!

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Robert]

3 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

Since sin is the transgression of law, there would have to be law in effect in order to make anyone a sinner. 

We were already sinners before the law.  The law took sin and made it transgression.  The law, therefore, made matters worse.

Quote

....Jesus bore for the sins of those who repented, not the Law, to which He referred. 

No, Jesus bore the sins of the whole human race, not just those who repent.  You seriously need to read your Bible laying aside your predisposition to Arminianism.  Jesus has justified the fallen human race in Himself.  

[Robert]

4 hours ago, bluejx said:

He also describes his condition as wretched and being in a body of this death.  If this is a post salvation experience why would he need to be delivered from it?

Let's look at the context:  Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 

Q1:  Does the carnal man, the uncoverted man, delight in God's law?

A1: Eph 2: 3 Among them (the unconverted) we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind...Notice that in the uncoverted the flesh (human nature) and the mind are in harmony. Hence the carnal mind hates God's law.  The uncoverted do not delight in God's law according to the inward man.

"The inward man" always refers to the converted mind:  Eph 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inward man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love...."

Quote

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! 

If you were set free from the body of death then you would be immortal and sinless

Here  Paul is looking forward to being released from his fallen humanity with its bent towards self (sin) and receiving his new, immortal, glorified life in Christ Jesus.

[LifeHiscost]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

We were already sinners before the law.  The law took sin and made it transgression.  The law, therefore, made matters worse.

No, Jesus bore the sins of the whole human race, not just those who repent.  You seriously need to read your Bible laying aside your predisposition to Arminianism.  Jesus has justified the fallen human race in Himself.  

Perhaps the thought is the Word doesn't mean what it says or the revelation of what man will be pursuing in the Kingdom to come isn't clear.

4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.…1 John 3

…2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.…1 John 5

…11"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."....Revelation 14

God is Love!~Jesus saves!       

 

[bluejx]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

Let's look at the context:  Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 

Q1:  Does the carnal man, the uncoverted man, delight in God's law?

A1: Eph 2: 3 Among them (the unconverted) we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind...Notice that in the uncoverted the flesh (human nature) and the mind are in harmony. Hence the carnal mind hates God's law.  The uncoverted do not delight in God's law according to the inward man.

"The inward man" always refers to the converted mind:  Eph 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inward man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love...."

If you were set free from the body of death then you would be immortal and sinless

Here  Paul is looking forward to being released from his fallen humanity with its bent towards self (sin) and receiving his new, immortal, glorified life in Christ Jesus.

Q1:  A1:  Yes I suppose an unconverted man can delight in the law of God but without the ability to truly be subject to it.  Every unconverted Pharisee delighted in the law of God.

The verse you allude to, Rom 8:7, does not say they hate the law but that they cannot be subject to it.  Again, if you accept that Pharisees delighted in God's law you'd have to admit that they were converted and so saved.  Are you ready to say that?

I don't know that Eph 3:16 supports your statement that the inward man "always" refers to the converted mind.  I read the verse as a prayer of Paul's requesting strength with might through the Spirit be granted in the inner man of his readers.  Obviously if it is a prayer then at some point they were not yet being strengthened.  Why ask for something they already had?  And if their inner man was not yet strengthened at some point was there inner man converted at some point unconverted?  I think even unconverted men have an inner man.

I don't know how you arrived at deliverance from the body of this death means immortality and sinlessness.  Sinlessness is the ideal, I'm sure, but i suspect the deliverance had to do with what Paul describes in some of the verses in Chapter 8.  Whereas the carnal man is at enmity against God and incapable to be subject to His law, when He receives the Holy Spirit that limitation is eliminated.  Paul says that such a man is not in the flesh but in the Spirit.  Once delivered Paul found himself no longer incapable. 

[bluejx]

11 hours ago, Robert said:

Paul is not going to contradict himself.  Paul clearly states:

"There is none righteous, no, not one" and  "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Rom 3:10,23

Conclusion:  We have a history of sinning and we are present tense failing to live a life of agape only.  Since God's law requires perfection (see Matt 5:48)  then we are all doomed under the jurisdiction of God's law.  Hence we had to be delivered from under law.

What Paul is addressing in Romans 6:15 is living a life of sin as a legitimate lifestyle.

A modern day example is the gay lifestyle.  A gay that has been converted cannot "practice" this sin without repentance.  Repentance is admitting to God that one has sinned.

 Living the gay lifestyle is refusing to repent because to practice this sin means that one has rejected what the Bible teaches on homosexuality. The gay who practices this sin rejects his need of Christ's righteousness.

To reject Christ's imputed righteousness is to stand before the law without an intercessor. 

 

You do realize that Paul was quoting Psalm 14:1-3 which starts with the fool who says in his heart there is no God don't you?  Yes he does make the point point that no one is righteous on their own without God but I think we need to consider that there were and still can be some folks that were righteous but not without God.  Scripture says Job was perfect and upright.  It also says John B's parents were righteous before God blamelessly walking in God's commandments and ordinances.  Others are mentioned besides.  I think Paul's statement has must have some context that recognizes the existence of these good folks, some had the Holy Spirit upon them.

I'm puzzled by your statement about what Paul was delivered from.  First I'd like to ask is, when you says jurisdiction of the law do you mean delivered from being judged by the law without being delivered from sin?  And if this is so, would that by definition be license to sin?

Your gay example is also puzzling.  If a gay once he has been converted cannot practice this sin without repentance does that mean he can with repentance?  And is repentance only an admission of sin?  I thought that was confession.

Oh never mind.  I just read you next paragraph and you kinda cleared that up.  Sorry.

So let me see if I understand what you really said.  Generalizing:  You're saying that if a person continues sinning he is refusing to repent.  Is that correct?

 

[bluejx]

On 2/25/2016 at 7:27 AM, JoeMo said:

Yes; I agree with you that all God's commands are enablements; and that enablement is available through grace.  I also propose that no one has ever followed it perfectly (except Christ).  Sometimes we think that we are doing God's will; when in hindsight, we probably hindered it.

People misunderstand that living under grace rather than the law gives people the illusion that they can do whatever they want because they are covered by grace.  That is a misunderstanding.  Living under grace simply means understanding that any victory over sin and unrighteousness comes from God and God alone - we have nothing to add except cooperation.  When I fall short, I know that if I confess my sin, He is faithful to forgive it and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.  I also know that if I say I have no sin, I am liar.

As I have contemplated Romans 7, I think it portrays the experience of all believers.  They have grown to hate certain sins that they once lived for.  Yet, because of history, habit, and personal preferences, they occasionally (maybe not so occasionally) fall into that sin again.  Ask anyone who has been gay or lesbian or heterosexually promiscuous since early life, or a long-term alcoholic or drug addict.

I also believe God forgives us as we forgive others.  If we forgive much, we will be forgiven much.  If we judge harshly and condemn, we may well be judged harshly and condemned.

Sorry I bypassed this in responding to Robert.

I won't argue against you statement that no one has ever followed God's commandments perfectly.  But as I shared with Robert, Scripture does mention exceptional individuals who did at least keep and walk in them for some portion of their lives.  Abraham, David, Zacharias and Elizabeth are mentioned.

I hear what you're saying about the misunderstanding about living under grace.  I'm probably guilty of it.  But my misunderstanding has been fed by those statements I shared from those who have articulated grace in those ways.  I would hope such statement were actually a poor attempt at articulating a better truth about grace.  But based on statistics of the imperceptible difference between the world and the Churches I think it might actually be an accurate articulation of their perception of grace.

I'm going to come back to this in another post.  There are other sentiments in your post that I think need addressing.

Until then, good night.

[bluejx]

On 2/25/2016 at 7:27 AM, JoeMo said:

On 2/25/2016 at 7:27 AM, JoeMo said:

Yes; I agree with you that all God's commands are enablements; and that enablement is available through grace.  I also propose that no one has ever followed it perfectly (except Christ).  Sometimes we think that we are doing God's will; when in hindsight, we probably hindered it.

People misunderstand that living under grace rather than the law gives people the illusion that they can do whatever they want because they are covered by grace.  That is a misunderstanding.  Living under grace simply means understanding that any victory over sin and unrighteousness comes from God and God alone - we have nothing to add except cooperation.  When I fall short, I know that if I confess my sin, He is faithful to forgive it and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.  I also know that if I say I have no sin, I am liar.

As I have contemplated Romans 7, I think it portrays the experience of all believers.  They have grown to hate certain sins that they once lived for.  Yet, because of history, habit, and personal preferences, they occasionally (maybe not so occasionally) fall into that sin again.  Ask anyone who has been gay or lesbian or heterosexually promiscuous since early life, or a long-term alcoholic or drug addict.

I also believe God forgives us as we forgive others.  If we forgive much, we will be forgiven much.  If we judge harshly and condemn, we may well be judged harshly and condemned.

 

In continuation:

I agree that through God and His grace victory over sin and over unrighteousness is possible.  And I too believe as you do that all we add is our cooperation which I believe God works in us both to will and do.  I wonder though if your application of 1John 1:9 is what was intended.  I don't believe and living breathing human being is without sin, but the way I see it that doesn't mean that a converted man must necessarily fall short.  After all God through grace has made it possible that he not, with every temptation.  The fact that he remains in this mortal body which is naturally drawn to sin means he is not without sin.

In a conversation with one of the authors of those quotes in post 6 of this topic we discussed what he thought "IF" meant in 1John 1:9.  His answer was "IF" meant "WHEN".  I suppose that if John meant "WHEN" he would have, under the inspiration of the Spirit, would have written it that way.  The question is why did he write "IF"?  In my opinion "IF" denotes uncertainty rather than certainty.  To me the verse sees the possibility of a converted man sinning but does not guarantee it.  And I think one must read the verse completely to get John's intent, "that ye sin not".  Certainly the verse is not simply guaranteeing a provision for continued sinful behavior.

Another thing that came to mind while reading your post was the effect of self speech.  For an illustration let consider a man such as you mention who has a history of habitual sin.  Let's say for this illustration that his habitual sin is drinking.  He comes to hear the gospel and is convicted that he must change and that God will help him, through grace,  by that strength with might in the inner man that Robert brought up.  But because his temptation is internal and he is drawn to his habitual sin, tempted.  If in he, in his self speech, continually tells himself that he will never be able to break free from his addiction, that God can't help him, how successful should we suppose his deliverance will be?

Let me share a little bit of my testimony.  From the age of 13 I began experimenting with drugs and became a functional addict and a heavy drinker.  It wasn't until after I read the scripture through at about 22 years of age that I started to feel a desire to seek God and submit to His leading in my life.  But I didn't submit until I was almost 30.  I did not want my addictions to hold me back from God but the day before my baptism I got high again.  In the water I talked with God telling Him I knew that my addictions were not compatible with this relationship I wanted with Him and confessed I was powerless to change and that He would have to take it away.  At that moment I felt a great burden lifted from me and a great sense of peace.  I was certain that God heard my sincere prayer and was assured of His help.  Praise God He took all that from me.  I've been serving the lord since 1980 and have never reverted back even once.  Not in my own strength or power of will, but simply in trusting Him.  He is faithful.

I'm not claiming perfection, but in that area of my life I witness God's power which I believe is available to every child of God to overcome every tendency to sin.  So I think like Paul I can say, "the life which I now live in the
flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."  And again, like Paul, "I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

With those words Paul then advised:

Php 3:15
¶ Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if
in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this
unto you.
Php 3:16
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by
the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

Beautiful Testimony, blue!

[bluejx]

Thank you JoeMo.  But mine is not all that miraculous.  I've known folks who were delivered from $1000 a days heroin habits without withdrawals.  God's power is limitless.  If He can give sight to the blind restore withered limbs and raise the dead He can surely give a us new heart and give His spirit to those who ask.

[JoeMo]

blue,

Do not underestimate the miracle of the gifts of repentance and of eternal life.  These are the greatest miracles of all.  That we - broken and flawed human beings - have been freed from the bondage and wages of sin through the love and sacrifice of the Lord Jesus.  The fact that we are a new creation with renewed minds is an incredible miracle.  Effortless deliverance from addictions and character flaws are also miracles; but they pale in comparison to the incredible miracle of reconciliation with God and life everlasting in the Kingdom  in exchange for nothing but faith and cooperation with His Spirit.