Unconditional Grace - truth or heresy?

[Ron Amnsn]

9 hours ago, Robert said:

Yes, to enter the door requires that you bring nothing.  Your own self-righteousness must be left outside the door because there's only room for you, the sinner..... 

Right. Self-righteousness stays outside the door.  But it sounds like you are also wanting to keep out Christ's righteousness, with which he clothes us, and which shapes our lives.

[Robert]

I asked: "Do you think that for 1ms you can add to Christ's finished work?"

Your response was "yes and no".

I submit to you that's the wrong answer no matter how you twist it.  God's work of redemption "in Christ Jesus" is a finished work.  We are complete in Him (see Col 2:10)

 

[Robert]

5 minutes ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Right. Self-righteousness stays outside the door.  But it sounds like you are also wanting to keep out Christ's righteousness, with which he clothes us, and which shapes our lives.

What Christ does in us, some thirty-fold, some sixty-fold and some one hundred-fold, does not add to what He did 2000 years ago.  These fruits have no merit, but instead witness to the fact that we are resting in Christ's finished work.  In the judgment God uses these fruits, not in addition to what He did 2000 years ago, but to prove that our faith is in His finished work.  

Those who are not resting are then working, and "by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight".  Hence those who aren't resting have fruit too, but their fruit isn't genuine...it's self-righteous fruit.  This fruit proves that the one who claims Christ is not resting in His finished work.  

[Ron Amnsn]

12 minutes ago, Robert said:

I asked: "Do you think that for 1ms you can add to Christ's finished work?"

Your response was "yes and no".

I submit to you that's the wrong answer no matter how you twist it.  God's work of redemption "in Christ Jesus" is a finished work.  We are complete in Him (see Col 2:10)

Robert, since the "gospel" which you promote is different than the Gospel which Jesus taught and which Paul taught, I kind of expect that you will deem the answer I provided from Scripture to be "wrong". 

Colossians 2:10 says,
10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.  (NIV)
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; (NASB)
10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. (ESV)
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (KJV)

Depending on which translation you use, it says we are "filled", "complete", "given fullness", or "made complete" in Jesus.  Of course, that's absolutely true.  Jesus himself was and is "complete" as well, probably to a much greater extent than we are, yet Jesus still had (and has) a responsibility to do the work that God gave him.  Likewise, we too have a responsibility to do the things that God has given us to do.  That doesn't mean that we earn our own salvation by doing those things-- earning salvation isn't the work that God gave us to do.  That was Christ's work.  Instead God told us to follow his instructions that we find in Scripture, and the example of Jesus.  Jesus also told his followers to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.  Making disciples is quite different than telling people they are already complete in Christ so there's nothing for them to do.

Robert, you say God's work of redemption is a finished work.  It's true that parts of it are finished.  But you're apparently still living in a sinful earth with neighbors who don't know YHWH.  There's something wrong with that picture, if God's redemption is complete.  Jesus said regarding God's redemption, "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."  Is that part complete?

[Robert]

5 hours ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Robert, you say God's work of redemption is a finished work.  It's true that parts of it are finished.  But you're apparently still living in a sinful earth with neighbors who don't know YHWH.  

Col 3:3 "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory."

"For you died" - see Romans 6:6/7:4 & 2 Cor 5:14

"Your life is hidden with Christ in God" - Eph 2:6, 2 Cor 5:17

"When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory" 1 Cor 15:51

Paul is telling us that our old, corporate life has already died "in Christ" and hence God's law is satisfied. At the resurrection our glorified life was raised with Christ and taken to heaven.  There our Great High Priest presents our glorified humanity before God and His holy law complete in Himself. When He returns we are changed and given our "new creation" that is now hidden in Christ.

Now, from our point of view we have not yet received what is true of us "in Christ".  But "in Christ" we are nevertheless complete.

[Ron Amnsn]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

When He returns we are changed and given our "new creation" that is now hidden in Christ.

So you agree that our redemption is not yet complete.

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Ron Amnsn said:

So you agree that our redemption is not yet complete.

"In Christ" we are complete, that is, we collectively stand before the law "in Christ" without blemish.  This is righteousness by faith.  

At the 2nd coming we are actually made righteous, i.e., we are instantaneously recreated in God's image after His likeness.  

Then we receive what is already true of our "new creation" in Christ Jesus.

From God's point of view you are perfect "in Christ".  That work is done.

From your point of view you haven't received your glorified body.

What can I say?