Homosexual Adventist Pastor?

[Gregory Matthews]

Guest Nash:  I have brought your post back into view.  This should allow you to copy and past while you make the corrections.  Once you make the corrections I will then remove your previous post.

Thank you for your corrections as I do not believe that you intended to be inaccurate.

 

[debbym]

On 11/17/2016 at 6:40 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

I am posting on this subject, due to the fact that Terry Rice has gone public with this story of what is happening in his life and ministry.  See:

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2016/11/15/adventist-chaplain-terry-rice-waits-“indefinitely”-church-endorsement

In brief, Terry Rice tells us that he has been educated as an Adventists minister and is currently employed in hospice ministry.  He states that his is a homosexual (he uses the term gay) but he implies that he is celibate.

He then tells us that the SDA denomination refused to either ordain him or to endorse him for ministry as a chaplain.  He clear that he believes that this refusal is related to the fact that he is gay.

FACT:  In the U.S., Federal chaplains, such as I have been, are required by law (which is based upon the Constitution's 1st amendment) to be approved by a recognized denomination both to be employed by the Federal government and to maintain that employment.  IOW, I could never have been so employed absent SDA approval and the SDA denomination could have terminated my employment at any time.  If the denomination had done so, I would not have had any recourse outside of the denomination itself.

I believe that this aspect of required denominational approval is correct and I support it.

I am not aware of anything else in regard to what Terry  Rice has posted other than what he has said.  But, I fully support the idea that the SDA denomination  has the right to decide whether or not they will ordain and approve people for ministry. This is not a personal judgment of Mr. Rice, and I do not know all aspects of this.  But, I want to  be clear that I do support the right of the denomination to make such decisions.

 

 

Apparently Terry is not seeking ordination, but confirmation as an SDA clergy for the purpose of employment.

It seems to me he may be overt about his orientation because there are others in this struggle and he may well be attempting to make a change in how this situation is addressed, for those others who are struggling with this issue. Setting precedents can be very effective.

Being attracted is not committing adultery or fornication in your heart.  It is not sexual sin to have an alternative orientation.  People who have concerns about homosexuality take in steps the distinctions between orientation and  gender identity, and perhaps the issues of cross dressing, and latency.

Those who have fears and distrust and condemnation, and judgement of various degrees may find it very difficult to sort these issues out and see clear to a healthy conscientious position.

Tests of character in the area of sensuality are serious, and sin in every area is blinding to us and numbing.  We continually need the Holy Spirit to tune and re-tune us.  Just personal trauma or loss and strong emotions may leave us Spiritually vulnerable and impact our discernment. There isn't anyone who does not need to be careful.  No one is so above their their humanity that they can just live heedless and confident in themselves.  Paul said,  "i keep my body in subjection lest i myself be a castaway." And he was a Godly  spiritual powerhouse.

[Gregory Matthews]

Debbym said below:

One of the requirements for endorsement by ACM is that  males be ordained and  females be Commissioned.

NOTE:  As far as I know, ACM has never  had a request to endorse an ordained female.  I do know of a case where a female was working as a chaplain who had neither been Commissioned nor Ordained.  That situation was resolved when the Conference in the area where she worked Commissioned her. 

Apparently Terry is not seeking ordination, but confirmation as an SDA clergy for the purpose of employment.

[Gregory Matthews]

Debbym said, below:

I agree with what Debbym said.

I do not agree with the position that Guest Nash took, but my disagreement had nothing to do with why I hide the post.  Guest Nash wrote well, except for the fact that the post contained a formatting error that had the potential for people to misunderstand what the NAD and  I had posted.  I wanted GN to correct that error.

In general we do not  either hide or delete posts based upon whether or not we agree with them.  However, exceptions to this are made when people  come here and post porn, as one example and people do come here and do such.  I am not going to get into a discussion as to what constitutes porn.

The same can also be sid for people who come here and attempt to commit fraud, which has happened.

Quote

Being attracted is not committing adultery or fornication in your heart.  It is not sexual sin to have an alternative orientation.

[debbym]

42 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

 

One of the requirements for endorsement by ACM is that  males be ordained and  females be Commissioned.

NOTE:  As far as I know, ACM has never  had a request to endorse an ordained female.  I do know of a case where a female was working as a chaplain who had neither been Commissioned nor Ordained.  That situation was resolved when the Conference in the area where she worked Commissioned her. 

 

 

This is interesting.  At a recent church discussion with our conference president Hoover, it was noted that both males and females may be commissioned, and both males and females may be ordained.  

Thank-you for explaining that Terry Rice was seeking a required ordination.

[Gregory Matthews]

The issue with Terry is that Terry's request for endorsement has never been voted, one way or another.  So, it is a bit more involved than  just ordination.

However, ordination is also an issue.  That aspect is more complex.  It is further complicated due to the fact that he is not employed by a SDA organization.  However, I will point out that  the female I  mentioned who was employed prior to being Commissioned was not employed by a SDA organization.  So, a recent precedent has been set.

[I say recent because I have some reason to believe that it is not the first, but do not currently have all of the facts to be certain.]

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Debbym is correct.  Presently there are males who are commissioned, as well as females.

[Jeannieb43]

I have personal knowledge of an Adventist church who has an associate pastor who is homosexual.   He has been on the pastoral staff there for many years.

 

 

[whbae]

Leviticus 18:22  You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. There is another similar statement in Romans, I think.  

This statement tells you a lot!  Not just a physical action.

[Gregory Matthews]

The Biblical verse that you cited references a physical action.  It does not reference an attraction/orientation.

Let us be clear:  My sexual attraction, whether to females, or to males, has never been a choice of mine.  One may argue as to the etiology of my sexual attraction, but it has never been a voluntary choice that I made.  As such, God is not going to charge me with sin on something that was not my choice.

 

[whbae]

GM;

It is your understanding of jus being a physical behavior.  It takes more than physical action before the action is taken place.  As I mentioned this sentence tells a lot more than just simply physical action.  What is behind the physical action?  What propels it? and more. As usual, we have to read more than just simple sentence.

[GayatfootofCross]

I come from a family of secrets and hiding and denial etc.

Here is an example that reflects this so well..

33 years ago I fathered a Son and my parents acted supportive.

My family are not christians and it was not a moral issue.

 I told my grandparents  and they were so happy to think maybe I wasn't gay after all.

When my mom found out I told them she was livid.

 

I guess I was supposed to hide the baby

toddler

boy

teen

adult

for a forever?

Being in this family I knew I broke a rule that was never declared.

I was 20  and not living at home and so rebellious.

 

..

My point is when you come from a family of secrets (or a church/cult/club) it is incredulous to see others break those rules.

And to not understand at best or to  be livid at the other for sharing themselves,  of course, looks like sin or at least suspect.

 

To share

To really share yourself

To become vulnerable/transparent perhaps is the most christian thing to do in a real church family.

Others can follow suite that will grow the Family of GOD when they see they will not be shunned for this.

 

 

[whbae]

There are things one does not  or should not tell the world. Some of those are none of their business. If your mom wants to hide and not to tell the world that is her business.  Some times  this world goes around better with secretes kept hidden.

[GayatfootofCross]

my mom wanted to hide MY baby

lol

It isn't hers to hide.

well anyhoo

I decide what I want to share about myself.

 

You decide what to share about yourself.

 

Toooo many Christians think they a to lord over others.

Jesus disagrees.

 

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

19 minutes ago, whbae said:

There are things one does not  or should not tell the world. Some of those are none of their business. If your mom wants to hide and not to tell the world that is her business.  Some times  this world goes around better with secretes kept hidden.

.. BTW

Nice to see you whbae!

Is been ages!

 

When people confront what they do and what was done to them in community (them being honest on both fronts also) there is H E A L I N G!

yes

The purpose in a man’s heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 25:5
 

[GayatfootofCross]

There are so many rules that family and church and society make since the dawn of time that are so heavily ingrained in us we thinks its a sin break that Jesus didn't say was a sin.

53 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

S0, you are a rule breaker eh? I'll have to report you. lol Not too sure who to...maybe to the Lord, in prayer?

Always need prayer!

Thank you Yes The Wanderer.

 

BTW im a new Father in Law!

My Son got married over the holidays!

And that wasn't a secret also.

My dear Man bragged all over fb with tons of pictures!

So happy and proud of my Man.

[Gail]

Congratulations!  

[GayatfootofCross]

On 1/6/2017 at 10:24 PM, The Wanderer said:

It is awesome to see someone proclaiming their happiness on the forum!! I rejoice with you! GBU my friend.

 God is so good! My son felt like for many adult years .. that he will be alone for the rest of his life.

As a Father it has been hard to watch  all these years while his friends were hooking up shacking up marrying and divorcing .

Now already talk of having one child. She wants a girl.

I say have three! One of each !