Will doing BAD things ensure that you miss heaven?

[Planey]

We have been discussing whether doing "good" things will guarantee you a place in heaven. The opinion seems to be overwhelmingly that it will not do so.

Conversely though, will doing "bad" things (not necessarily those mentioned in the 10C) ensure that you will miss out on heaven?

From where I stand it seems that if doing "good" things does not gain you entry, then doing "bad" things should not be an automatic denial of a place (but then when did "fair" have anything to do with religious things?)

Graeme

[cricket]

Will doing bad things ensure that one miss heaven?

Nope. The thief on the cross did bad things and yet, he was promised that he would be there with Jesus.

Must be something other than what a person does that allows him entry to heaven.

[lazarus]

David, Rahab, Moses, Abraham, Samson all did bad bad things!

[Gerr]

Quote:

---

Planey said:

We have been discussing whether doing "good" things will guarantee you a place in heaven. The opinion seems to be overwhelmingly that it will not do so.

Conversely though, will doing "bad" things (not necessarily those mentioned in the 10C) ensure that you will miss out on heaven?

From where I stand it seems that if doing "good" things does not gain you entry, then doing "bad" things should not be an automatic denial of a place (but then when did "fair" have anything to do with religious things?)

Graeme

---

[:"red"]For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. But you must CONTINUE to believe this truth and stand in it firmly. Don't drift away.... Col 1:19-23 NLT

And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord [by faith], you must continue to live in obedience to him [by faith]. Let your roots grow down into him and draw up nourishment from him, so you grow in faith; strong and vigorous in the truth you were taught. Let your lives overflow with thanksgiving for all he has done. Col 2:6,7 NLT, those in brackets mine.

So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires. Col 3:5 NLT

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21 NKJ [/]

Gerry

[Stan]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

lazarus said:

David, Rahab, Moses, Abraham, Samson all did bad bad things!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well that may be true, but rest assured, according to the promise of confessed sins, God does not remember them

[lazarus]

These are good texts but what are you trying to say by using them. I'm really interested to know.

[archierieus]

Quote:

---

Planey said:

From where I stand it seems that if doing "good" things does not gain you entry, then doing "bad" things should not be an automatic denial of a place (but then when did "fair" have anything to do with religious things?)

Graeme

---

Some create an artificial dichotomy in regard to this question. That is, separating what one 'does' from the personal experience of the gospel AND the judicial aspects of salvation. Various stripes of legalism, quite honestly. The gospel which I read about in the Bible, begins in the heart and radiates out through the entire being. This gospel has several aspects--what happens on the onside, the fruits of that happening, and the judicial consequences. BUT, they are ALL TIED TOGETHER, Graeme. They are inseparable. What is the focus of it all? The Lord Jesus Christ. Hence, the reminder to 'look unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.'

Dave

[Gerr]

Quote:

---

lazarus said:

These are good texts but what are you trying to say by using them. I'm really interested to know.

---

[:"blue"]That when a sinner repents & puts his faith in Christ, one is reckoned as sinless & faultless. That when Christ is in you, and you are in Christ, you will no longer continue to practice bad things. To willfully do bad things after coming to know Christ is to look forward to a judgment of condemnation. [/]

Gerry

[Planey]

Quote:

---

Gerry Cabalo said:

[:"blue"]To willfully do bad things after coming to know Christ is to look forward to a judgment of condemnation. [/]

Gerry

---

Thank you, Gerry.

A clear answer: Doing bad things WILL ensure that you miss heaven.

Graeme

[Nicodema]

If you are me, you don't even have to actually DO bad things. All you have to do is have bad things done TO you, and then have OTHERS accuse you of being the one doing bad things. Then they will shut you out of heaven and abandon you to Satan and laugh when he torments you and shrug when he takes you over like they expected it anyway and then shake their fingers in your face and say it's all YOUR fault.

Of course since THEY are all presumably going to be in Heaven, maybe I should be glad of missing it. It's what they all want anyway, who am I to deny WORTHY people what THEY want? SOMEBODY ought to get what they want out of the deal and it sure as seedtime and harvest ain't going to be me.... for everything they have a double bind and double standard. They want to preserve a God who smites all who oppose THEM but if you have that attitude they point it out as WRONG -- not because they comprehend at all but because it is coming from YOU and not THEM and everyone KNOWS THEY ARE THE SPECIAL UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE while YOU are just made for trampling in the DIRT (that is if you are ME, according to THEM.)

So yeah -- being accused of bad things and hated without a cause will keep you out of heaven because God favors those who conspire together to turn the beauty of Matthew 18:18-20 into a formula for evil, self-serving, selfish sorceries.

[Clio]

*safe gentle hugs* for Nico.

My friend, Abba doesn't favor those "who conspire together to turn the beauty of Matthew 18:18-20 into a formula for evil, self-serving, selfish sorceries.". Never. It's just... the Adversary doesn't need to work them over, because they are already deceived, and doing his work quite well without his active intervention.

It is only those who are striving to press in to Abba and True Jesus that the enemy continues to attack. Why waste his efforts on someone already securely in his realm?

As you know so well, my friend, just because they use the "right" words, sit in the "right pew" in the "right church" on the "right day" doesn't make them who they claim to be.

Do not lay the blame on these poor, lost, deceived ones. Even though they should know better. We are already in the early stages of the "strong delusion". It is not against flesh and blood and bone that we struggle.

*safe hugs Nico*

[Amelia]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Will doing BAD things ensure that you miss heaven?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Probably. Soooo guess where I wont be going?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

David, Rahab, Moses, Abraham, Samson all did bad bad things!

---

How did these play a role in their salvation?

[Nicodema]

Amelia, I agree before the Throne of God that you should go to Heaven. In fact, if I am given a place there, and you are not, I will offer mine to you personally.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi PLaney,

You said,

Quote:

---

Conversely though, will doing "bad" things (not necessarily those mentioned in the 10C)

---

The 10 Commandments cover all bad thoughts and acts, in other words there is nothing bad that one could do and say it's not in the Commandments. On the surface that may appear to be the case, but in fact all bad thought and acts do break the 10 Commandments of God. Otherwise the Commandments would not have the affect they have on our souls; mainly, revealing our sin and pointing us to God for help.

I have some questions: Can God lie? Scripture says it is impossible (Heb 6:18) Can God do good, obvisously yes. Can God do bad? No, His work may appear bad to to some at times, but the answer is no.

So if we are His Children being led by the Spirit we will not do bad, we will do good. is it impossible for us to do bad? No, but when we do we confess because we don't feel right about it. That is a governing principle in God's people. Proverbs 24:16 "For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief." There is a constant striving to do the good we know to do and the abiltiy to do so.

Can Satan lie? He's the father of such. Can Satan do good? Think on that one too. Can he do bad? yes.

If we are not God's children and are led by another spirit we will do bad. I have experienced this in my life as I'm sure you all have before coming to Christ. We will not be too eager to confess the bad and will, by and by be comfortable with it. There will be no constant striving to do good, it won't matter and neither will they care.

Mat 12:35 "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."

Will doing BAD things ensure that you miss heaven? If it is a reflection of the heart, yes. If it is a bad deed done and renounced, no.

"Doing" is revealing who has the heart, whether of good unto eternal life or bad unto eternal death. If God has the heart then good will reveal the eternal life with in. 1John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

I think of a relationship; if your spouse does bad, do you cut off your love? But if you're not in a relationship with a person and they do bad to you, you are more likely to cut off your love to them than you are to your spouse.

God is the same (I'm not saying He's selfish like us). Heb 6:10 "For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have showed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister." Joh 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

God has His children in high regard, 1Co 2:9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." It sounds like I'm saying God will let His children "off the hook" if they do bad. I am saying that because we have our hearts trained to long for and go to God's heart He will honor us. It's like baptism, He that believeth and is bapitzed will be saved, but he that believeth not... you can just for get it, nothing you do will help you. Even though I give my body to be burned and have not love, it profits me nothing.

In conclusion, if you do bad continually without seeking God for help heaven will not be in your future. If you do bad and realize you need help and go to God through Christ heaven is waiting for you, not because of what you have done but because of Christ work for and in you. The love that you have for God will be revealed by the good that you do and the bad that you avoid.

Norman

[Pockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Stan Jensen said:Well that may be true, but rest assured, according to the promise of confessed sins, God does not remember them

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Which is pretty mindblowing, considering He knows all things.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Planey said:

(but then when did "fair" have anything to do with religious things?)

Graeme

---

Interesting, Graeme, that you would add a footnote seeming to indicate that God's universal plan (religion) is unfair.

It would be interesting to know through whose eyes you believe unfairness is seen. Certainly we could include the prince of darkness in that group. Would you care to elaborate so it might be seen which group with whom you agree has control. Or perhaps you're thinking of that which man on his own has devised as reflecting "God's will".

[:"red"] "Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices." [/] Ecclesiastes 7:29 NASB

Keep the faith!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Planey said:

Doing bad things

WILL

ensure that you miss heaven.

Graeme

---

If you did not qualify that with other biblical counsel, why of course, there would be no one from earth that would enter the kingdom of God, except Jesus.

[:"red"] "Since all have sinned and are falling short..." [/] Romans 3:23 AMP

[LifeHiscost]

[:"red"] "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." [/]

Hebrews 10:35 KJV

[:"red"] "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." [/] Romans 2:29 KJV

Keep looking up!!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Shane said:

Quote:

---

David, Rahab, Moses, Abraham, Samson all did bad bad things!

---

How did these play a role in their salvation?

---

They each submitted to God.

[:"red"] "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [/] James 4:7

KJV

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Nicodema said:

In fact, if I am given a place there, and you are not, I will offer mine to you personally.

---

And that's the spirit of heaven as Jesus expressed it in His actions.

[:"red"] "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." [/] Romans 5:8 NASB

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Sid said:

Which is pretty mindblowing, considering He knows all things.

---

Which brings up a question. What do you think crosses His mind when He looks down at His hands and sees the scars that are there?

[:"red"] "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." [/] Zech 13:6 KJV

[Planey]

Quote:

---

LifeHiscost said:

to indicate that God's universal plan (religion) is unfair.

---

Do you think it is remotely fair for anyone to go to heaven?

If God was fair I don't believe any human would be there.

Graeme

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

LifeHiscost said:

Quote:

---

Shane said:

Quote:

---

David, Rahab, Moses, Abraham, Samson all did bad bad things!

---

How did these play a role in their salvation?

---

They each submitted to God.

[:"red"] "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [/] James 4:7

KJV

---

Did these bad things cause them to submit to God OR did the Holy Spirit? How did the bad things bring about their salvation?

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Sid said:

Quote:

---

Stan Jensen said:

Well that may be true, but rest assured, according to the promise of confessed sins, God does not remember them

---

Which is pretty mindblowing, considering He knows all things.

---

If only we had that capacity!