SDA Dropouts

[Gregory Matthews]

The following is the first of more articles that discusses the massive numbers of SDA members who drop out of the denomination.

http://www.adventistreview.org/church-dropouts-1

[JoeMo]

Not much in the article; but I'm interested in seeing more.  In my 45 years in the church, I have seen far more than 40% if new converts leaving - it's more like 75%.  The biggest reasons I have seen is that many (especially younger members) find the typical SDA service to be "boring"; and they seek a more "inspiring" or "exciting" church.  Many people over 30 leave because some of the "saints" rebuke their use of jewelry, how they dress, how they talk, how they keep the Sabbath, how they smell like cigarettes or beer, or because they were "busted eating meat (or worse - pork!!)  Another reason they leave is because they didn't have the "full story" when they were baptized; especially about EGW.

Most of the people I know who have left Adventism have not left Christianity; they have simply found churches (mostly non-denominational) that are more inclusive of people who are still facing issues that they can't address personally with SDA's for fear of continued rebuke.

[dgrimm60]

GREGORY and JOE MO

well  about 25  years ago  i and  my  at the  time was  studying  with  a  family----the  husband  never was interested  but the  wife  --3  daughters --1 son did the study and  joined  the church-----but  1st the  son then  the  mom and  daughters  all  left

the  reason  we  made them  good  S.D.A. members  but  not  followers  of  JESUS ------that was an  eye opener  for  me

so  what  we  need to  do  in our  studies  is to  get them to  understand to how to  follower  JESUS  then the  rest  will  follow

dgrimm60

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote

In 2013, the Center for Creative Ministry conducted an international survey of 1,053 former or inactive Seventh-day Adventists.

***

Many of the respondents interviewed were not raised in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Only 30% were brought up in Adventist homes; the remaining 70% were converted at some point in their lives. Forty-five percent of respondents had been raised or affiliated with another church previously, while 27% reported that they claimed no religion prior to converting to the Adventist Church.

 

Since the survey was international, the above percentages not really surprising.  If the 1000+ respondents were all from North America, I would venture to guess that those raised in the SDA church would represent a MUCH higher percentage.  At least 3/4 of my academy graduating class have left the SDA church.  

Life is a jigsaw puzzle.  When the church doesn't "fit" any of the openings — when it doesn't fill any gaps or felt needs — why waste your time trying to fit into *your* life a puzzle piece that belongs to someone else?  

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

[Gregory Matthews]

Pam has raised a valid point.

However:    [Pam, I'll bet you were expecting a 'However.'] 

No person should remain in a toxic organization.  It simply is not healthy.

There is a reality that sometimes an organization, or even a congregation, can be toxic toward a person.

In such a case, people should not be blamed for the choice that they make.

As SDA clergy I am well aware of situations where a local SDA congregation has become toxic to a specific individual.  The reality is:  There are some situations that develop where in order to experience the saving grace of Christ, an individual must separate from what is the only SDA Congregation that is functionally available to them.

   

[JoeMo]

I have been so disgusted or offended by SDA's or their congregation on some occasions that I have resorted to "church shopping".  Funny thing is, I always end up back at an SDA Church.  A different congregation; but an SDA church nonetheless.  Even the "non-denominational" churches I have attended have a "religion" (i.e., if you don't believe their form of "nondenominationalism", you are shunned.  I was teaching out of Daniel 7 - 9 at a "non-denominational" charismatic church a few years ago and was effectively banned from speaking or teaching there anymore because I was preaching "scary stuff" that people didn't want to hear.  The only thing they would allow to be taught was the warm fuzzy Jesus who dances and sings and smiles over us continually.  God forbid that someone preach about eschatology or the consequences of willful sin.  So - rather than just being a passive bench warmer, I went to a different SDA church and was welcomed with open arms as a worship leader and occasional preacher.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

It was the "people" who were the reasons I left the church.

But if it weren't for several "people" now, I'd bolt again.

[Gregory Matthews]

Wanderer, I call it like it is.

I let the  chips fall where they may.  Keeping in mind that I do believe that there are limits and boundaries as what the public needs to know and to discuss.

I am well known for this aspect of who I am.  This includes the General Conference which has known me for many years.  During those years, the GC has had the authority to terminate my employment by the Federal government, as exists under Federal law.

[Gregory Matthews]

Pam:  Thanks for sticking up with our quirks, here in CA.

We value you and are  glad that you are with us. You do contribute and add value to CA.

However, this does not mean that we won't challenge you and take you on if you give us an opening. 
 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Pam:  Thanks for sticking up with our quirks, here in CA.

We value you and are  glad that you are with us. You do contribute and add value to CA.

However, this does not mean that we won't challenge you and take you on if you give us an opening. 
 

heh...   

[aka]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

You know, I found that out to and after I dont know how many outbursts of mine you put up with I decided to use it for a learning and growth opportunity, lol Dont know if anyone's noticed that "growth" yet, but Ill keep trying.

Yes, count me to one of those who has noticed your growth in behaviour. In the last months of reading your messages I was holding my breath waiting for some sort of outburst on being insulted, being defensive, feeling misunderstood, and being critical or angry at what was said in topics in those years back. I had assumed you were under stress from your work place and needed to vent off.

But up till now all has been relatively smooth in your communications.

I'm glad for that.

[aka]

9 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

During t hose years, the GC has had the authority to terminate my employment by the Federal government, as exists under Federal law.

Gregory, I don't understand. How does that work?

[Gregory Matthews]

By request, this post has been moved to "SDA Chaplains in the Federal Government."

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

In a sense, all of us have to put up with everyone else and all have to put up with us.  I am where I am today due, in part to the fact that people in a position of the power to affect my life decided to cut me some slack.  I owe them.

Anyway, Wanderer, we are glad that you are here.  Yes, we do notice and appreciate some changes that w3e have seen in you.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

I will give an example of a situation where someone with the power to do so did me a real favor:

I was divorced, and shared joint custody with my ex-wife of our two minor sons.   I was notified that I was coming down on orders to Europe, for a 3-year, family accompanied, assignment.  I did not consider that to be workable.  I called the Pentagon and spoke to the person, about my situation.  I was offered a non-family, one-year assignment in South Korea.  I said that also did not meet my needs.  I stated that what I needed was a 2-year, family accompanied assignment to Seoul Korea.  I was immediately informed that such was not possible for me in my situation.  So, I thanked the assignment officer and left it in the hands of the Lord.

Shortly thereafter, orders came down that assiged  me to a 2-year,  family accompanied tour to Seoul,  Korea.

I was given family quarters in Korea and as a single parent my two sons rotated living with me.

To this day, I will have to say that from the human standpoint, I would never have been given such an assignment.  But, someone in the Pentagon, probably one who personally knew me, made it happen.  At that time it became my responsibility to make it work.  I did.

 

   

 

[Stan]

I actually cringe when I see this subject...   I have not read all the posts so this may have been covered.

 

If people are not allowed to leave, by their own choice, without pressure and harassment, after checking out adventism, then we become  like a cult.

[CoAspen]

Why they leave

After reading the above article, I came away with a not so positive felling about the view the church has on the subject. God didn't promise an easy path...people choose the easy road...their perception of the church was wrong...put up guardrails to keep them from drifting away. Are we somehow equating staying with the church as being saved, leaving and being lost?

What are you thoughts after reading?

[Gail]

I agree with you, I was not very encouraged after reading the article, either!

I was not surprised that marital problems is a huge cause of drifting away. From my days working in Singles ministries I know that divorce takes out many members.

I do like the image of the narrow road. Instead of viewing one narrow road maybe we should admit that each of us has our own narrow road, a hard one at that, and work to encourage each other on the way. Each of those crises that the article listed is part of someone's narrow road.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

it's not the "marital difficulties" or "family conflicts" or other "moral struggles" that cause many to leave the church... the article said, and I agree, it's ISOLATION.

[CoAspen]

The article, to me at least, did not seem to recognize that those within the church may be the ones pushing others out. I have known those who have left the 'SDA church' and it was not over the issues mentioned. It was as Pam said, they felt isolated from the church because of what they were experiencing, the mentioned isues being included. Until the church sees itself as a family and less of a 'religion', I do not see those numbers changing. All of the emphasis on 'narrow road' it will be 'tough' are not in any way reassuring to those in need. Why that emphasis when we also teach that Christ will take our burden and carry it for us? We teach that peace can be found in Christ. 

My two-cents on the matter is that until the SDA church presents ifself as a 'safe' place like a family and not a place of 'buckle up, it ain't easy' salvation is only on this 'narrow' road and all the other clap trap 'guide lines', people will leave and not for the 'easer' path. They just are not wanted without conformity to a particular organizations rules. Christ had open arms and welcomed everyone, He died for everyone. The fault is not with those leaving, it is us who are not listening to them.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think a lot leave simply because they don't feel like they "belong" ....

Sometimes I think there needs to be an "Island of Misfits" — where we can go, and feel like we have a semblance of acceptance.  (Kinda like the "island of misfit toys" on the old Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer Christmas special)

C/A is really the only "island" that comes anywhere close to that... (that I know of)

[BigMark]

On 12/21/2016 at 9:06 AM, JoeMo said:

Not much in the article; but I'm interested in seeing more.  In my 45 years in the church, I have seen far more than 40% if new converts leaving - it's more like 75%.  The biggest reasons I have seen is that many (especially younger members) find the typical SDA service to be "boring"; and they seek a more "inspiring" or "exciting" church.  Many people over 30 leave because some of the "saints" rebuke their use of jewelry, how they dress, how they talk, how they keep the Sabbath, how they smell like cigarettes or beer, or because they were "busted eating meat (or worse - pork!!)  Another reason they leave is because they didn't have the "full story" when they were baptized; especially about EGW.

Most of the people I know who have left Adventism have not left Christianity; they have simply found churches (mostly non-denominational) that are more inclusive of people who are still facing issues that they can't address personally with SDA's for fear of continued rebuke.

I did not grow up in the church, but have remained since baptism. My wife found out about Ellen and she left. I studied and found the claims against Ellen to be valid. I shared this information with others who thought it was from the devil, or something. I think it's the closest church to keeping the Bible, and I have found a lot of caring people. It seems like when I first joined (July 1980) there was a lot of what JoeMo talks about. Since the 90s, I have found that attitude waning. I guess it depends on the church one attends. Some are more "strict" than others. I guess it depends on the pastor. BTW, the best thing I did to understand God's word better was to evict Ellen from my house. You'd be surprised what people believe that's not in the Word. 

[BigMark]

I think the answer in the future will be small groups like the members of The Way did after Jesus' departure.

[JoeMo]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:54 PM, The Wanderer said:

lol, whats the matter with that?

Lack of balance.  Sure, we all like to hear about the love and grace of Jesus - that is the good news.  But when the entire congregation completely shuns any of the alleged unpleasantries of eschatology, and focuses solely on stuff that in my opinion, the bible never says (like when the Church conquers the world for Jesus, then the 2nd coming will take place), they miss a lot.  Who's going to be more overwhelmed - those who understand and are spiritually preparing for the tribulations ahead, or those who don't have a clue because they are expecting prosperity and peace staring now?