This is What is Wrong with TOP!

[Gregory Matthews]

A recent visitor to The One Project in San Diego, tells us what he believes is wrong with TOP.

See:

http://atoday.org/whats-wrong-with-the-one-project/

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

darest I mention I enjoyed the satire in the article?!

[Gregory Matthews]

No, you can not mention that. 

 

[CoAspen]

http://atoday.org/the-social-cost-of-conspiracy-theories/

This would be a good companion article! Some, alot, that is written against The One Project sounds very much like a conspiracy issue, based on spiritual fear.

[JoeMo]

That article was a great expose on the dangers of thinking outside the SDA box.  The next think you know, those TOP people will start having small Bible Studies at work (maybe even in the streets! ) with heathen non-Adventists instead of supporting massive in-church evangelistic efforts that are supported by an audience that is 90% Adventist.  What's more, if more people start keeping the Sabbath, our churches may not be big enough to hold the overflow!  Who's gonna pay for those new churches??!!

[Jeannieb43]

My son, a middle-aged physician, attended TOP's meetings in San Diego with his family.   He felt enriched spiritually by the entire weekend.

[bonnie]

If someone were searching to be drawn closer to Jesus what would help them do that? The ridicule,absurd mockery and contempt for those that do not share their view of "movements" as TOPS. Using satire to thinly disguise what is their true feelings for those other so called christians? If others don't appreciate that it is clear they don't appreciate humor,all innocent good clean fun that reflects the true feelings hiding behind satire. Would they look at the results/actions/contempt by  those promoting Tops?  Do those that oppose TOPS really share the questionable values thrown at them seriously and by satire? Would they want to have anything to do with a denomination that doesn't want bible studies with the"heathen" That idea certainly has been promoted both seriously and satire, is it true?  Is it true the poor are shunned by those so called christians? That also has has been promoted both seriously and satire.

The messenger is really seen and evaluated before the message. Would someone searching look at the messengers for Tops here and elsewhere and determine that is what they wanted to be? Would they look at "those other christians" and determine that is what they want to be? Or maybe neither. Personally I would not want to be part of TOPS knowing if I rejected it I would be part of those ridiculed. Nor would I want to be part of a denomination or belief that was guilty of  self righteous bigotry, narrow minded,judgemental and shallow. All has been used to describe those with a more conservative ideology

Would a question form in their mind regarding "Do not judge"? as those repeating that endlessly judge those that disagree with them? Humorously of course. God loves humor after all.

 

[Green Cochoa]

25 minutes ago, bonnie said:

God loves humor after all.

You reminded me of a couple of interesting Bible verses.

"The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming." (Psalm 37:13)

"Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?  But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision." (Psalm 59:7-8)

[CoAspen]

I am reminded that all people, normaly, have fingers.....they can always push the botton to turn off the TV. It used to be the 'thing' to condemn TV w/o ever having seen what was being presented. Judging w/o ever learning of the content for themselves. The same is happening with TOP. But then, when persons point out that the content is not what is being projected by those w/o personal experience of TOP, it is called 'judging' by those opposed! Say what!

Quote

 Using satire to thinly disguise what is their true feelings for those other so called christians? 

 Hmmmmm.....judgeing I see!!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

**off topic**

It's a shame people feel the need to condemn others on the type of humor that amuses them.  Having worked weekends and nights in the Emergency Room of a medical center, my sense of humor might be warped in the view of some.  (Anyone who has worked in that area for such a length of time and says their humor can't be seen as being sometimes "twisted" probably isn't telling the whole truth.)  I've seen some pretty horrifying things.  It's only through the use of "dark humor" that people are able to manage.  The "GomerBlog" is a rich source of humor for medical professionals, that would most likely be seen as insulting and offensive by those who haven't been in the saddle.

**back to topic**

[CoAspen]

M*A*S*H !!!!

(I can hear Hawkeye now)

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, CoAspen said:

I am reminded that all people, normaly, have fingers.....they can always push the botton to turn off the TV. It used to be the 'thing' to condemn TV w/o ever having seen what was being presented. Judging w/o ever learning of the content for themselves. The same is happening with TOP. But then, when persons point out that the content is not what is being projected by those w/o personal experience of TOP, it is called 'judging' by those opposed! Say what!

 Hmmmmm.....judgeing I see!!!

And is the ridicule along with the serious comments directed at those with a negative view showing them what they are by not attending themselves? I have never attended,don't plan to. I have made a decision based on who promotes it,how and why. Many things on TV you don't have to view to know you don't care to. Some might expect to see how this spiritually uplifting,drawing closer to Jesus manifests itself in those promoting it.

You deny this.........  Using satire to thinly disguise what is their true feelings for those other so called christians?  reflects what has been said without the excuse of humor directed at those with a more conservative ideology? 

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

**off topic**

It's a shame people feel the need to condemn others on the type of humor that amuses them.  Having worked weekends and nights in the Emergency Room of a medical center, my sense of humor might be warped in the view of some.  (Anyone who has worked in that area for such a length of time and says their humor can't be seen as being sometimes "twisted" probably isn't telling the whole truth.)  I've seen some pretty horrifying things.  It's only through the use of "dark humor" that people are able to manage.  The "GomerBlog" is a rich source of humor for medical professionals, that would most likely be seen as insulting and offensive by those who haven't been in the saddle.

**back to topic**

The sole purpose of posting this topic was ridicule,not to promote the spiritual or uplifting merits of TOPS. It is as much of a shame that some people refuse to acknowledge that the continued use of the absurd depiction of others reflects very closely how they see those that disagree with them.   

Did your use of "dark humor" reflect how you felt about the patients generally?  

[bonnie]

If someone were searching to be drawn closer to Jesus what would help them do that? The ridicule,absurd mockery and contempt for those that do not share their view of "movements" as TOPS. Using satire to thinly disguise what is their true feelings for those other so called christians? If others don't appreciate that it is clear they don't appreciate humor,all innocent good clean fun that reflects the true feelings hiding behind satire. Would they look at the results/actions/contempt by  those promoting Tops?  Do those that oppose TOPS really share the questionable values thrown at them seriously and by satire? Would they want to have anything to do with a denomination that doesn't want bible studies with the"heathen" That idea certainly has been promoted both seriously and satire, is it true?  Is it true the poor are shunned by those so called christians? That also has has been promoted both seriously and satire.

The messenger is really seen and evaluated before the message. Would someone searching look at the messengers for Tops here and elsewhere and determine that is what they wanted to be? Would they look at "those other christians" and determine that is what they want to be? Or maybe neither. Personally I would not want to be part of TOPS knowing if I rejected it I would be part of those ridiculed. Nor would I want to be part of a denomination or belief that was as  a self righteous bigot,

Would a question form in their mind regarding "Do not judge"? as those repeating that endlessly judge those that disagree with them? Humorously of course. God loves humor after all.

 

[bonnie]

Not the same but the general idea is the same.  In business if someone is trying to convince me of the superiority of his product it will not be by condemning and insulting false absurd comparisons to his "competition".  He will tell me and more importantly show me the benefits of his superior product. Not promote his by insults and tearing down of others. If he does we part company quickly

[bonnie]

I have read quite a bit pro and con on TOPS. Have never attended. I know a few that I have . Knowing them for a number of years and how they have lived their lives and treat others I have great deal of respect for their opinion and being factual  as to why they hold certain views.  They don't want any part of it.  Which opinion is valid?  Comparing their opinion to the positive opinions and how  presented here and elsewhere online there is no contest. We have one church here that is pastored by a man that is an enthusiastic supporter of TOPS. The effect on his church membership is telling. So his is response to those members that are not as enthusiastic.

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, bonnie said:

as those repeating that endlessly judge those that disagree with them? Humorously of course. God loves humor after all.

...and that remark is not satirical or sarcastic?

[bonnie]

No it was neither. You forgot part.

Would a question form in their mind regarding "Do not judge"? as those repeating that endlessly judge those that disagree with them? Humorously of course. God loves humor after all.

 

Has  Humorously of course. God loves humor after all  been repeated as a defense repeatedly  Do you think it would be odd for someone listening to "Thou shalt not judge" listening to the judgement of those that did not embrace TOPS? Might it make them wonder what might be showered on them if they did not embrace TOPS?

The pastor of the church I mentioned earlier uses a very similar sounding satire both from the pulpit and on facebook to show how TOPS has impacted his life. Many of his congregation have reacted as you would expect

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The Wanderers quote related to W. G. Johnsson, might be misunderstood by  some.

Here is the important part from that quote:

And the crowd  [at the San  Diego TOP Gathering] gave him the second standing ovation of the meeting.  He told us of his life as an Adventist, and of attending a One Project in Seattle, then being so overtaken by the message of Jesus that he has attended all of them since then.  And he has the conviction that the One Project is the most hopeful thing in Adventism that he has ever seen

 

[JoeMo]

I look forward to attending TOP gatherings after I retire (10 months from now !!!)

NOTE: This post is neither satire nor sarcasm.

[bonnie]

3 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I look forward to attending TOP gatherings after I retire (10 months from now !!!)

NOTE: This post is neither satire nor sarcasm.

And it shoulnt be taken as such. There is a difference that makes your post and that of the quote of the life long adventist different. The sole purpose of posting the satire in this topic is ridicule and absurd depiction of those that dont hold the same view.  Not all will have the same experience regarding something like Tops. For those that dont they are open to ridicule by the "saints" that claim to have been drawn closer to Jesus.

[bonnie]

I think if it were me and was unfamliar with christianity and SDA's ,both would be a huge turnoff. 

[bonnie]

50 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

This reads like someone who is ridiculing the ridiculars. It is a very large "I think."

Not unless that is the way you want to read it,no ridicule at all. If I were not a SDA and searching, finding out more of the serious and "satire"  descriptions of SDA here it would have me running for the hills. Hypocritical, petty in their beliefs,judgmental, small minded,if you don't dress right you are not really welcome,and don't forget the poor,regardless pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you will be fine.

Just what is there that is appealing or attractive about being SDA to someone that is unfamiliar with what we believe?

That is not satire or ridicule,it has been said many times here.

If I were interested in what TOPS claims to offer why would I believe or want to be part of this claim it draws you closer to Jesus? Then witness the  sole purpose of a topic created to ridicule,not  to promote the benefits and merits of what TOP offers? In addition to the numerous times when posts are made at the slightest opportunity doing the same. When we were young and asked our dad about end time events he always told us not to be so concerned about those on the outside but those sitting in the pews with you. More and more I appreciate his common sense and knowledge.

I had a pastor/teacher,terrific guy, even had a fantastic sense of humor. I don't recall what was taking place at the time but we asked him how to tell the true from the untrue if the untrue looked so attractive.  As time marched on he said we would have many new and improved. One simple rule. What does the new and and improved Christianity produce in it's follower's? 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

7 hours ago, bonnie said:

The sole purpose of posting this topic was ridicule

and you know this, how?  Mental telepathy with Gregory?

 

I've never been to a TOP meeting.  I have, however, read the book.  The article mentioned in the OP does, in fact, give the reader an idea of some TOP's building blocks.  The author does use some very mild satire, but honestly....do the issues of box lunches or men's ties really warrant moral outrage and the label of "ridicule"?  C'mon now.  That's just not reasonable.

I've also seen absolutely NO condemnation of TOP critics by TOP supporters.  The condemnation has been from the critics....and it's their right to condemn if that's how they see things.  But no one has been forcing anyone to accept TOP or be involved in it.

Obviously, TOP is not for everyone.  It wasn't supposed to be, and nobody said it was.  

[B/W Photodude]

5 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I've also seen absolutely NO condemnation of TOP critics by TOP supporters.  The condemnation has been from the critics....and it's their right to condemn if that's how they see things.  But no one has been forcing anyone to accept TOP or be involved in it.

 

I suspect that many of the critics of TOP are those of the more conservative SDAs or "old school" Adventists. While there may not be any criticism of the TOP critics, the criticism of Seventh-day Adventism is very plain to some who have attended a TOP conference. Specific examples are in the linked to article:

http://advindicate.com/articles/2014/3/4/one-project-present-or-emergent-truth