bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 45 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: and you know this, how? Mental telepathy with Gregory? I've never been to a TOP meeting. I have, however, read the book. The article mentioned in the OP does, in fact, give the reader an idea of some TOP's building blocks. The author does use some very mild satire, but honestly....do the issues of box lunches or men's ties really warrant moral outrage and the label of "ridicule"? C'mon now. That's just not reasonable. I've also seen absolutely NO condemnation of TOP critics by TOP supporters. The condemnation has been from the critics....and it's their right to condemn if that's how they see things. But no one has been forcing anyone to accept TOP or be involved in it. Obviously, TOP is not for everyone. It wasn't supposed to be, and nobody said it was. Box lunches and ties do become an issue when fleshed out to show absurd shallow beliefs. Why do I believe this topic to be soley for ridicule? First the topic ,then goes on in depth on the absurdity" No one has claimed force is used to accept Tops. As for involvement that is not exactly true. When a SDA pastor embraces , actually uses satire. very similar to that used in this topic to promote the superioty of Tops,members have a choice. Put up with disrespect or leave.,which they have been invited to do. Fot some leaving means disrupting their kids and leaving a cburch family they have been part of for many years. Tops is not for everyone and those it is not for should not feel like they are center stage of SNL. As mentioned with link added. Yes Tops supporters ridicule Tops Critics at Tops meetings.Those that I know personally that have attended have made reference before this to the notes taken. As to who to believe. No contest. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Wanderer said: A picture that doesnt reflect the actions. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 9, 2017 Members Posted March 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, bonnie said: Box lunches and ties do become an issue when fleshed out to show absurd shallow beliefs. Why do I believe this topic to be soley for ridicule? First the topic ,then goes on in depth on the absurdity" No one has claimed force is used to accept Tops. As for involvement that is not exactly true. When a SDA pastor embraces , actually uses satire. very similar to that used in this topic to promote the superioty of Tops,members have a choice. Put up with disrespect or leave.,which they have been invited to do. Fot some leaving means disrupting their kids and leaving a cburch family they have been part of for many years. Tops is not for everyone and those it is not for should not feel like they are center stage of SNL. As mentioned with link added. Yes Tops supporters ridicule Tops Critics at Tops meetings.Those that I know personally that have attended have made reference before this to the notes taken. As to who to believe. No contest. all I can say is that you certainly view the article differently than I do... so be it. JoeMo 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: all I can say is that you certainly view the article differently than I do... so be it. Yes we do. I think that whole article has one purpose. That is to portray Top critics as shallow crack pots. Nothing constructive. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
JoeMo Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 12 hours ago, bonnie said: What does the new and and improved Christianity produce in it's follower's? That is a deep question. After thinking about it, a "new and improved Chritianity" should produce whatever the believer needs. Everyone is different. Some people value relationship over contract compliance. For those people, TOP is probably a good thing. Some people want to get more out of their faith than just the satisfaction of complying with the rules - they want an experience. For them, a more charismatic church might be good. For some, the historic legacy and purity of their faith is paramount; as well as the certainty of a divinely inspired list of dos and don'ts, a traditional conservative church is best. In short, a "new and improved Christianity" will look different to different people. Quote
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, JoeMo said: That is a deep question. After thinking about it, a "new and improved "Christianity" should produce whatever the believer needs. Everyone is different. Some people value relationship over contract compliance. For those people, TOP is probably a good thing. Some people want to get more out of their faith than just the satisfaction of complying with the rules - they want an experience. For them, a more charismatic church might be good. For some, the historic legacy and purity of their faith is paramount; as well as the certainty of a divinely inspired list of dos and don'ts, a traditional conservative church is best. In short, a "new and improved Christianity" will look different to different people. What is contract compliance to you? So is it one or the other. Does a relationship cancel out the need for complying with the rule/ten commandments? We are also assured when He returns He will bring His rewards with him. Reward for what If you believe the bible to be a divinely inspired list of dos and don'ts, a guide for our lives TOPS has something different and improved to offer. In a marriage there won't be much of a relationship if the relationship is valued above or in place of "compliance with the rules".For couples attempting to improve their relationship would they do well to value that and to disregard the compliance of the rules. How do you have a new and improved relationship with Jesus and disregard his rules? We are told Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators debbym Posted March 9, 2017 Administrators Posted March 9, 2017 37 minutes ago, JoeMo said: That is a deep question. After thinking about it, a "new and improved Chritianity" should produce whatever the believer needs. Everyone is different. Some people value relationship over contract compliance. For those people, TOP is probably a good thing. Some people want to get more out of their faith than just the satisfaction of complying with the rules - they want an experience. For them, a more charismatic church might be good. For some, the historic legacy and purity of their faith is paramount; as well as the certainty of a divinely inspired list of dos and don'ts, a traditional conservative church is best. In short, a "new and improved Christianity" will look different to different people. some just want more of Jesus in every area of their lives, His wisdom, His strength, His faith, His trust in His Father... His love for those around them..... CoAspen and JoeMo 2 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
JoeMo Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Bonnie, You ask too many argumentative questions. I was attempting to be conciliatory; and give a simple answer that people are different, and thus have different needs and priorities. I am neither a prophet nor a scholar; nor was my post meant to be another attack vector. Your questions would be answered differently by me and someone else. You remind me of some others here who search for dark clouds in every silver lining, justifying it by what you believe to be the true reading of the faith. Either that, or you just like to argue for the sake of showing everyone how smart you are. I'm done with this thread. Quote
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Revelation 22:12 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be Do the works spoken of here have anything to do with the divinely inspired list of dos and don'ts of Jesus Like this Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, JoeMo said: Bonnie, You ask too many argumentative questions. I was attempting to be conciliatory; and give a simple answer that people are different, and thus have different needs and priorities. I am neither a prophet nor a scholar; nor was my post meant to be another attack vector. Your questions would be answered differently by me and someone else. You remind me of some others here who search for dark clouds in every silver lining, justifying it by what you believe to be the true reading of the faith. I'm done with this thread. I was not being argumentative. I wanted to be clear as to what you meant. Not as a scholar or prophet just what you personally meant Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
CoAspen Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Quote In a marriage there won't be much of a relationship if the relationship is valued above or in place of "compliance with the rules". Love replaces 'rules', that is the type of 'relationship' wanted for humans by God, my belief. 'Rule compliance' may give a person directions for learning about what is needed for a relationship of love but can't sustain it, my belief. JoeMo 1 Quote
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, CoAspen said: Love replaces 'rules', that is the type of 'relationship' wanted for humans by God, my belief. 'Rule compliance' may give a person directions for learning about what is needed for a relationship of love but can't sustain it, my belief. The 2nd of March we have been married 55 years. That would not be so without a desire and willingness to follow divinely inspired biblical rules along with side by side a growing relationship. Those without a biblical belief can and do have a long and happy marriage but it still takes both. A growing relationship and a compliance with certain rules of behavior Relationships and rules go hand in hand,side by side. A growing relationship with Jesus cannot be sustained by disregarding His divinely inspired rules. Not out of fear or to move up the ladder to eternal life but one leads to the other. Divinely inspired rules followed because of fear or hypocritical reasons will not lead to a growing relationship,neither will claiming a relationship and discarding divinely inspired rules Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 9, 2017 Members Posted March 9, 2017 It has been proclaimed that the purpose of the OP's article is to portray the critics of TOP as "shallow crackpots." I find the term amusing. Does that mean there's going to be a new forum comprised of "Crackpots, United"? Maybe there will be a new Pathfinder honor on the art of "Crackpotting"... Maybe a new book will come out on "How to be a Crackpot in Today's Church"... Or, for those whose friends and families have disowned them, there can be a "Crackpots Anonymous" support group. I generally like "crackpots".... they give flavor and color to the world of mediocracy, dullness, and routine. Wait a minute! It's the TOP people who are "outside the box." Maybe *they* are really the crackpots... Reminds me of the Japanese art of kintsukuroi. Cracked pots aren't thrown away as being useless garbage. They are mended with gold, because even though the crackpot is broken, its creator took great care and patience in its creation. But the cracked pots became more beautiful for having been broken. But I digress... GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
bonnie Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 47 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: It has been proclaimed that the purpose of the OP's article is to portray the critics of TOP as "shallow crackpots." I find the term amusing. Does that mean there's going to be a new forum comprised of "Crackpots, United"? Maybe there will be a new Pathfinder honor on the art of "Crackpotting"... Maybe a new book will come out on "How to be a Crackpot in Today's Church"... Or, for those whose friends and families have disowned them, there can be a "Crackpots Anonymous" support group. I generally like "crackpots".... they give flavor and color to the world of mediocracy, dullness, and routine. Wait a minute! It's the TOP people who are "outside the box." Maybe *they* are really the crackpots... Reminds me of the Japanese art of kintsukuroi. Cracked pots aren't thrown away as being useless garbage. They are mended with gold, because even though the crackpot is broken, its creator took great care and patience in its creation. But the cracked pots became more beautiful for having been broken. But I digress... Excellent Pam,Very Good!!LOL I would think if you could get a few of your suggestions put into a regular forum here it would be a great way to draw others closer to Jesus. True Talent always shows Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Good satire with a strong side-kick to the ribs of the church. Spiritual abuse? I look forward to finding out for myself in Atlanta or New York. Quote
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 8, 2017 Author Moderators Posted April 8, 2017 Finding out for yourself: Good idea. I wish that more would do such. NOTE: The recent Gathering in San Diego was totally focused on the Biblical book of Revelation. Quote Gregory
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