Stan Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Spiritual Abuse os often starts with "If you REALLY love Jesus" GayatfootofCross 1 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
GayatfootofCross Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Yes .. .. In a marriage it can be used as emotional blackmail. 41 minutes ago, Stan said: Spiritual Abuse os often stars with "If you REALLY love Jesus" Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Stan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 I remember when I was about to be baptized.. A lady was going to take her stand, she had a wedding ring on, her husband said it stays on as long as you publicly declare I am your husband. She was told "If you really love Jesus more than your Husband, you will take it off. She left, never to return that I am aware of. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
aka Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 This is really cute: Spiritual Abuse os often stars with... Let me give you a pro bono translation on that. "Spiritual abuse quite often starts with..." Honey, you do have a paid secretary, right? Run your twitters by her and see what happens in your battle for success. Quote
Outta Here Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 32 minutes ago, Stan said: I remember when I was about to be baptized.. A lady was going to take her stand, she had a wedding ring on, her husband said it stays on as long as you publicly declare I am your husband. She was told "If you really love Jesus more than your Husband, you will take it off. She left, never to return that I am aware of. That poor lady had abuse at home AND at church! I hope that one day she found a better husband and a better church. So sad! Stan 1 Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 16, 2017 Members Posted March 16, 2017 After I was baptized, my boss (who happened to also be an SDA minister and the company president) used spiritual abuse to bully me into doing things I didn't want to do. It was horrible. Over the course of my employment, he cheated me out of over $50K, as well as bullying me into helping him participate in Medicare fraud of well over $200K. Horrible. By the time I was convinced (by a pastor and counselor) to dump that job, I was a basket case. It was after that experience that I vowed to never EVER let anyone anywhere use spiritual abuse against me ever again. And by the way, that company folded, and my ex-boss went on to work again for the SDA church. GayatfootofCross and Stan 2 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
JoeMo Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 The "beloved" SDA teacher that molested my son was also just quietly transferred to another SDA school across the country by the church while my son was "shunned" (in the Amish sense of the word) until he left the church out of discouragement and ended up blaming himself for the abuse. Stan and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 so sad for all of the above ^ Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 17, 2017 Moderators Posted March 17, 2017 Spiritual abuse, within the SDA Church happens. It cannot be dismissed. The first step in dealing with it, is to recognize that it exists. Ron Amnsn, GayatfootofCross, Stan and 1 other 4 Quote Gregory
Members phkrause Posted March 18, 2017 Members Posted March 18, 2017 Like the time that a camp counselor told me I was going to hell! I could quote other wonderful things that were thrown at me. Personally, I don't blame the SDA church for that, I blame individuals!! Stan 1 Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Is it spiritual abuse when under God's direction one of His children does this? NIV84 | Is 58:1 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins. " Stan 1 Quote
CoAspen Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 ...house of Jacob...how long ago was that? What was the setting? Who was in attendance? Who was being directly addressed? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Just put "house of SDAs" and you'll get the setting. Quote
CoAspen Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I don't make giant leaps in logic. There were no SDA's in the Bible...as popular as that concept might be!!! Ron Amnsn 1 Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 18, 2017 Members Posted March 18, 2017 spiritual abuse is using manipulation and "spin" of spiritual needs, wants, desires, and beliefs in order to gain control over someone... there's nothing "God-directed" about it. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
LifeHiscost Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 31 minutes ago, CoAspen said: I don't make giant leaps in logic. There were no SDA's in the Bible...as popular as that concept might be!!! I'm assuming you're of the opinion no one in the Bible kept the seventh day or believed in His advent. 2As was Paul’s custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people. 3He explained the prophecies and proved that the Messiah must suffer and rise from the dead. He said, “This Jesus I’m telling you about is the Messiah.” ...Acts 17 20“I have spoken openly to the world, Jesus answered. “I always taught in the synagogues and at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. 21Why are you asking Me? Ask those who heard My message. Surely they know what I said.”… John 18 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
CoAspen Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 If my last name is the same as the president, it does not follow that I am directly or even indirectly related. Just because one worships on the 7th day of the week, does not make them SDA. Our beliefs, what ever the number, make for an SDA. There are others who choose to worship that day and believe in the 2nd advent, they are not considered SDA's. I find it rather specious to try and tag everyone who believes the same as us on those two or even more issues as being SDA's. By trying to claim Biblical persons as being SDA the effort is to make us seem more superior or legitimate. Christ taught extensivly against such an attitude. JoeMo, phkrause and Ron Amnsn 3 Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Jesus also started with, "If you love me, you will...." Jn 14:15. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 8 hours ago, CoAspen said: I don't make giant leaps in logic. There were no SDA's in the Bible...as popular as that concept might be!!! Uh, the Bible is not speaking to SDAs then? Stan 1 Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Very few are mature enough to accept reproof, that's why the prophets were loathed for "spiritual abuse". Stephen was stoned. I think One was even crucified for that crime. So even when abominations creep in the church, it's not pc to say anything. You're okay, I'm okay. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 what a picture of god we paint for others to see with our actions and words demanding manipulative violent abusive insecure and we wonder why people aren't clamoring to us to sign them up meanwhile there is a tiny movement where knowledge is increased and increasing about Who GOD really is HE is the most meek humble self sacrificing selfless loveliest BEING in all the Land! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 Gerry asked in the quote below: * Spiritual abuse may come from individuals and it may come from the denominational organization. * Drawing on a legal background, denominations have been required to pay damages for the actions of their clergy. * I am personal aware of a child who was taught to lie in the name of the Lord, in order to do the work of the Lord! That was spiritual abuse. * You ask about someone doing something in the name of the Lord. Well, we humans often are deceived as to what God is asking us to do. See the next one above. * Another case, of which I am aware: A young woman attended an evangelistic series and took Bible studies. As a result she decided to join the SDA denomination and she made major changes in her life. In this process, she became pregnant with the Father being the person who gave her the Bible studies that brought her into SDA membership. In her condition, she went to a female SDA employee (employed in ministry) and asked for advice and help. The result was that a letter was circulated to the women in the congregation informing them that she should not be allowed to be alone with their husbands. Folks that was spiritual abuse. * Yes, spiritual abuse always has an individual, aspect. But, we live in a society where organizations are held responsible for the actions of their members. In this context, the SDA denomination has at times spiritually abused another. We should not be complicit in this by dismissing such as solely an individual matter. Is it spiritual abuse when under God's direction one of His children does this? NIV84 | Is 58:1 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins. " JoeMo 1 Quote Gregory
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2017 Moderators Posted March 18, 2017 When I tell my patient/brother, "If you love your wife, your children, your little baby, you will/should/must stop smoking/drinking/doing drugs/dividing the church/etc. Is that medical/spiritual abuse? Stan 1 Quote
Ron Amnsn Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Gerry Cabalo said: Very few are mature enough to accept reproof, that's why the prophets were loathed for "spiritual abuse". Stephen was stoned. I think One was even crucified for that crime. So even when abominations creep in the church, it's not pc to say anything. You're okay, I'm okay. Jerry, I think people do need to speak up when they see wrong things in a congregation, and doing so would not be spiritual abuse, as long as we are following the instructions Jesus gave in Matthew 18:15-17, and we are rebuking something that the Bible (interpreted in context) also rebukes. Usually in cases of spiritual abuse, it is often people who lack organizational authority who are called by God to rebuke those who do have authority within an organization, and things often get ugly when the little guy confronts the bigger guy. That may be what happened in Stephen's case and in Jesus' case. However, Jesus came to earth intending to die so there were other factors at work there. For me, spiritual abuse happens when a person who has spiritual authority (or perceived spiritual authority) abuses that authority in a way that harms another person, often for personal gain (prestige, control, career advancement, etc.) The statement that Stan referred to in the opening post, "If you really love _____" is often used to manipulate people. Manipulation is one tool used by those who are spiritually abusing others. While parents have a responsibility to train and guide their children in the ways of God, and we have a responsibility within our circle of influence to admonish other believers, I don't think we are given the right to decide what another person needs to do to in order to "prove" that they love God or family. When Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments," I don't think Jesus was trying to manipulate his followers by challenging them to prove their love by keeping his commandments. Rather, I think Jesus was describing the natural result of loving Jesus. Quote
Stan Posted March 19, 2017 Author Posted March 19, 2017 10 hours ago, Gerry Cabalo said: When I tell my patient/brother, "If you love your wife, your children, your little baby, you will/should/must stop smoking/drinking/doing drugs/dividing the church/etc. Is that medical/spiritual abuse? I do not view that as abuse, you were not trying to manipulate people for your own agenda. Over the years no2 17 of them, I have never seen you anything, in my opinion that was abusive at all. Yet you confronted issues in a way that I think Jesus would have. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
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