Is there lard in the beans?

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Shane said:

There are all sorts of laws in the books of Moses that most all theologians agree no long apply to us today.

actually I would like to do away with some of the Theologians..

 

New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

[CoAspen]

Quote

actually I would like to do away with some of the Theologians.. 

Of course the downside to that, is if everyone got their wish......

[Jeannieb43]

I've recently retired and moved into a luxurious retirement community, where our meals are served in a fine dining room from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.  I'm the only Adventist living here; and I'm the only vegetarian.  When other residents ask me about my dietary habits, and why I make those particular choices, I explain that my food choices are based on the Biblical rules:  all plant-based, plus eggs and cheese, but omitting any scavenger meat or shellfish.   [I myself don't care for any meat at all, but if I'm pressed, I explain that I have at times eaten beef and chicken, which are not prohibited by the Bible.]  The waiters have come to be familiar with my choices, and sometimes they've intercepted something which I had ordered without knowing [the salad dressing had bacon chips, for instance, in it.]

BTW, if anybody from Adventistan wants to come for a visit, just send me a letter here.   I can entertain people for meals whenever I plan ahead.   And the town is a lovely town for sightseeing.

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

shouldn't the person have asked a clerk about the ingredients to avoid sinning by eating Satan Beans?

[8thdaypriest]

12 hours ago, Jeannieb43 said:

scavenger meat or shellfish.

IF anyone asks I say that "I don't eat scavengers or bottom feeders".  Bottom feeders are the filtration system to clean the waters.   Why would I eat one of the filters from God's water treatment plant? 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

 

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I hope you realize I was not being completely serious?

 

I hope you realize I was only pretending to be frightened or scandalized. 

[Gustave]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:15 AM, Shane said:

So I go to a restaurant that is owned by an unbeliever, the waiter places a plate of beans in front of me.  Do I need to ask if there is lard in the beans?

Note:  the unbeliever who owns the restaurant has been running ads on TV inviting everyone to his restaurant. 

Corinth ( in St. Paul's time ) was a wealthy City with a heavy Roman Military presence...

…Therefore IF a non-believer invited a Christian to dinner it would have been non-Kosher.

…I.E. things would be served a religiously compliant Jew would not eat.

 

The instruction to Christians in the text you cited is that you should worry about what is served…

…If there is “lard in the beans” as you say OR if it’s a lobster be thankful to God and enjoy it.

…The point is that food no longer separates people as it did for the Jews prior to the death of Christ.

 

The ancient Jews weren’t forbidden to eat certain things by God because “it was unhealthy for them”…

…God people was to be SEPARATED from the other people of the world & as God said.

…”A people unto myself” – it’s hard to fellowship with people YOU CAN’T EAT WITH.

 

This was the reason behind the food laws found in the Old Testament….

…Paul instructs believers THAT has ended.

 

Paul is quick to state however that IF the host boasts that the food was offered to “idols”..

…A believer shouldn’t eat it ( for the sake of the Host ).

….A believer knows an idol is just wood or stone.

….It’s nothing but a non-believer doesn’t know that.

[Gustave]

11 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

IF anyone asks I say that "I don't eat scavengers or bottom feeders".  Bottom feeders are the filtration system to clean the waters.   Why would I eat one of the filters from God's water treatment plant? 

Because they are tasty & statistically you're less likely to get a "food borne illness" from that than you are poultry...

...Poultry by itself has caused more food borne illness & death than all "filtration system" animals combined.

 

The point St. Paul makes is that food ISN'T [ after Christ ] what should separate people...

...If you don't like clams or lobsters don't eat them -  but don't offend people who invite you to dinner.

...By informing them you don't eat garbage [ like they do ].

 

 

[Outta Here]

Offending someone who invited you to dinner is a sure-fire way to be casually left off the invitation list next time...and the time after that, and the time after that...

[Gustave]

29 minutes ago, Aubrey said:

Offending someone who invited you to dinner is a sure-fire way to be casually left off the invitation list next time...and the time after that, and the time after that...

Well said Aubrey.

God could care less if someone eats a shrimp or a pork chop - God cares how we treat others and while food laws was serious stuff for the Jews it became a dead system after Christ.

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

4 hours ago, Gustave said:

Well said Aubrey.

God could care less if someone eats a shrimp or a pork chop - God cares how we treat others and while food laws was serious stuff for the Jews it became a dead system after Christ.

 

 

Thank you! My goodness! Gustave. All your posts up here!

 

One of the things I bring up in my circle are these scriptures! (it goes over like dead weight as I mentioned before )

Paul tells the Believers/Gentiles or at least missionaries to the Gentiles.

"If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience". I Cor 10:27 -uhh THE OP QUESTION!

and Even JESUS Himself does away with all that with  "When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you." Luke 10:8

Knowing full well just on the other side of the lake they are all about the swine in food and trade. Mark 5

and Shane said something earlier here .. (I noticed this scripture years ago when I started looking at things differently on how God relates to us and how we to reflect HIM.. )

"  We might well note that gentile nations ate pork and the eating of unclean meat was not listed among the prohibitions in Acts 15:29 "

 

Why don't any of these WORDS of GOD fly?

 

On 5/24/2017 at 3:06 PM, Shane said:

 

 

[Gustave]

5 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said:

Thank you! My goodness! Gustave. All your posts up here!

 

One of the things I bring up in my circle are these scriptures! (it goes over like dead weight as I mentioned before )

Paul tells the Believers/Gentiles or at least missionaries to the Gentiles.

"If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience". I Cor 10:27 -uhh THE OP QUESTION!

and Even JESUS Himself does away with all that with  "When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you." Luke 10:8

Knowing full well just on the other side of the lake they are all about the swine in food and trade. Mark 5

and Shane said something earlier here .. (I noticed this scripture years ago when I started looking at things differently on how God relates to us and how we to reflect HIM.. )

"  We might well note that gentile nations ate pork and the eating of unclean meat was not listed among the prohibitions in Acts 15:29 "

 

Why don't any of these WORDS of GOD fly?

 

 

 

As I said earlier, the dietary restrictions God placed on the Jews were a means to "separate them" from the surrounding peoples. People that can't "share a meal" together have little if any chance of fellowshipping. Jesus came and ended all of that kind of stuff and it's now as you pointed out in the Scriptures you posted above.

Ellen and the early Seventh-day Adventists desperately needed to keep those early "SDA's" separated from the other Adventists and dietary restrictions went a very long way to doing that.

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:47 PM, Aubrey said:

There is no proof that it was, either.  In a practical sense, way may never prove that it wasn't.  It is much more difficult to prove a negative (that bacon didn't cause it) than a positive (that bacon did cause it).  I'll buy your bacon theory when they prove bacon DID indeed cause their degenerative state.

In the Ancient Middle East, swine carried leprosy.  If an Israelite was a leper, it was assumed he/she had been touching swine (participating in pagan sacrificial ritual).  Hence the command not even to touch swine.  The Philistines were BIG keepers of swine.   Even in Egypt, there was a special sacrificial ritual to the "god" of the underworld on the nite of the first full moon of the Spring Equinox.  (Yes - the day that became Passover.)  A pig was sacrificed.   

Many of the commands were to separate the Israelites from pagan cultures around them.  The Babylonians/Assyrians trimmed their beards in a special way, especially the priests of those cultures.  Cuts in special patterns and tattoos were also marks of those cultures.  The idea was for Israel to be separate from those cultures.

Most folks do not realize that the blood of the Passover lamb, was painted OVER the symbols of Egyptian "gods" - those symbols were found painted and etched around the doorways of even the most humble dwellings in Egypt.

Those who know a lot about spiritual warfare, know that wearing certain symbols can actually give Satan the legal right to advance a claim against those persons.   God did not want Satan to have any claim to advance against Israel.  When Moses had not yet circumcised his son, God warned him, that by neglect of this command, Moses put the whole family in danger - from the spirit realm.

We discuss the topics of diet and dress, as if they only involve only health, and culture, and our eventual "salvation", and  "what God wants".   

[Gustave]

39 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

In the Ancient Middle East, swine carried leprosy.  If an Israelite was a leper, it was assumed he/she had been touching swine (participating in pagan sacrificial ritual).  Hence the command not even to touch swine.  The Philistines were BIG keepers of swine.   Even in Egypt, there was a special sacrificial ritual to the "god" of the underworld on the nite of the first full moon of the Spring Equinox.  (Yes - the day that became Passover.)  A pig was sacrificed.   

 

Tell me, WHERE ( aside from Ellen White ), do you surmise that swine [ in the ancient Middle East ] carried or were in any way a contributing factor in an individual contracting Leprosy?

[Gustave]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 3:15 PM, Stan said:

actually I would like to do away with some of the Theologians..

 

New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

 

New International Version

"Later, knowing that everything had now been finished,^(B) and so that Scripture would be fulfilled,^(C) Jesus said, “I am thirsty. A jar of wine vinegar^(AP) was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. ³⁰ When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.”^(AQ) With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit".

 

Stan, either something VERY BIG just happened here, OR, if it's as you say - Jesus was affirming He was all washed up - poor little Jesus, "He" was finished.

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

I am no longer SDA and have not read EGW much for some 25 years.  One of the teachers I like is Rico Cortes of Wisdom in Torah.  He is quite a deep student of Ancient Middle Eastern history and always explains the historical context of things.  That's where I heard about the connection between swine and leprosy.  If EGW connected that dot, I didn't remember.   

NOTE:  I do NOT agree with Rico Cortes concerning the continuation of animal sacrifices or the Aaronic priesthood.  So please don't think I agree with Hebrew Roots teaching in all things. 

[8thdaypriest]

2 hours ago, Gustave said:

Tell me, WHERE ( aside from Ellen White ), do you surmise that swine [ in the ancient Middle East ] carried or were in any way a contributing factor in an individual contracting Leprosy?

I am no longer SDA, and have not read EGW much for some 25 years.  Most recently Rico Cortes of Wisdom in Torah mentioned the connection. 

NOTE:  Please do not think I accept all Hebrew Roots teachings.  I do not agree with them concerning the continuation of animal sacrifices or the Aaronic priesthood. 

[Gustave]

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I am no longer SDA and have not read EGW much for some 25 years.  One of the teachers I like is Rico Cortes of Wisdom in Torah.  He is quite a deep student of Ancient Middle Eastern history and always explains the historical context of things.  That's where I heard about the connection between swine and leprosy.  If EGW connected that dot, I didn't remember.   

NOTE:  I do NOT agree with Rico Cortes concerning the continuation of animal sacrifices or the Aaronic priesthood.  So please don't think I agree with Hebrew Roots teaching in all things. 

She ( Ellen ) did connect those dots & they've been being connected [ primarily ] by her devotees ever since.

I've also heard a similar charge from Muslims and WWCOG 7th day.

There isn't even anecdotal evidence linking pigs ( in anyway ) as contributing to leprosy. It's just one of those things that continues to be asserted within certain circles.

Thanks for the clarification 8thday.

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

6 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Its gotta be because you are not yelling it out loud enough

..if only that would work!

Actually I only have brought it up a few times,tentatively,  while dining among friends.

I wouldn't dare to bring it with people in a church setting with people I only see just at church.

...

And I know who I am dealing with. I used to think that way too.

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Well, all joking aside, I dont think you have a yelling bone in your entire body. There are situations where the Lord can best use this kind of person! He will never give up on you!

Well ... I can be very loud n proud  ..but I am learning to go to God for soothing from HIM ..that only HE can provide. Praise GOD!

[CoAspen]

....is there a bard in the scene....

[Dr. Shane]

The Council of Jerusalem is summed up in Acts 15:28, 29. 

 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.  Farewell.

 

No mention of abstaining from unclean meats.  Yet we know that the gentile world ate unclean animals.

The history on this is that the founders of the Adventist church did not settle the matter.  It did not appear in our fundamental beliefs until after the death of Ellen White.  The whole thrust of not eating unclean meats is in regard to health.  It is part of the health message.  That is how it is framed in the baptismal vows and in our book Seventh-day Adventists believe.  Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that eating unclean meats will make a person ceremonially unclean.  Abstaining from unclean meat is part of our health message.  Understanding that, if given the option to eat some beans with lard in them or eat a side order of french fries, which would be the healthier choice?  The beans would be.  The fat content in the beans would be far less and the carbohydrates would be far superior to what is in the french fries.

[GayatfootofCross]

On 7/18/2017 at 7:05 PM, Shane said:

The Council of Jerusalem is summed up in Acts 15:28, 29. 

 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.  Farewell.

 

No mention of abstaining from unclean meats.  Yet we know that the gentile world ate unclean animals.

The history on this is that the founders of the Adventist church did not settle the matter.  It did not appear in our fundamental beliefs until after the death of Ellen White.  The whole thrust of not eating unclean meats is in regard to health.  It is part of the health message.  That is how it is framed in the baptismal vows and in our book Seventh-day Adventists believe.  Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that eating unclean meats will make a person ceremonially unclean.  Abstaining from unclean meat is part of our health message.  Understanding that, if given the option to eat some beans with lard in them or eat a side order of french fries, which would be the healthier choice?  The beans would be.  The fat content in the beans would be far less and the carbohydrates would be far superior to what is in the french fries.

 

hey hey now

u know these kind of things dont fly

[get that ridiculous scripture out about a mouse and a pig in Isaiah to prove our church is right]

Moses trumps Jesus in our church!

....

we all cherry pick and u crossed the line if you dont cherry pick what i cherry pick.

Salvation is questioned!

 

..................................

Waiting for the  People of the book to be  laid to the ashes.

And the People of the PERSON to arise!

only then will your thoughts be made large

not before, Shane!

.... meanwhile to look like  I stay away from lard for merit in all other eyes to be in good standing so I will look like I'm on the straight and narrow.  

It is all about the cup looking clean on the outside.

or you will be a missionary project or a reprobate !

Neither is Jesus' mindset toward us.

Thank God!

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

54 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

And why is that so important, IF it were true?

Hello! Let me step in for a long moment.

I think its a great discussion as you can see from all the  posts here.

Simply cause of all the things our church seem to point to as  salvational in theology and culture  but really based on Tradition and Pet Peeves and away to Feel Holier!

I guess you can get that from all my posts .

 

All these Lies!

It is an adventist mmiindset set in stone.

It has nothing to do with the What the Scriptures actually saying and the principles pointed to.

...............................................................................................................................................

 

For some reason when I read your message .."And why is that so important, IF it were true?"-The Wanderer

 

I had a flashback at church.

Nothing to do with u of course. Or even the topic. Or maybe it does?

It is the tone in my head that recalled that nice Sabbath afternoon.

I was sitting among the oldest and kindest ladies at my church i see often enough ..finally  IT WAS NICE TO BE FINALLY SITTING TOGETHER.

Well one of them brought up of where she went out to eat one evening.

Some popular BBQ Beef n Pork chain (?) I see on TV ads in the past.

Up here there is not a vast selection of nice restaurants.

I thinking and knowing she is a Vegie/Kosher asked what did she eat.

Corn,Mac Cheese,Biscuits etc.

I went on a lil joke about being seen eating pork in that restaurant or whatever and we all laughed.

Hey I was cute! When I am cute I'm real cute. I know it don't happen enough   

I wrapped up the topic saying i would like to eat there.

Then the other lady (who never been there) asked me .."Why would u eat there"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Shane]

On 7/19/2017 at 10:24 PM, The Wanderer said:

And why is that so important, IF it were true?

The relevance is that if it was a clear black and white issue like the Sabbath or State of the Dead, it would have been agreed upon early on during the formation of the church.

 

Now, the Scripture that says the lost will be eating the swine and the mouse does not contradict what I have been saying here.  Those that are eating the swine and the mouse have no regard for the health message.  They are not concerned about treating their body as the temple of God.  They will also be doing all types of other immoral behavior.

What I am talking about is the issue of straining the gnat out or the water.  If eating pork made us ceremonially unclean, we would want to go to great lengths to avoid it.  However if we avoid it due to the health concerns, than it becomes trivial if there is lard in my beans or pig collagen in my Jell-O.