Good-bye, Sinful Nature?

[David Koot]

On another thread, pertaining to the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's, someone suggested that those who are ready to meet Jesus will have overcome every sinful propensity, and will partake of the character of Christ so that those sinful propensities are actually gone from the life. Is that true? Or, will believers struggle with sinful propensities until the day Jesus returns?

David Koot

[Nicodema]

I think the question itself might be framed incorrectly? Without defining clearly the term "sinful propensities" it sets up a dichotomy between these being "gone" versus these being struggled with. I think first we should make a clear definition of the term itself ("sinful propensities"), so we are all "on the same page" so to speak about exactly what we mean by that term. And then we should clearly define ALL the possible scenarios (not just the two ends of a continuum) before exploring further.

Short answer, with the above as a caveat on potential communication problems: I see nothing in scripture to indicate that we will be relieved of our inherited flesh prior to the "twinkling of an eye" in which we are changed. As I understand it, the sinful nature is in this flesh, that is, woven into our mortal biological construction somehow, and isn't going anywhere until that biological construction is remade by the Lord when He comes. I would be inclined to conclude, therefore, that this means at any point before that distinct, defining moment, we are capable of being tempted and of having to strive against the flesh and its sin-nature.

Further exploration of this topic will probably of necessity lead into the notion of the "sealing", which might want its own thread as well.

[David Koot]

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Nicodema said:

I think the question itself

might

be framed incorrectly? Without defining clearly the term "sinful propensities" it sets up a dichotomy between these being "gone" versus these being struggled with. I think first we should make a clear definition of the term itself ("sinful propensities"), so we are all "on the same page" so to speak about exactly what we mean by that term. And then we should clearly define ALL the possible scenarios (not just the two ends of a continuum) before exploring further.

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Those are very good points, Nico. What are 'sinful propensities'? I guess I would say that sinful propensities are the tendencies to do wrong. I wouldn't call it a level playing field. We have sinful tendencies which we struggle with. In my case, I have experienced progress in the Christian life, but the sinful tendencies are still there, and must be guarded against. They are ready to pop up at unexpected times! I cannot say that I have arrived.

When I was reading some posts on the thread which dealt with the SDA doctrine of God the Son, I ran across the idea expressed, that through the transforming power of the gospel, and our own cooperative work with Christ, the sinful propensities will be gone, and we will no longer have them. I took that to mean that we would no longer have to struggle with them--the sinful tendencies. This was a different concept than I was familiar with. Nor has that been my experience yet, at age 55. i STILL struggle with sinful tendencies. There are times when I feel like I have gotten over some things, but then, surprise! There they are again! Can be a bit discouraging.

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Short answer, with the above as a caveat on potential communication problems: I see nothing in scripture to indicate that we will be relieved of our inherited flesh prior to the "twinkling of an eye" in which we are changed. As I understand it, the sinful nature is in this flesh, that is, woven into our mortal biological construction somehow, and isn't going anywhere until that biological construction is remade by the Lord when He comes. I would be inclined to conclude, therefore, that this means at any point before that distinct, defining moment, we are capable of being tempted and of having to strive against the flesh and its sin-nature.

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That has been my understanding, too. I would be interested in seeing a presentation in support of the other position, though. Is there something I have missed out on? And, how, indeed, does this question pertain to the 'sealing'?

David Koot

[Gerr]

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David Koot said:

On another thread, pertaining to the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's, someone suggested that those who are ready to meet Jesus will have overcome every sinful propensity, and will partake of the character of Christ so that those sinful propensities are actually gone from the life. Is that true? Or, will believers struggle with sinful propensities until the day Jesus returns?

David Koot

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[:"blue"]Sinful propensities/tendencies/desires will remain as long as we are in this mortal body, and will continue to struggle with them, but as Rom 6 points, out, it does not reign. The longer an addict can postpone satisfying his/her cravings, the easier it becomes to say no to the addiction. [/]

Gerry

[LifeHiscost]

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David Koot said:

And, how, indeed, does this question pertain to the 'sealing'?

David Koot

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Drawing from the same source from which I believe you got your understanding of the "sealing', I recall a statement that said that the sealing from God was a "certain settling in to the truth".

PROPENSITY: an often intense natural inclination or preference. [Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary]

With that to start with as the correct English definition, there are sometimes, not cherished, intense inclinations

to do what is convicted to be wrong for me. However, my preference, at this time in personal Christian growth is always to do what our Father would have me to do, even if sometimes I don't know what that is, or I do not make effort to resist the inclination.

This , I suggest, makes me just as guilty as a person without conscience committing the worst of sins,

[:"red"] "For whosoever keeps the Law [as a] whole but stumbles and offends in one [single instance] has become guilty of [breaking] all of it. " [/] James 2:10 AMP

However, as a believer in Christ, I have the promise the unbeliever does not have.

[:"red"] "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" [/] 1 John 2:1 KJV

Having the Advocate and asking for His help, sets me right again with my Father, through Jesus shed blood. The cleansing blood does not stop flowing or cleansing, when we sin.

[:"red"] "If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. " [/] 1 John 1:9 AMP

The question might be asked, 'Will we always be able to depend on these promises when we fail so miserably'. I would suggest that as long as we hear that still small voice that says,

[:"red"] "[Although all have sinned] be not wicked overmuch or willfully, neither be foolish--why should you die before your time?

It is good that you should take hold of this and from that withdraw not your hand; for he who [reverently] fears and worships God will come forth from them all." [/]

Eccl 7:17,18 AMP

I would suggest that as long as a person searches out the voice of God, and pays attention when he speaks, especially through His written Word, he/she will be led down a pathway that will deliver his/her soul from hell.

[:"red"] "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." [/] John 14:6 NASB

[:"red"] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." [/] John 6:40 NASB

Blessings!!

[David Koot]

I have been reading Norman's daily posts on the Faith That Works by Love thread. A number of them seem to suggest that there is a transformation in our nature, that we become sanctified, purified. To what extent does that take place? Is it something we can count on? What about Solomon's warning that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked? Does the gospel change the heart, so that a person can trust what is in his or her heart? On the other hand, what is the danger of being self-deceived, as one thinks that s/he has 'arrived,' when in reality, those sinful tendencies are still there to contend with?

David Koot

[Robert]

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David Koot said:

A number of them seem to suggest that there is a transformation in our nature, that we become sanctified, purified.

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Our natures remain 100% sinful till the day we die. What grows is the mind/character. The flesh isn't redeemable!

Rob

[David Koot]

I would like to share on this thread, the post which raised questions about this issue for me, from a different thread:

"You are quite right in saying Jesus Christ did not have a propensity, or tendency, to sin. But then neither do we have to continue having the propensity to sin. Through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, we also may overcome sin just as Jesus overcame sin. There have been many people who have overcome sin and no longer lived with the propensity to sin: Enoch, Elijah, Moses, John the Baptist, Peter, John the Beloved, etc. Those who are sealed with the seal of God and live through the time of trouble to see Jesus return will also overcome sin as Jesus did and no longer have the propensity to sin but will be so settled into the truth that they, like Jesus, can't be moved.

Christ didn't need to be "born again," or "born from above," as all other humans need to be in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). Before he emerged from his mother's womb, Christ was already under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He was Holy from the start. Jesus' propensity, or tendency, was to obey His Father. That was Jesus' "bent."

On the other hand, before we are born again, our tendency is to disobey or rebel against God. We gain the tendency, or propensity, to obey God when we experience the second birth through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did come as the second Adam. That is, Jesus came to replace Adam as the federal head of humanity, the Representative Man-- showing what God's ideal for mankind is and showing what man is capable of becoming.

However, none of the above necessarily means that Jesus did not have a fallen nature. After all, Enoch had a sinful nature, yet he overcame sin and got to the point where he no longer had the propensity to sin. God has provided the way for us to have the same experience today."

As I read this, it got me to thinking. It is not what I pesonally have believed, in the past. But, surely it is worth examining. How about it? Any thoughts about the above quote?

David Koot

[Nicodema]

Some context would be helpful here. Sometimes context changes how we perceive what we are reading. Could you please point us to the original thread where this post appears?

[David Koot]

Yes, Nico, it is in the 'Bible and Theology' Section of the Forum, under the heading, "28 Fundamental Beliefs . . ." The thread is entitled, "No. 4: The Son."

[Nicodema]

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David Koot said:

I guess I would say that sinful propensities are the tendencies to do wrong. I wouldn't call it a level playing field. We have sinful tendencies which we struggle with. In my case, I have experienced progress in the Christian life, but the sinful tendencies are still there, and must be guarded against. They are ready to pop up at unexpected times! I cannot say that I have arrived.

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I guess I basically agree with this definition. But I wonder, when we say "progress" what we really mean. I know what it's supposed to mean ... I just question whether it actually exists or is an illusion. Jesus' presentation of temporality seems to be more of a "day by day" or an "in the moment" thing than a linear thing, if you get what I mean? Moses walked with God and did all sorts of wonderous things, yet there at the end, he strikes the rock -- falls to one of those "sinful propensities" (or a cluster thereof) as if all that time spent in "progress" simply never existed -- or at the very least, had no bearing upon that present moment.

I never cease to be amazed at the cyclical and repetitive nature of existence, how the principles of resurrection or even the annual recurrence of spring just manifest in the strangest places. I wonder how many times I will be raised and slaughtered before my journey is over. I feel a profound awakening inside my soul I have not felt since My utter destruction in 1998, but what does it mean? Is it a chimera that will fade when I wake tomorrow? Is it the beginning of something that will grow and blossom -- and what direction will that take, if so? What concerns me is how I got here again ... to a place that isn't supposed to exist anymore. And still I need to hear from God Most High in this place ... still the same questions are here that are here whenever I surface here, awaken here, whether it is for a moment, or for a month, or for another chunk of life ... what do I do with these things? Why does this keep happening and what does it mean that it does not terrify me as much as it should?

Ah, but I'm off talking to myself again. Sorry ... let me return to talking to you.

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When I was reading some posts on the thread which dealt with the SDA doctrine of God the Son, I ran across the idea expressed, that through the transforming power of the gospel, and our own cooperative work with Christ, the sinful propensities will be gone, and we will no longer have them. I took that to mean that we would no longer have to struggle with them--the sinful tendencies.

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Wow, that would be something, wouldn't it? This is why I mentioned that this discussion could touch upon the sealing, because this seems to be the kind of idea expressed in our concepts of the end-time Sealing: that there is a certain "settling into" the Truth, something Ellen called a "repentance not to be repented of" -- and I think we all tend to envision that as the absence of this struggle which plagues us so.

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This was a different concept than I was familiar with. Nor has that been my experience yet, at age 55. i STILL struggle with sinful tendencies. There are times when I feel like I have gotten over some things, but then, surprise! There they are again! Can be a bit discouraging.

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I totally know what you're talking about, in far more ways than would be kosher or wise to detail here.

[David Koot]

Indeed, the word 'progress' could raise some questions. How many times, have I felt that I was making 'progress' in some areas, only to slip and fall still again! A very discouraging and humbling experience. What, indeed, is the solution?

I was startled to read the post which I quoted above. It expressed concepts which I had not considered, in the past. What if it is true? Yet, I see a potential danger. What if a person feels that s/he has 'arrived,' has been freed of some sinful propensity, and thereby may be self-deceived? At what point does the heart stop being 'deceitful above all things, and desparately wicked?'

I would be very interested in seeing if there is solid Scriptural support for this idea. I would also be very interested in reading the views of a Seminary-level theologian. This seems like a very important question, on a practical level.

David Koot

[Pockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

David Koot said:

"After all, Enoch had a sinful nature, yet he overcame sin and got to the point where he no longer had the propensity to sin. God has provided the way for us to have the same experience today."

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Did the Bible or even a source like Patriarchs and Prophets say that Enoch no longer had the propensity to sin? I think it only says he walked with God. I agree with the above posts that our current bodies = bad, and our new glorified bodies in heaven = good, with no more sinful cravings. However, Jesus can save us from our sins.

[LifeHiscost]

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David Koot said:

God has provided the way for us to have the same experience today."

Any thoughts about the above quote?

David Koot

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It is my belief our Father asks nothing of His children He will not give the power to accomplish, therefore it would seem this promise is capable of being fulfilled, all in God's timetable as He designs it for each individual.

[:"red"] "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." [/] Matthew 5:48 KJV

However it seems important to note that Jesus was not without struggle in His own life in living without sin.

[:"red"] "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered..." [/] Hebrews 5:8 KJV

[:"red"] "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" [/] Hebrews 4:15 KJV

[:"red"] "But I do nothing without consulting the Father. I judge as I am told. And my judgment is absolutely just, because it is according to the will of God who sent me; it is not merely my own. " [/] John 5:30 NLT

It would appear we would find less unsolved problems in our lives were we always following the same pattern in decision making.

Keep looking up!!

[Nicodema]

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David Koot said:

Indeed, the word 'progress' could raise some questions. How many times, have I felt that I was making 'progress' in some areas, only to slip and fall still again! A very discouraging and humbling experience. What, indeed, is the solution?

I was startled to read the post which I quoted above. It expressed concepts which I had not considered, in the past. What if it is true?

Yet, I see a potential danger. What if a person feels that s/he has 'arrived,' has been freed of some sinful propensity, and thereby may be self-deceived?

At what point does the heart stop being 'deceitful above all things, and desparately wicked?'

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Dave I don't have the answer but I want to affirm the validity and importance of the question. It is good that you are asking this. This danger is very "real and present" and the sad thing about it is, a person can stumble into that wholly innocently as it were, never suspecting a thing, believing themselves to be 100% right in their character or motives or heart or whatever, because they have "accepted by faith" that God has changed them, or whatever the line of thought might be in their minds. I know because this was my earliest experience after I first gave my life to the Lord. While I didn't think I was perfect or sinless or something -- in fact I had a very keen awareness of some real character flaws and problems with my personality -- there were some glaring things I did not see about myself AT ALL. God had to hand me over to Satan so I could learn how very real these things were, which I was certain could not and did not exist in me.

UNFORTUNATELY for me, and thus for our discussion here, That (the above which I just told) is just Story Version #1.

There is Story Version #2 ...

Story Version #2 has it that I was not deceived concerning these things, because they were matters of heart -- motives, intentions, etc. -- which I saw clearly were not motivating me. Now granted, there may have been some truth to what others charged me with IN THE SENSE OF my "coming across" that way even though the attitudes they charged me with were nothing I was conscious of possessing AT ALL. But the more they "persecuted" me and laid these accusations upon me -- WHILE AT THE SAME TIME I was busy wrestling with the REAL problems I was having and KNEW I had with regard to my character -- the deeper became the SATANIC ATTACK behind it until I was overwhelmed with the negative (and erroneous) messages about myself and internalized their poison. This became the catalyst and foundation for Satan to first destroy my faith and then enter my life in so marked and direct a fashion that he made me into his slave.

That's Story Version #2.

So which was it?

Your guess is as good as mine. That was 1982-83 and I STILL don't know.

You asked when does the heart stop being deceitful above all things, etc., or whether it ever does ... I ask how is such a thing even to be ascertained when all we have to measure it against, "objectively" speaking, besides the word of God (which is a "trick" in itself seeing as we cannot SEPARATE ourselves from our own hearts and minds in taking IN the Word of God!) -- is -- THE EQUALLY "DECEITFUL AND DESPERATELY WICKED" HEARTS OF OTHERS!!!!! Do you get what I'm saying here? The hearts of others are JUST as deceitful and wicked -- and when it comes to trying to objectively assess ourselves, as harsh as this sounds, we have to take into account that other people, because of whatever "buttons" we might have pushed in THEM, have an even GREATER vested interest in getting us to believe something "nasty and untrue" about ourselves as "the truth" than our own "objective" search for "the awful truth" about ourselves carries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In other words, in a very real sense, their input is often less trustworthy than our own in this respect, unless we're talking about the input of someone very close who knows us very well and whose love toward us is beyond question or doubt. And even then, we start to wonder whether they are not biasing their input in our favor ...

Am I making any sense here?

Anyway, I do want to affirm the validity and importance of your question, even though I obviously don't have the answer.

[Nicodema]

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David Koot said:

Yes, Nico, it is in the 'Bible and Theology' Section of the Forum, under the heading, "28 Fundamental Beliefs . . ." The thread is entitled, "No. 4: The Son."

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Hrmmmm ... I thought as much (with regard to the origin of the quote).

By the way -- I wanted to say I'm sorry for my part in that stupid fight we had on those other 2 threads.

Be blessed.

Nico

[Nicodema]

******* - User - Feeling right at home here - 03/27/06 - 12:33 PM - Making a new reply - Re: Good-bye, Sinful Nature?

Dang, that's gotta be one heckuva reply ... considering they've been at it for some 2 hours now and it has yet to show up ... LOL.

[David Koot]

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Nicodema said:

By the way -- I wanted to say I'm sorry for my part in that stupid fight we had on those other 2 threads.

Be blessed.

Nico

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Thank-you, Nico. I felt so-o-o bad about that whole fiasco. I'm so sorry to have given you offense. As a result of what happened, I took a serious and prayerful look at how I came across, and, in addition, am reevaluating my own posting style in general.

Blessings on you too!

Dave

[David Koot]

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Nicodema said:

Your guess is as good as mine. That was 1982-83 and I STILL don't know.

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Based on Scripture, my guess is story # 2, for what it's worth.

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Am I making any sense here?

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Yes you are. As I reflect on your very significant post, what comes to mind is the promises of God and one particular assurance found in the book of Romans, ch. 8:

"Ro 8:31 ¶ What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us."

As for the heart, yes, I believe it to be deceitful and desparately wicked, both mine, and others as well. I would not want to trust my heart to guide me, nor anyone else's either. I would want to look away from myself, look away from the maze of opinions of others, and look to the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy Word.

I still am confused by the various Bible passages which suggest that the heart is purified as a result of the gospel. (For example, Jesus' statements, James' statements, Paul's statements, for starters.) Yes, I do see areas of progress, but I still slip and fall. As for me reaching the point where I NATURALLY do what is right, I am skeptical, quite frankly. I believe that there will be battles to fight, struggles against evil tendencies, until Jesus comes back. But, I am willing to be persuaded, if I can see clear Scriptural evidence to the contrary. Is there any?

David Koot

[LifeHiscost]

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David Koot said:

Rom 8:32 shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

But, I am willing to be persuaded, if I can see clear Scriptural evidence to the contrary. Is there any?

David Koot

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David, you've already answered your subsequent question, "Is there any?"(evidence). Also I would like to suggest those following.

[:"red"] "I am the LORD, the God of all the peoples of the world. Is anything too hard for me? " [/]

Jer 32:27 NLT

I recognize that as a rhetorical question.

[:"red"] "Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]-- " [/] Ephesians 3:20 AMP

Sometimes because we are unable to see the how He might do what we desire, we equate that as indicating He has no viable options for what we wish to happen. We may then put Him into the box with our doubts instead of continueing to believe He is only limited to His righteous character.

[:"red"] "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not." [/] Galatians 6:9 KJV

[:"red"] "For I can do everything with the help of Christ who gives me the strength I need." [/] Phil 4:13

NLT

I'm suggesting that last promise is referring to anything He asks of us.

Blessings!!

[Nicodema]

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David Koot said:

Thank-you, Nico. I felt so-o-o bad about that whole fiasco. I'm so sorry to have given you offense. As a result of what happened, I took a serious and prayerful look at how I came across, and, in addition, am reevaluating my own posting style in general.

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Aw %^ ... I think I'm gonna cry ...

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David Koot said:

Based on Scripture, my guess is story # 2, for what it's worth.

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OK now I really AM gonna cry. []http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/cry.gif[/]

[Nicodema]

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As for the heart, yes, I believe it to be deceitful and desparately wicked, both mine, and others as well. I would not want to trust my heart to guide me, nor anyone else's either. I would want to look away from myself, look away from the maze of opinions of others, and look to the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy Word.

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But HOW? How can that be done, when we cannot escape ourselves in the process of trying to understand that Word? And when the only alternative to the box of ourselves is the box of someone else offered for an alternate view? Each being a box from a deceitful heart? Or even at best, a mind that cannot step outside itself?

[David Koot]

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Nicodema said:

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But HOW? How can that be done, when we cannot escape ourselves in the process of trying to understand that Word? And when the only alternative to the box of ourselves is the box of someone else offered for an alternate view? Each being a box from a deceitful heart? Or even at best, a mind that cannot step outside itself?

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I speak here for myself, from my experience. I make a conscious decision to look to Jesus and trust in His guidance. I know by faith, that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Secondly, I know that He knows exactly how to get through to me. I know that I can trust Him. I know that He is able to do whatever needs to be done.

When it comes to the Bible, I have faith in the promise of God. Jesus promised protection and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. When I prepare to open the Word, I submit my will to God's will, and I claim the promise which He has given. By faith, I have confidence that God will come through for me. It is a conscious, moment-by-moment decision to keep the thoughts, the decision-making process, focused on the Lord Jesus Christ, and waiting upon Him. At the right time, He will make things clear. That is how I personally deal with some of these issues.

So, no, I don't believe the answer is to trust in oneself, nor in others. I have found that as I exercise faith, by a conscious, prayerful effort, it grows stronger. Thus, I see the truth of the Bible verse, "This is the victory that overcometh the world: our faith."

Dave

[David Koot]

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David Koot said:

Based on Scripture, my guess is story # 2, for what it's worth.

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I say that with a degree of certainty, because I am sure, based on Scripture, that God did not hand you over to Satan for you to learn things about yourself. Paul's reference to someone who he had 'handed over to Satan,' had to do with someone who was knowingly engaging in immoral, licentious conduct and was justifying it.

From your own statement, you were not doing that. You were wanting to do right, and believed you were. God would never hand someone over to Satan under those circumstances. Even the expression, 'hand over to Satan,' can be confusing. When Paul spoke of it, he was speaking of the result of the person's own choice, rather than something which either Paul or God had decided to do.

I recall the words of an old hymn, "How Firm a Foundation":

"The soul that on Jesus hath leaned for repose,

I will not, I will not desert to His foes;

That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,

I'll never, no never, no never forsake!"

Dave

[LifeHiscost]

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David Koot said:

Even the expression, 'hand over to Satan,' can be

confusing.

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[:"red"] "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." [/] 1 Cor 5:5 NASB

Having looked in a number of different translations I have seen no ambiguity. Remember the experience of the Israelites

when it was determined the Assyrians were needed for discipline, this from a godless, extremely cruel nation?

Having read many posts by Nico, I agree, she does not fit into the same circumstance as those mentioned above. One caught by deceit of the devil, who has not progressed to purposeful rebellion against the God of all peace, at the call of Him Who wishes none to perish, need only return at that call to receive the promises He holds forth.

The key is found in the first line of your quote below.

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"The soul that on Jesus hath leaned for repose,

I will not, I will not desert to His foes;

That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,

I'll never, no never, no never forsake!"

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[:"red"] "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." [/] Revelation 22:17 KJV