The three 'new light 'views and the dangers of.

[Stan]

 

[Stan]

1 2520 movement

2 The Jewish feasts

3 The anti trinity movement

[8thdaypriest]

The video posted clearly labels those who do not believe that the Holy Spirit is "the third person of the godhead", as "wolves among sheep".  Wohlberg labels such people as enemies of God's true church, because they "cause division".   Wow!!  I can't decide whether to offer a comment, or just to leave.

Guess I will comment. 

Wohlberg clearly believes that SDAdventism is THE true church, which excludes all others.  Hmmmmm. 

What about the Church of God 7th Day?  They honor the 7th day Sabbath, and the other 9 Commandments.  They believe Christ will return to execute judgment. 

Stan,

Did you post this video because you wanted our comments,

or is this you telling those of us who honor "the LORD's Feasts", and worship only God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ to stay off AdventiStan?  That doesn't seem like you.

I can't understand why you posted this.

Rachel

PS:  I do NOT preach to Adventists.  I have NEVER mentioned Ellen White on my website,  www.prophecyviewpoint.com.

[LifeHiscost]

Perhaps I misunderstood but Steve Wohlberg specifically said SDA's were called out as the last day (remnant) church that were/are to preach the three angels' messages. Does the WWChurch of God fit that criteria?

God is Love!~Jesus save!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'll comment on two things:

1) personally, I find none of the three issues Steve brings up (2520 movement, Jewish feasts, anti-trinity movement) is particularly compelling as "dangerous" to one's salvation... Satan is going to be working on more subtle ways to bring people to *his* side.  Yes, those "movements" are ways to take the focus off of spreading the Third Angel's Message, but no more so than the controversy over women's ordination, gay issues in the church, or gossipy church members.

2) did anyone else feel like Steve Wohlberg was speaking from the fires of hell, with that creepy background?  I dislike the use of theatrics to evoke panicky and/or emotional responses to videos such as the one listed in the OP.  

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel (8th Day Priest) holds to some theological views that are outside of mainline Adventism.   She is well grounded in her views and well able to defend them against those who differ with her.

Club Adventist, as it was once called does not generally exclude people simply because they differ with main-line SDA belief.  People who are excluded from participation here are generally excluded based upon how they relate to   others and/or how they post.

Rachel has conducted herself well within the guidelines that Club Adventist has.  I do not expect her to change the   way that she posts and/or relates to people here.  And, I do not expect her to be excluded from our fellowship.

From my perspective, while I do disagree with Rachel, on some major points, I welcome her here.

 

[8thdaypriest]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Without comment on the rest of it, not naming EGW does not mean that one doesnt "preach to Adventists."  A website link in the signature, and a couple of other things gives it away pretty quick.

My website is averaging 9000+ visitors per month, from many nations (187 so far this year).  I have not taken a survey to see how many are SDA. 

Wohlberg seems only concerned that  "other" messages are weakening the primary message of the official (chosen & only true)  SDA church.  I have 45+ studies on my website, covering many different topics.  Some agree with SDA  doctrinal teaching.  Some do not. 

When Wholberg quotes Revelation to say "the hour of His judgment is come" - he means 1844 and the pre-advent investigative judgment has begun.  He did not explain that in his video.  More and more SDAs are rejecting the idea that Christ needs to "investigate" anything.  Jesus knows our heart and mind - from moment to moment.  He said, "I know my sheep".  IMO, the whole 1844 thing is NOT a salvational issue. 

Hmmm.  Maybe I SHOULD do a study for my website, just for SDAs, explaining why I do NOT believe that an "investigative judgment" began in 1844, and that 1844 was NOT the end of the 2300 evening/mornings.    I will put that on my list. 

 I totally agree with Pam, that the Hellish fire background is off-putting and annoying.  It's as if he is saying those who disagree with SDA teaching will go straight to that fire. 

His message that the SDA Church is THE only true church through which God will give a last day message, also comes across as very arrogant.  His video message is more likely to cause folks to examine the "other" teachings, just to see what all the fuss is about.  His video may actually have the opposite effect, from what he intended. 

His message is also likely to CAUSE the "true blue" SDA folks to reject and ostracize those with any "other" ideas.  IF "new light" did come, they would be armored against it.  

[Stan]

@8thdaypriest my primary post on this was about the 2520 days.

[8thdaypriest]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

@8thdaypriest my primary post on this was about the 2520 days.

Could you explain in more detail, exactly what the 2520 teaching IS?  I'm not clear on it myself. 

[8thdaypriest]

16 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

Perhaps I misunderstood but Steve Wohlberg specifically said SDA's were called out as the last day (remnant) church that were/are to preach the three angels' messages. Does the WWChurch of God fit that criteria?

God is Love!~Jesus save!

From Wikipedia:

  After Herbert Armstrong's death in 1986, the subsequent Worldwide Church of God leadership introduced a series of major doctrinal changes starting in 1994, which substantially altered the fundamental beliefs and goals of the original WCG in the direction of historic Christian orthodoxy. A large segment of the membership wished to retain what they believe to be fundamental or first-century Christian teachings^, and consequently left WCG to start their own organizations. UCG was established in May 1995 and is the largest of these offshoot organizations.

United Church of God International hold many beliefs in common with SDAs.  They teach the Sabbath, soul sleep in death, annihilation of the wicked, the 10 Commands, baptism by immersion, tithe, clean and unclean diet, justification by faith as the gift of God.   They also teach commemoration of the Feasts, and are against celebrating Christmas, Easter, Halloween, or Valentines Day.  They teach the soon coming of Christ for judgment, resurrection/and deliverance of His saints.   They do not worship God as a Trinity, and do not worship 3 divine beings.

The Church of God 7th Day was founded back in the 1850, by Adventists who did not accept the prophetic gift of EGW.  So COG&D has been around a lot longer than Worldwide, or UCG.

Growing up SDA, I thought that Adventists and Jews were the only ones who kept the Sabbath.  Didn't find out til I was 35 about all the others. 

[8thdaypriest]

21 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Well; I wasnt intending to say you were really doing something "wrong," but you brought up the subject, and I commented on it. I do not want to veer off topic and start talking about a person rather than the topic at hand. But there is some "preaching to Adventists" happening in certain sectors of the forum. I stopped short of saying it was "wrong," I am just saying I can see it happening.

Thank you Wanderer. 

I am just curious to understand the 2520 teaching.  I know it is not SDA doctrine.  What is it.  Guess I will have to google it for myself.

[LifeHiscost]

Since Jesus is bringing His rewards back with Him when He returns the second time, I find it only logical that there would be a judgement  (investigative judgement) before He arrives. And to use a large number of followers as a positive indicator of correct theology, is a biblical evidence against correct discipling.

...there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14For many are called, but few are chosen.”...Matthew 22

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come....Matthew 24

In my opinion, we are living in that generation now.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[8thdaypriest]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

 

Wholberg details the main points here: http://www.weaffirmsda.com/the-2520-time-prophecy/steve-wohlberg-comments-on-the-2520-prophecy

I am a fast reader (most of the time) if I am familiar with the subject.  I do believe that the time periods commanded in the OT were prophetic, just like the Feast Days, and the ceremonies, but I do NOT see a 2520 year prophecy in Leviticus 26.  Certainly not one that ends at 1844. 

At least that is one "movement" I am NOT part of.  lol

I DO believe we should remember/commemorate the Lord's "appointed times", but I do NOT believe in sacrificing animal flesh/blood, at a Temple on the Mount at Jerusalem, or anywhere else. 

SDAs take great pride in teaching the significance of the Passover and the Day of Atonement as fulfilled prophecy, yet they do not commemorate those days at all.  That seems kinda sad - to me. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Investigative Judgment:  Is, as some believe, the focus on humans/Christians?  Or, is as some believe, the focus on God who is justifying to the Universe that Christ has redeemed a group of people who are safe to save and to be given an eternal life with God?

 

 

[B/W Photodude]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:22 PM, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

2) did anyone else feel like Steve Wohlberg was speaking from the fires of hell, with that creepy background?  I dislike the use of theatrics to evoke panicky and/or emotional responses to videos such as the one listed in the OP.  

An updated version has been posted to remove some of the "distracting background":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SdjOwIgZFc

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

13 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

An updated version has been posted to remove some of the "distracting background":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SdjOwIgZFc

 

it appears that the updated version merely removed some of the music....the hell fire is still there..

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

7 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

 

I am just curious to understand the 2520 teaching.  I know it is not SDA doctrine.  What is it.  Guess I will have to google it for myself.

I'm not very familiar with it, but supporters of it seem to believe (from http://www.weaffirmsda.com/):

1.     It is a divine prophecy embedded in Leviticus 26

2.     Leviticus 26:18 says that if Israel disobeyed God, He would punish her “seven times” for her sins. Those “seven times” should be interpreted as “seven years,” or 2520 days (based on a 360-day Hebrew calendar year), and then, based on the day-for-a-year principle, viewed as 2520 prophetic years.

3.     The 2520 began in 677 BC (William Miller’s view, when King Manasseh of Judah was taken to Babylon), and ended in 1844.

4.     The 2520 “prophecy” is a “second witness” to the 2300-year prophecy because both end in 1844. This “second witness” is necessary to maintain the integrity of the 2300-year prophecy because “out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established” (2 Cor. 13:1).

 

seems a bit of a reach to me...

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm, first I have ever heard of it, but then I was never into numbers. 

[JoeMo]

http://the2520.com/introduction.htm

I'm not supporting this (think it's off-base from what this website says).  I guess my early post on this was too caustic?  That's why it was deleted?

[JoeMo]

In an attempt to tone down my previous critique of the video (which was apparently deleted), let me just say that it is a fine example of attempted brain-washing of church members to discourage them from independent study by controlling their thoughts and activities.  While the Sabbath is very important to the lives of SDA's, I doubt if it will be the worldwide catalyst for the end of time.  I think it will be much broader than that - like "Who do you worship?  To whom will you give your unconditional love and loyalty - the gods of this world and the underworld; or the God of Heaven?

Another issue I had was his extensive use of EGW  in comparison to scripture.  That always makes me suspicious of a presenter's  very one-sided thesis.  I

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Investigative Judgment:  Is, as some believe, the focus on humans/Christians?  Or, is as some believe, the focus on God who is justifying the Universe that Christ has redeemed a group of people who are safe to save and to be given an eternal life with God?

 

 

I believe the scene which Daniel was shown in vision, was FUTURE from Daniel's day (Daniel 7:9-14).  I believe it is FUTURE still.  It has NOT YET taken place.  I do not believe it took place back in 1844.  I believe it will take place at the VERY END of this age, just hours before Christ comes from Heaven, to execute judgment on the earth. 

I believe this BECAUSE Christ has NOT YET been given DOMINION of earth.  If Christ had already received DOMINION, then Satan would be imprisoned, judgment would have been executed, and the redeemed would be free from Satan's torments. 

As to the subject of that judgment, I believe the Heavenly beings will judge Christ - not on His perfect life as a human, or the perfection of His death - but rather on whether He has succeeded to rehabilitate humans from sin.  Has He proved that His rehabilitation method works?  Is it safe to give eternal life to humans who barely began their walk with Him?

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel introduces an important issue in her post which I have quoted below:

In many ways, I believe that the heavenly beings and those that populate the Universe in effect have been witness to a trial in which God has, so to speak, been on trial.  The charge against God:  1)  God is unjust.  2)  If given freedom of choice, God's created beings would not chose to spend eternity with God.  3)  As sinners, God can not fairly bring humanity back into an eternal life and at the same time refuse eternal life to those heavenly beings who rebelled in heaven in ages past. 

With the death of Christ on the  cross, I believe that all of the heavenly beings and those who populate the Universe now agree that sinful humanity, along with those previously expelled form heaven, are justly separated from God and separated from eternal life.

As of the cross, one issue remained to be determined:  Is it true that sin has been removed from the lives of a group of sinful human beings    in a manner that it can be assured that none of these, if restored to eternal life, will ever rebel again?  In my thinking, this is what is determined in the so-called Investigative Judgement.  It is not that each sinful person is determined to be perfect.  Rather, it is that it is determined that the root nature of the rebellion had been removed from each of these saved persons and they may justly be returned to an eternal life with God and the other unfallen beings (persons) of the Universe.

It is God, in all fullness that is on trial in the so-called Investigative Judgment, not individuals humans.  Each saved person today can rest in the assurance that at the Cross salvation was provided and one is saved.

NOTE:  While I am stating it slightly differently from Rachel, there is substantial agreement between she and I.  Any disagreement between us is minor.

 

Quote

As to the subject of that judgment, I believe the Heavenly beings will judge Christ - not on His perfect life as a human, or the perfection of His death - but rather on whether He has succeeded to rehabilitate humans from sin.  Has He proved that His rehabilitation method works?  Is it safe to give eternal life to humans who barely began their walk with Him?

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Then we would still be alive. We are alive because He has dominion. IMHO

Satan enjoys tormenting God's creation, because he knows that God feels our pain.  I don't believe that Satan wants to kill us - just torment.  The problem for Satan is that he can't stop himself.  He is like one of those sociopaths who is disappointed when his victim dies.   And we are dying. 

When the last "witness" is either dead or imprisoned, that is when it's over.

Daniel 12:7  "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things will be finished".   ("These things" - meaning the last "time, times, and a part" of the Beast's rule.)  

If the BEAST is ruling over "every nation, kindred, tongue and people" on earth, then Christ is NOT.   For now - Christ has been made "head of all things to the church". 

The beginning of Christ's reign on earth, coincides with the 7th trumpet of Revelation (Rev. 11:15).

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I have not seen proof of this anywhere...

Look around!  The articles you yourself have posted about modern weaponry declare satan's rulership over the world.  The overwhelming poverty, corruption, disease, war, natural disasters, godlessness, etc. all over the world.  Christ might have dominion over the hearts of those that let Him in, but He certainly hasn't exerted that dominion over the earth yet.  Either that, or the fruits of His dominion are not at all what I expected.  Jesus might be King of kings over all things; but He has yet to subdue the one who currently holds the keys to this planet that he stole from Adam.  Kinda like Donald Trump is President of the United States; but he certainly doesn't have dominion over it. (Don't read anything political into that - it's just a strained analogy.)

[8thdaypriest]

13 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I have not seen proof of this anywhere...what i do see proof of is that God sets the boundaries even for Satan, and that puts Him in control. Human reasoning may not be able to "explain" this, but that doesnt mean it is not so. There are many things that God does, or declares, that we cannot understand or explain to others. A quick review of the great controversy as revealed in scripture will easily show what I have just said

1John 5:18-19  "The whole world lies under the sway of the Wicked One." 

I agree that Satan rules because God has ALLOWED him to do so - for now.  Therefore God is ultimately "in control". 

I also believe that God will not subvert or set aside His own LAW.  God's LAW says that He cannot protect or bless those who knowingly rebel against Him, and this extends to the children of the rebellious.   There are many examples of family members being destroyed right along with their rebellious parent. (The story of Achen would be one example.) 

If the LORD does not especially protect us, then we will be dominated by the Wicked One.  Satan and his angels are far stronger than mere humans.  THAT is what happened after Eve/Adam ate the forbidden fruit.  I don't believe there was anything wrong with the fruit itself.  Satan wanted the humans to disobey/rebel so their protection would be removed.  It's that simple.