The three 'new light 'views and the dangers of.

[Ron Amnsn]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:54 PM, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

2.     Leviticus 26:18 says that if Israel disobeyed God, He would punish her “seven times” for her sins. Those “seven times” should be interpreted as “seven years,” or 2520 days (based on a 360-day Hebrew calendar year), and then, based on the day-for-a-year principle, viewed as 2520 prophetic years.

Thanks, Pam.  I'd never heard of this.  I'm not arguing with you here-- just pointing out where the 2520 theory may not be accurate.

The Hebrews don't have a 360-day year. Perhaps it is based on the speculated 360-day year which some people derive from the story of Noah's flood, where the flood began on the 17th day of the second month (Gen 7:11) and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month after a period of 150 days (Gen 8:3-4).  From this 5-month period of 150 days they extrapolate that in Noah's pre-flood calendar all months had 30 days which would give a 12-month year 360 days.  Some people call this 360-day year a "prophetic" year. 

They could be right. After all, it would make sense that the 360 degrees in a circle would be derived from a 360-day year.  The 360-day year shows up in some ancient calendars.

However the calendar system that was used in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus could also give you 150 days in five months if the sky was overcast (as it may have been during the flood) and you were unable to sight the first sliver of the new moon for 5 months in a row.

Anyway, there isn't anywhere in the Bible that specifies that the day-for-a-year principle should be interpreted using 360-day years.  Also, the examples of the day-for-a-year principle that are found in the Bible always entail both a period of literal days and a matching period of literal years, with both time periods having a significant starting event and a significant ending event that was witnessed by many human witnesses using their natural senses (eyes, ears, etc.).  It sounds like the 2520 theory completely lacks a period of 2520 literal days and its period of 2520 prophetic years lacks an ending event that was witnessed by humans.  Nevertheless, it could possibly still be correct, even though it doesn't use the same day-for-a-year principle that is found in the Bible.

[Ron Amnsn]

In the video Steve Wohlberg makes some large leaps of logic that are not valid, but that will probably not be noticed by the intended audience.

The part of the video that concerns me the most is that the quotations from EGW were not tested by the Bible. Instead Steve Wohlberg seems to be urging people to filter the teachings of the Bible through the writings of EGW to see which Bible teachings are deserving of any attention within the church.  That isn't how the SDA church originally determined what would be considered truth within the church.  When I took the required "Spirit of Prophecy" class at an SDA college, it was made very clear that EGW's gift was never used to determine points of doctrine.  Points of doctrine were always determined by studying the Bible directly.  The video seems to be espousing a practice that is directly contrary to SDA Fundamental Belief #18. 

The EGW quotations that were used in the video and the method that Steve Wohlberg applied those quotations could be used to condemn as "divisive" anyone who actually applied the last part of Fundamental Belief #18 for any reason and found anything in the writings of EGW that didn't pass the test of Scripture. 

What's the point of having that last part of Fundamental Belief #18 if (a) nobody is taught how to actually test EGW's writings by the Bible, and (b) people who do apply the test required in Fundamental Belief #18 risk being seriously marginalized in the church, unless the results of such tests always find that EGW passes the test of Scripture?    Is it even honest to have that last part of Fundamental Belief #18 when it isn't even expected to be followed in the church and the necessary skills are not taught in the church?  Is the last part of #18 included in the Fundamental Beliefs just to keep SDA's out of the lists of cults?

The main message of the video seems to be that SDA's should find unity in EGW's writings, rather than in Jesus or the Scriptures -- an idea that probably would have received a stern rebuke from EGW while she was alive.

One mistake Steve Wohlberg made in the video was to equate "the commandments of God" with the "Ten Commandments".   When Jesus was asked "Which is the greatest commandment?" which of the Ten Commandments did Jesus choose?  None.  He chose a commandment from God's Law of Moses (Deut 6:4-5), and for the second-greatest commandment Jesus also chose a commandment from God's Law of Moses (Lev 19:18).  That's because the term "Ten Commandments" is a misnomer in English.  In both Hebrew and Greek they are called the "Ten Words" or "Ten Sayings" of the covenant.  God's instructions contain many more commandments than just ten.    So when Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12 describe God's remnant people as those "who keep the commandments of God" it's not limited to just the "Ten Commandments"-- it's talking about people who follow all of God's instructions, like Jesus our example and redeemer did.

Jesus kept the feasts that, according to EGW, Jesus himself created and commanded. And the Israelites (which we are grafted-in among) were commanded to observe those feasts throughout the generations of the Israelites, rather than until the death of Messiah.

The greatest commandment that Jesus chose from God's Law of Moses emphasizes the one-ness of God, which is different than the trinity doctrine that emphasizes the three-ness of God instead.

[8thdaypriest]

20 hours ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Thanks, Pam.  I'd never heard of this.  I'm not arguing with you here-- just pointing out where the 2520 theory may not be accurate.

The Hebrews don't have a 360-day year. Perhaps it is based on the speculated 360-day year which some people derive from the story of Noah's flood, where the flood began on the 17th day of the second month (Gen 7:11) and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month after a period of 150 days (Gen 8:3-4).  From this 5-month period of 150 days they extrapolate that in Noah's pre-flood calendar all months had 30 days which would give a 12-month year 360 days.  Some people call this 360-day year a "prophetic" year. 

They could be right. After all, it would make sense that the 360 degrees in a circle would be derived from a 360-day year.  The 360-day year shows up in some ancient calendars.

However the calendar system that was used in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus could also give you 150 days in five months if the sky was overcast (as it may have been during the flood) and you were unable to sight the first sliver of the new moon for 5 months in a row.

Anyway, there isn't anywhere in the Bible that specifies that the day-for-a-year principle should be interpreted using 360-day years.  Also, the examples of the day-for-a-year principle that are found in the Bible always entail both a period of literal days and a matching period of literal years, with both time periods having a significant starting event and a significant ending event that was witnessed by many human witnesses using their natural senses (eyes, ears, etc.).  It sounds like the 2520 theory completely lacks a period of 2520 literal days and its period of 2520 prophetic years lacks an ending event that was witnessed by humans.  Nevertheless, it could possibly still be correct, even though it doesn't use the same day-for-a-year principle that is found in the Bible.

The Mayan stone yearly star "calendar" has two large stones, and one very small stone.  The small stone is for the "unwanted days".  There are 5 1/4 "unwanted days". 

It seems the 5 1/4 days were added on to the yearly calendar in cultures the world over, starting just after the days of King Hezekiah (when the sundial moved backwards).  A near earth fly-by has been postulated.  The near earth object (on the outside of the earth, relative to the sun) pulled the earth farther from the sun, into an elliptical orbit.   My personal belief is that another near-earth fly-by (between the earth and the sun) will pull the earth towards the sun, restoring the 360 day orbit. 

This event will restore the 360 day year for the fulfillment of end time prophecy.  

Gravity produced by near-earth passage of such a massive space object would produce earthquakes around the world.  Another "sign". 

[Ron Amnsn]

22 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Since you are the one who posted this; I am presuming that you can give atleast several empirical examples as in book & pg no?? I would like to read for myself what she said, as well as surrounding paragraphs, both before and after the references.

Here are a few of the EGW quotations that show that EGW taught that Jesus was the creator of the Law of Moses and that the instructions of the Law of Moses were commanded by Jesus himself.  I don't think she mentions the feasts specifically, but the feasts are part of God's Law of Moses which EGW attributes specifically to Jesus himself.

"He who proclaimed the law from Sinai, and delivered to Moses the precepts of the ritual law, is the same that spoke the Sermon on the Mount. ... The teacher is the same in both dispensations"  {PP 373.2}

"The Old and the New Testament are inseparable, for both are the teachings of Christ."  {5BC 1094.1} {2SP 254.1}

"On the other hand, the strongest reason why Christians fail to influence the Jews to accept the teachings of Christ as the language of divine wisdom, is because, in bringing forth the treasures of his word, they treat with contempt the riches of the Old Testament, which are the earlier teachings of the Son of God, through Moses."  {2SP 255.1}

[Ron Amnsn]

One more:

"The Saviour said nothing to unsettle faith in the religion and institutions that had been given through Moses; for every ray of divine light that Israel's great leader communicated to his people was received from Christ."   {MB 47.1}

[LifeHiscost]

Part of my own confusion may come from these scripture addressed to the church of Laodacia.

⁸ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception [pseudo-intellectual babble], according to the tradition [and musings] of mere men, following the ^[f]elementary principles of this world, rather than following [the truth—the teachings of] Christ. ⁹ For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. ¹⁰ And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ], and He is the head over all rule and authority [of every angelic and earthly power]. ¹¹ In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but by the [spiritual] circumcision of Christ in the stripping off of the body of the flesh [the sinful carnal nature], ¹² having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God, [as displayed] when He raised Christ from the dead. ¹³ When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (worldliness, manner of life), God made you alive together with Christ, having [freely] forgiven us all our sins, ¹⁴ having canceled out the ^[g]certificate of debt consisting of ^[h]legal demands [which were in force] against us and which were hostile to us. And this certificate He has set aside and completely removed by nailing it to the cross. ¹⁵ When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities [those supernatural forces of evil operating against us], He made a public example of them [exhibiting them as captives in His triumphal procession], having triumphed over them through ^[i]the cross.

¹⁶ Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. ¹⁷ Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value; but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ. ¹⁸ Let no one defraud you of your prize [your freedom in Christ and your salvation] by insisting on mock humility and the worship of angels, going into detail about visions [he claims] he has seen [to justify his authority], puffed up [in conceit] by his unspiritual mind, ¹⁹ and not holding fast to the head [of the body, Jesus Christ], from whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows with the growth [that can come only] from God.

²⁰ If you have died with Christ to the ^[j]elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were still living in the world, do you submit to rules and regulations, such as, ²¹ “Do not handle [this], do not taste [that], do not [even] touch!”? ²² (these things all perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men. ²³ These practices indeed have the appearance [that popularly passes as that] of wisdom in self-made religion and mock humility and severe treatment of the body (asceticism), but are of no value against sinful indulgence [because they do not honor God]....Colossians 2

Then again we have these elements to live with.

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand....Matthew 13

11 How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” .....Matthew 16

33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”.....Mark 12

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.....Hebrews 5

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.....2 Peter 3

I personally have this promise to rely on.

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.....John 16

God is Love!~Jesus saves!       

 

 

 

[Ron Amnsn]

10 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

1) You stated that Jesus chose a commandment from “God’s Law of Moses.” This comment typifies a very common error made regarding “God’s law.” There is not even one text in the entire Bible that calls it “God’s Law of Moses.” Its God’s Law,” which God chose to relate to us through Moses, but Moses has no ownership of said “Law of God.” Evidence for what I am saying comes from Exodus 24:12, and many similar texts:

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

You're absolutely correct that the term I use, "God's Law of Moses" is not found in the Bible.  The Bible writers used the terms "the Law" and "God's Law" to mean all of God's instructions given to the Israelites through Moses.

However there is now some ambiguity when using the term "God's Law".  Among Christians it usually means either:

1. only the Ten Words of the Covenant that God spoke from Mt. Sinai and wrote with His finger on the stones that were and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.  This meaning came into popularity among Christians after the Bible was completed.  It was not used by the Bible writers because the Hebrew word "Torah" that is translated into English as "law" means "instructions" and God's instructions for the Covenant are encompassed by the following meaning.
2. all of God's instructions [Torah] given to the Israelites through Moses as recorded in the first five books of the Bible which are commonly referred to as the Books of Moses.

When Christians want to avoid confusion they often differentiate between the Ten Words and the rest of God's instructions by using "the Law of Moses" to refer to the rest of God's instructions that Moses delivered to the Israelites.  The "of Moses" part doesn't mean that those laws belong to Moses or originated in the mind of Moses-- it means that Moses was the messenger that delivered God's instructions.  Unfortunately some people, including some older life-long Adventists educated in SDA colleges, mistakenly think that "the Law of Moses" consists of man-made regulations created by Moses instead of by God.  So to avoid confusion, I use the term "God's Law of Moses" when I am talking about "the Law of Moses" which includes all of God's instructions given to the Israelites through Moses that are found in the first five books of the Bible.  That wouldn't be necessary if Christians viewed God's Law as a whole like the Bible writers did.

 

[Ron Amnsn]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

2) The “greatest” and the “second greatest” commandments are not something different or separate from ‘the ten commandments.” The “greatest” commandment was/is used by God in His Word to denote the first 4 of ‘the ten commandments,” as they devolve around our personal relationship with God. “ The second greatest” commandment is used in scripture to denote the last 6 commandments, which are the center-piece of our relationship/s to our fellow human beings.

The constructs that you refer to are man-made.  Yes, we can analyze the Ten Words and come up with categories among them that correspond to "loving God" and "loving our neighbor", but you won't find that denoted by any of the Bible writers.  The audience that Jesus and the Bible writers addressed knew the Old Testament and would have recognized right away where Jesus was quoting from.  There was no confusion in Hebrew or Greek about there only being ten "commandments".

[Ron Amnsn]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

3) Your post stated that “EGW said Jesus kept the feasts,” but where did she say this? (book and pg no?) And where does the Bible tell us that?

My post didn't actually claim that EGW said Jesus kept the feasts.  The claim that Jesus kept the feasts is my own statement summarized from what the Bible says about Jesus going up to Jerusalem for the feasts and from the Bible's clear declarations that Jesus did not sin.

I did claim that EGW said that Jesus created and commanded the feasts.  What I said was

Quote

"Jesus kept the feasts that, according to EGW, Jesus himself created and commanded."

I think the EGW quotations that I provided adequately show that EGW believed that all of the instructions given by God to the Israelites through Moses were the teachings of Jesus himself.  The feasts are part of those instructions.

[Ron Amnsn]

12 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

4) The comment re the Trinity here is not demonstrated by “the greatest commandment” at all. There is nothing in “the greatest commandment” “the second greatest commandment,” or the “ten commandments” that would deny the Trinity doctrine. While it might sound nice for anti-trinitarians to say it; it actually is not true. Plus, this topic is not about the Trinity

The gospel of Mark includes another account of the "the greatest commandment" question.   Let's look at that in Mark 12:28-31.

Quote

28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31 The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

The NASB uses ALL CAPS to show passages in the NT that are quoted directly from particular passages of the Old Testament.  In this case it is not quoted from the Ten Words.

Jesus included Deuteronomy 6:4 as part of the greatest commandment.  That verse emphasizes the one-ness of God, as I stated.  The inclusion of that verse also shows that Jesus was not summarizing the the first four of the Ten Words as the "greatest commandment" because the Ten Words of the covenant document do not include the concepts from Deut 6:4 -- instead Jesus chose to quote as the greatest commandment one of the many commandments from God's Law of Moses that was not part of the Ten Words.

A short study into the Greek words used for "commandment" might be useful to understand how the Bible uses the word "commandment".  It is used differently in the Greek NT and OT than the narrow meaning that it looks like you are wanting to use.

In the second post of this thread Stan listed the anti-trinitarian movement as one of the topics addressed in the video.  This thread has discussed the other two topics that Stan listed so it seems the third topic could be discussed as well.

[Stan]

Just so members Understand.  I am ok with people having beliefs that differ, what I do find irritating is when every conversation in Church switches over to thos e topics, and new or prospective members are swarmed by supportive of these 3 or 100 other hobby horses.

On judgment day, we will not be taking a test of 28 questions on a pass/fail basis.

 

I have some good friends who differ from me on various 'truth, we remain good friends.' 

[8thdaypriest]

I'm still a little groggy from an outpatient procedure this morning, but I'm gonna put a couple comments here.

Isaiah 66:22-23 are often quoted in SDA circles, because they put the Sabbath in the future New Earth.  What they do NOT like to admit, is that it puts the "New Moon" festival there too.

One cannot tell, from the reading, whether Isaiah is referring to the 7th Day weekly "sabbath" or the sabbaths of the Feasts.  There were 7 "rest" days, connected with the Feasts. 

Also worth noting, is that anciently Israel did NOT go up to Jerusalem, to worship the LORD on each weekly Sabbath.  They went up for the Feast sabbaths.  Isaiah 66:22-23 specifically says "all flesh shall come to worship before Me".  This suggests the sabbaths are those of the Feasts, rather than the weekly sabbaths. 

"For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD." (NKJ)

The New Moon was observed with blowing of trumpet and special feasting.   It will be observed in the Kingdom of Messiah, when "all flesh" will go up to worship the LORD at Jerusalem.

Psalm 81:3 "Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our solemn feast day." (NKJ)

Ezekiel 46:1 `Thus says the Lord GOD: "The gateway of the inner court that faces toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and on the day of the New Moon it shall be opened."(NKJ)

Obviously "the New Moon" was NOT a working day. 

Amos 8:5 Saying: "When will the New Moon be past, That we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, That we may trade wheat? Making the ephah small and the shekel large, Falsifying the scales by deceit, (NKJ)

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Concerning Colossians 2:16-17 

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat [offerings], or in drink [offerings], or in respect of an holy day, or of the New Moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (KJV)

Paul may be telling his readers that they no longer need to pay any attention whatsoever to any Sabbath, or Feast, or New Moon, or law concerning sacrifices - because it was ALL just a shadow of things to come"  OR

he may be telling his readers not to let anyone judge them concerning the WAY in which they commemorate the Feasts - with certain animals sacrifices, or with trips up to Jerusalem, or with offerings to a corrupt Roman appointed priestly power structure.  

NOTE:  It does seem odd, that believers would take 3000 years OFF, only to keep the Feasts once again in the earth made new. 

If the priesthood has been "changed" BACK to the original priesthood of the Firstborn, and our focus is on "heaven itself" - "the true Tabernacle", where Christ ministers on our behalf, then the WAY in which we commemorate the Feasts also changes. 

At my home we commemorate the Feasts at the times specified in the Hebrew calendar.  (I realize those dates are not perfect.)  Remembering what those Feasts symbolized - IS important. 

I've wondered for years, why the SDA church put so much emphasis on Yom Kippur/ Day of Atonement, but they do not set the day aside for special fasting and prayer. 

Just saying. . .

[8thdaypriest]

As for the topic of the Trinity discussion, may I just mention that I have completed an edit of my study on that topic at my website. 

http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/44e-Part 5 TR-HS.pdf

[8thdaypriest]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

As for the topic of the Trinity discussion, may I just mention that I have completed an edit of my study on that topic at my website. 

http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/44e-Part 5 TR-HS.pdf

And thanks to Ron, who put the "bug" in my mind concerning the conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary, BY the Holy Spirit. 

[Ron Amnsn]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:54 AM, The Wanderer said:

Ron, yes, you actually did say that EGW said this. I am quoting directly from your post.

I also quoted myself directly in my previous response. I did say what I said.  However, if you read the pertinent sentence carefully you will see that the sentence does not attribute to EGW the part about "Jesus kept the feasts".  Do we need a grammar lesson here?

[Ron Amnsn]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:48 AM, The Wanderer said:

I got those "constructs" right out of the Bible. How can anyone call it "man-made?"

There is an important difference between what is stated in the Bible, and what others have said about what is stated in the Bible.

The Bible tells us in Exodus 20 what the Ten Words were that God spoke from Mt. Sinai.  The Bible also tells us which commandments Jesus designated as the greatest commandment and the second-greatest commandment  However, the Bible does not say anything about the relationship between the Ten Words and the two greatest commandments.  If someone analyzes what is written in the Bible and makes a statement about some perceived relationship between the two, that statement does not magically become part of the Bible-- it is only a man-made construct making a claim about things in the Bible.

For example, my understanding is that religious Jews view God's instructions in the Law of Moses as a single unit -- a whole.  The Ten Words are important because they were spoken by God audibly to the whole congregation of Israel and were written on the covenant stones.  They are also like a "Table of Contents" or "List of Topics" for all of God's instructions in the Law of Moses.  However, those relationships between the Ten Words and the rest of the Law of Moses are not actually stated in the Bible.  Those are merely conclusions that men have made by analyzing what is in the Bible.  If I were to say that the Ten Words are the table of contents for the rest of the Law of Moses, you would be correct to point out that my claim is merely a man-made construct.  The same applies to what you have said about the relationship between the Ten Commandments and the two greatest commandments.

[Ron Amnsn]

25 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

@Ron Amnsn  This is what you posted.  Its pretty hard to side step that.

I don't need to side-step anything.  If you cut off my sentence right after the part you highlighted in red, so it said, "Jesus kept the feasts, that (according to EGW)" you would cut off everything that I attributed to EGW and would be left wondering what I thought was "according to EGW".  I don't see how anything in my sentence prior to the word "that" could be attributed to EGW.  I'm sorry you misunderstood what I wrote.

[8thdaypriest]

15 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

  On 8/21/2017 at 11:54 AM, The Wanderer said:

Jesus kept the feasts that, according to EGW, Jesus himself created and commanded

There are two issues in your quotation.

1.  Jesus created and commanded the Feasts as Yahweh, leading Israel.

2.  Jesus kept the Feasts.

To #2 - I say "Yes".  Why?  Because Jesus OBEYED the "Law" of God His Father - all of it, not just the 10.  Why would Jesus NOT KEEP the prophetic Feasts? 

To#1 - I say "Yes" but with the understanding that God the Father was the originator of the Feast commands, just as HE was the originator of the plan of salvation.  HE communicated those commands THROUGH His Son. 

God works and acts THROUGH His Son.  He created THROUGH His Son.  He communicates THROUGH His Son.  He redeems and reconciles, and judges and executes judgment THROUGH His Son. 

Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (NKJ)

"All things were created THROUGH Him" - including the Feasts.

[Ron Amnsn]

A quick search turns up this quotation from EGW that say Jesus kept the feasts:

"The time had now come when Christ was to keep the feast with His disciples, and He told Peter and John to find a place, and make ready the Passover supper.  ...
The time they spent with Him at these feasts had always been a time of joy; but now He was troubled in spirit. ...
This was the last time that Christ was to keep the feast with His disciples."  {SJ 94}

[8thdaypriest]

34 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Rachel; thank you for the reply, but just to let you know, that quotation is actually not mine. Ron had posted it a little above somewhere and when I tried to quote it to point out something on a different matter, the forum system put this quote under my name, as in the quote being from/by me I didnt know how to change it so I just left it.

Sorry - thanks for explaining.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

"Adventist Circles" eh?

Yes.   Isa. 66:22-23 is also quoted in books like the ones by Samuele Bacchiocchi (sold at the ABC).

[LifeHiscost]

All I know is of the Ten Words/commandments, only the 4th says remember. Can we infer from that we need not remember the other nine.

Just asking.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

And what explanation is there for this?

8 Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar."....Acts 25

Maybe God is just giving the best instruction to keep our brother/sister from becoming discouraged.

7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am.… 1 Corinthians 7

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[Ron Amnsn]

On 8/21/2017 at 10:02 PM, The Wanderer said:

There is nothing in Scripture telling us to call the ten commandments, the ten words. This is an old theological ruse to try and say that the "feasts" were a part of God's law, or of the ten commandments.

I don't use the Ten Words to make it seem that the feasts are part of the "ten commandments" -- they are not.

I use the term "Ten Words" to avoid the misconceptions in English that (a) there is a special category of God's commands called "commandments" of which there are only ten, and (b) that the word "commandments" refers only to the "ten commandments." 

It's not a ruse to say that God's feasts are a part of God's law -- they are included in God's law, just as tithing agricultural produce and not eating unclean meats are included in God's law.

The term "ten commandments" appears in English translations of Scripture in only three verses--  Exodus 34:28, Deut. 4:13, and Deut. 10:4.   In all three verses the Hebrew says "seret ha debarim".  The word seret means "ten" and ha debarim means "the words".   In the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament the Greek of those verses say, "tous deka logous",  "ta deka rhemata", and "tous deka logous", respectively.  tous and ta both mean "the", deka means "ten",  logous means "words", and rhemata means "words" or "utterance".  So if our English translations had been translated accurately from either Hebrew or Greek your Scriptures would be telling you to call the "ten commandments" the "ten words".

In Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 where it talks about "those who keep the commandments of God", it uses neither logous nor rhemata, but instead uses the word entolas for "commandments" which is a more general term meaning "commands".  For example, the word entolas is used in Numbers 15:22-23 of the Septuagint where the English says, "22 But if you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments that the LORD has spoken to Moses, 23 all that the LORD has commanded you by Moses, from the day that the LORD gave commandment, and onward throughout your generations,"