Judas, Foe of Jesus?...or Friend?

[cricket]

Front page of today's St. Louis Post Dispatch:

Manuscript portrays Judas as Jesus’ most trusted disciple

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Judas Iscariot, long reviled as history's quintessential betrayer, was actually

the best friend of Jesus and turned him over to authorities only because Jesus

asked him to, according to the Gospel of Judas, a long-lost document revealed

Thursday by the National Geographic Society.

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Anyone planning to watch Sunday's presentation by National Geographic?

[Nicodema]

No cable here ... anyone wanna do me the honors of taping it?

[Neil D]

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Anyone planning to watch Sunday's presentation by National Geographic?

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I am interested, but I am probably going to be traveling back home at that time... Someone wanna tape it for me and sent it too me???

[Bravus]

It's not as though the Gnostic gospels are new...

[Neil D]

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Bravus said:

It's not as though the Gnostic gospels are new...

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What make it a "Gnostic gospel"? I haven't seen much to verify that...Perhaps I am mistaken in my understanding of "Gnostic"...?

[Bravus]

http://www.nysun.com/article/30588

[Neil D]

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Bravus said:

http://www.nysun.com/article/30588

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As I suspected....

[:"green"] No scholar associated with the find argues this is a first century document, or that it derives from Judas. The release says the document was "copied down in Coptic probably around A.D. 300," although later that is changed to "let's say around the year 400." This amounts to saying that "The Gospel of Judas" is an authentic fabrication produced by a group of Gnostics in Egypt. Gnostics believed that their direct knowledge of heaven permitted them to understand what no one else knew, or could know by historical knowledge. For ancient Gnostics to believe in their own powers of divination is charming; for their flights of imagination to be passed off as historical knowledge in our time is dishonest or self-deceived.

[/]

So, it is an "authentic fabrication"....Hmmmm, much like finding JK Rowlings books , about a 1000 years in the future, are about true widardry...NOT!

[:"green"]Acknowledged experts in this field who have concentrated on "The Gospel of Judas," including James Robinson and Charles Hedrick, were not consulted for some reason. Did National Geographic want to keep some scholars of Coptic away from this document? [/]

Hmmmm...I wonder why the 'expersts' were not consulted? perhaps they know something that we don't and something that contradicts what the purported assertion is, eh?

[Amelia]

National Geopraphic video preview

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/gospelofjudas/preview.html

[Amelia]

From the National Geographic site "The Judas Gospel"

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/gospel/learn.html

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

DID YOU KNOW?

The early Christians known as Gnostics, whose beliefs are reflected in the Judas gospel, were not a homogeneous group; scholars even debate whether the many strains of Gnosticism should be lumped together under one banner. The Gnostic idea that individuals carry a spark of the divine within them may well have existed before Christianity. But after the time of Christ a number of Gnostics adopted Jesus as their savior—as the man who told humankind the truth about God—and thus considered themselves Christian. However, they understood his role and teachings in a very different way than orthodox Christians.

So, where did Jesus fit into Christian Gnostic cosmology?

Many Gnostics believed that Jesus was sent to Earth to teach humankind about a kind, loving, accepting God, who was very different from the tough, vengeful creator God of the Old Testament. Because Gnostics could not reconcile the two opposing aspects of the divine in one God, they believed there must be another god in addition to the creator God.

They came to view that second, greater God as a divine mind, who at the beginning of time had thoughts that spun off and became divine entities known as Aeons. The Aeons lived in the Pleroma, or fullness of God, which was a type of celestial ether or realm of light. One of these ideas made into substance was Wisdom, called "Sophia." She started to think and to have a mind of her own, and so she brought forth a new being without consulting the divine mind, and without its approval. This offspring was known as Yaldobaoth, and was called the demiurge, or creator.

The Gnostics believed it was Yaldobaoth who scooped up Adam and Eve from dirt and blew the breath of life into them. The creator spirit, an aberration in the pure world of the divine mind, brought evil into the world. But he also carried the essence of Sophia, and he exhaled some of the divine into Adam and Eve when he brought them to life. All of humankind has inherited that divine spark.

Jesus' role on Earth, according to the Gnostic Christians, was to tell humankind that they are descended from the divine. By knowing this, and looking inward to discover the divine spark, a Gnostic can be reunited with the divine and live in the fullness of God.

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[Neil D]

So, who profits from the desimation of Christianity's faith?

[Amelia]

Listen to the experts

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/gospel/video.html

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Cricket,

We were watching ABC news on Thursday night and saw a piece on this "Judas Gospel." I could only watch so much of it and then had to change the channel.

What is being said is that Jesus needed to find someone to turn him over to be crucified (Supposedly to fulfill the scripture) So Jesus asked Judas to betray Him there by making Judas a hero of the Christian faith rather than a son a perdition. According to this new finding this was to be known only to Jesus & Judas.

Brother's and sisters don't believe this garbage, read the your Bibles and you'll quickly see where this is coming from. If this were the case ask yourself this, why would Judas confess that he betrayed innocent blood and throw away 30 pieces of silver then hang himself?

There are many other truths of the Bible that will shread this attempt by Satan to destroy the faith of God's people.

Norman

[Nicodema]

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Norman said:

What is being said is that Jesus needed to find someone to turn him over to be crucified (Supposedly to fulfill the scripture) So Jesus asked Judas to betray Him there by making Judas a hero of the Christian faith rather than a son a perdition. According to this new finding this was to be known only to Jesus & Judas.

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This sounds to me like it is just one step removed from the next proposition: that Yahweh needed someone who would oppose the Divine order within the universe He had created, so that He could bring about a more full, perfect and complete revelation of the truth about Himself and His character. That He needed someone to invent, initiate, and instigate a campaign of untruth so that by contrast the Truth would shine more fully and clearly. And the name of this being was, of course, Lucifer. Thus Lucifer is a hero of the Christian faith as well instead of the root and source of all evil, death and suffering -- and this is apparently a "great secret" between Yahweh and Lucifer -- between God and Satan -- and made known only to the chosen few.

[Pockey]

I wonder if they'll mention that in the bible, Judas is the only disciple Jesus didn't pick to follow Him. Rather Judas volunteered himself.

[Nicodema]

Between this, the DaVinci Code movie coming out, and Baigent's newest offering (basically, a reworking of the old Passover Plot thesis), I sincerely smell a rat. This is just too much all at once to be mere coincidence. Old Hobb is up to something, mark my words.

[LifeHiscost]

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Sid said:

Judas is the only disciple Jesus didn't pick to follow Him. Rather Judas volunteered himself.

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I have heard this idea proposed before, Sid, but I would like to know how its' consistency is revealed with the Word, directly from the mouth of Jesus.

[:"red"] "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" [/] John 6:70 KJV

Of course Judas still could have been a volunteer, but it does seem as though Jesus received him despite his foreknowledge of Judas' nefarious behaviors.

In my mind it just verifies that Jesus accepts us for our potentials, not our righteousnesses. The fulfilling of those potentials are aided or avoided by the choices we make after he accepts us.

Thoughts?

Peace!!

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

No cable here ... anyone wanna do me the honors of taping it?

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There are two of you asking for a taping, of which I have the ability, but I'd like to refer you to another circumstance that might be possibly comparing apples with oranges. You decide. I suppose it would be ascertained by the reason we were interested. For the possibility of determining the truth of the Holy Word, or maybe gaining some information that might help us in persuading unbelievers (gnostics) to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The other circumstance found in the Scriptures is,

[:"red"] "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

"Behold, I have told you in advance.

"So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

"Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

" [/] Matthew 24:24-28 NASB

Just a thought as many people search the TV to find what the truth is, and I'm sure you agree, it can often be misleading.

[CyberGuy]

This tale from the book of Judas should not be taken any more seriously than a good fictional story. No one should take it serious and I find it amazing so many do take it seriously. The same for the Book and movie about the Da Vinchi code. Good fictional story and I am sure it will be an entertaining movie but I am not going to accept ot as factual. Neither should anyone else.

[bevin]

Like I have written here before - most Christian's do not understand the origins of the collection of Books that they revere

Read the opening to the Book of Luke, and understand that the 4 gospel's in the NT were not the only books so constructed.

The only way to decide that those 4 are much better than the rest is to trust in God and the early Christians to have made the right selection.

Either that, or live with the idea that we are dealing with books that are as accurate as newspaper reports today

/Bevin

[Neil D]

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Either that, or live with the idea that we are dealing with books that are as accurate as newspaper reports today

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Well, let's assume that before he died, Judas did one of those "Enquiror" interviews/wrote_a_ book_before_he_died thingys...[Granted, I have not seen a translation of the scroll, so I have no idea what is truely in it]

From what I gather, this is a look at a man who is justifying himself before the world as to why he betrayed Jesus to the Roman authorities. It seems to me that it is an account of a man who will blame everyone for the bad things that happen on everyone but himself....It is an example of sin that is working in a man... that confirms what EGW wrote in the Desire of Ages.

The only worth of the book is the logical self justification a guilty man makes about himself and the historical insights of the culture at the time, which may prove to be of great worth...

What bothers me is the irresponsible PR that is coming out...The "Gospel" of Judas...what 'good news' is that???

Who profits from this type of PR?

[Nicodema]

Wonder what the enemy has in mind for stirring this resurgence in gnosticism and apocryphal texts?

Wonder what God has in mind by allowing the question of canon to be opened at large as well?

We know they ain't got the same agenda, that's for sure.

Stay tuned ...

[David Koot]

One positive thing that may come of it, is renewed interest in the Bible.

[Amelia]

One would hope and pray that all those who start reading the bible, looking for the "codes" will find the Truth instead!

[Clio]

The only reason there is any belief in this hooey is that Western thought has totally lost or ignored the concept of a Blood Covenant and what that means.

Without the understanding of what Abba and Jesus purposed and completed by ratifying the Holy Blood Covenant between Abba Father and humanity in True Jesus Blood, any interpretation becomes possible.

With the understanding of what was accomplished, no other interpretation other than the Biblical is possible.

Simple, but deep.

Time is very very short, and business as usual is no longer usual. The stage is being set for the literal appearance of THE anti-christ.

[Nicodema]

Clio, a serious problem here is not just that "Western thought" has lost or ignored the concept of a Blood Covenant and what that means. It is that blood covenants are rooted in ancient tribal practices that have no relevance whatsoever to "Western" people today. It's beyond having lost the concept itself -- Western thought doesn't even have a framework for processing it. And more to the point -- couldn't care less. So if we're going to communicate anything to rectify the situation we have to figure out what IS relevant to them and use their language to communicate it. Just like we wouldn't go do missionary work in places where people only spoke Swahili without learning Swahili so we could talk to them.