A False Report of Rape

[Gregory Matthews]

Marie, was an 18 YO when she reported in 2008 that she was raped in her bed, in her home in Washington State,  by a male who tied her up with shoe strings and threatened her with a knife.  Unfortunately, she was not a reliable witness.   She was known to have experienced molestation as a child.   She had spent her life in some 20 foster homes.  He most recent foster mother had a graduate degree in mental health counseling and did not believe Marie's story.  The police considered her story to resemble that of a recent TV program.  She had a history of attention seeking behavior.  

With questioning, Marie confessed that the had invented the story.  This elicited relief from the law enforcement agencies.  The stopped looking for her alleged attacker and destroyed any evidence that had supported her original story.

The story as to how all of this happened and how this story became an example of a false report of rape is told in the following book.

Christian  Miller & Ken Armstrong.  A False Report:  A True Story of Rape in America.  2018 

[Gregory Matthews]

Sorry.   I neglected to add a bit of additional information about this case:

On March 18, two years, seven months and seven days after Marie had reported the alleged rape, the police again knocked on her door.  This time they presented with a check for the sum of $500 that represented court costs that she had been required to pay.   In addition they brought with them information for her as to how she could receive counseling help as a victim of rape.

Police in Colorado, while investigating a serial rapist had discovered photographic evidence of his attack on Marie!  Her original story had been true.

 

[Outta Here]

INFURIATING!! I hope she has a world-class lawyer!

 

[B/W Photodude]

For every story like this I could show you many the stories of many men who were falsely convicted of rape and spent decades in prison. So, her story matched many others who have lied for various reasons and some poor guy was falsely accused and convicted. Many times these little liars are not even prosecuted although law enforcement is starting to catch on and send these false accusers to jail. Unfortunately, you will have some angry feminist who will come out of the woodwork and complain that some woman will be afraid to tell her story because she might be charged with a crime. It's OK to them to destroy some guys life to keep the feminist agenda going.

[Outta Here]

...sometimes it's not about the "feminist agenda". 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The scientific studies that have been done on this subject have shown that there is a very low incidence of false reporting.  Yes, that is not zero.  But, it is not the large quantity that popular myth often says.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Why would the *police* be delivering a check to her and giving her info on rape counseling???

Was that also in Seattle?

 

[Gregory Matthews]

They delivered a check to her because when she confessed to a false report they had charged her that amount.  They gave her information as they now believed that she had indeed been raped as she had first reported due to the photographic evidence that supported her claim of rape.

 

[B/W Photodude]

There is a virtual storm of false allegations with many young men being expelled from colleges and universities all over this country with little due process. Many of them have settled lawsuits for undisclosed amounts of money for this very act of discriminating against men in this fashion. In most of the cases, the young men have not even been allowed to mount a defense and the accusers and administration of these institutions of "higher learning" will not even look at the evidence. BTW, the one in five has been mostly debunked and Rolling Stone magazine lost a huge lawsuit for jumping into the fray to run with this narrative. Don't forget the Duke University Lacrosse team debacle where the DA lost his law license for his misbehavior towards a group of young men. There is lots more anecdotal reports in the media.

[Gregory Matthews]

It is very difficult to obtain accurate figures on the number (per-cent) of false rape reports.  Generally the studies that have been done suggest that false reports range from 2% to 10% of the total reports.  Some studies cluster around about 5%.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Due Process:   Only exists in a criminal trial.  Like it or not, Due Process is not a requirement in situations that are not criminal in nature.

The bottom line is as I stated in a previous post.  False reports are a small percent of the reports made.

 

[B/W Photodude]

2 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Due Process:   Only exists in a criminal trial.  Like it or not, Due Process is not a requirement in situations that are not criminal in nature.

Not really. Due process simply means "fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement."

[B/W Photodude]

Since this is from a site dedicated to men's rights, it will probably be dissed. However, look at some of the statistics for how many claims were unfounded and how the numbers get parsed sometimes. I noticed that many of the sites claiming the 2 - 10% were from those who might have a reason to claim such low numbers.

http://ncfm.org/2017/07/news/uncategorized/ncfm-false-rape-accusation-update/

One quote:

"In a study by the U.S. Air Force, about one-fourth of rape accusers recanted just before taking a lie detector test or after failing one.  Further research found 60% of the accusations were false.  The most common reasons given were spite or revenge, feelings of guilt or shame, or to cover up an affair.  McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64."

[B/W Photodude]

One of the problems is that sometimes feminists groups put out a lie and the public and media just fall into line behind it. Another well known lie was the Super Bowl-domestic violence myth that has been debunked. Not to forget either, the birth defects because of domestic violence lie. And now we have one more to put down in the court of public opinion. 

"The Truth behind Legal Dominance Feminism's Two Percent False Rape Claim Figure" (and yes, it is a feminist agenda!):

http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2216&context=llr

Back to the original post, what were the police to do when the victim stated she had made up the story. Kudos to the police for following up and making things right when they came upon the truth. Too often when innocent people are in jail, it takes a lot longer to win their freedom when wrongly convicted, which  is why I do not support the death penalty.

[Outta Here]

...well, you've worked your magic and shut me up from the conversation. enjoy the forum for the next few months, 'til I work up the courage to join in again and hope that the threads I participate in won't be hijacked by those who are afraid of women. 

[CoAspen]

Aubrey,

Perhaps the phrase,  'Hell has no fury like a woman scorned', would work equally well if the 'wo' was removed!!

William Congreve, in The Mourning Bride, 1697

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

They delivered a check to her because when she confessed to a false report they had charged her that amount.  They gave her information as they now believed that she had indeed been raped as she had first reported due to the photographic evidence that supported her claim of rape.

you drastically missed the point of my question...  my question wasn't about why she had money returned to her, nor was it about the why she was given information regarding rape counseling.  I *got* that the first time out.

My question was why did POLICE OFFICERS give her those things?  I thought it rather strange that POLICE OFFICERS (rather than a representative of the court) would be the messengers.

[Gregory Matthews]

Aubrey, you contribute to this forum.  Do not let people drive you away.  Stick around. 

[Gregory Matthews]

In a previous post Photodude mentioned a number of studies that he felt supported his view on the false reports of rape.  They interested me and I decided to investigate.  The more I searched the Internet, the more concerned I became.  As a major issue:  It became apparent that most of the websites simply quoted each other and did not cite an original source.  This troubled me.  I wished that Photodude had cited an original source.  Further, I could not find any information as to the alleged source article for the alleged 1985 U.S. Air force study.

Finally I did find an article that dwelt in detail with that alleged study.  You can reference that article at that following URL and I suggest that you will find it interesting to do so:

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/OCADVSA_RapeAndFalseReports_2010.pdf

The above is a 13 page, detailed article on the subject of false reports of rape.  Anyone who has a serious interest in the subject should read it.  It clearly presents the problems that are associated with the figures that people allege to present the facts as to false reports.  This article does have a focus on to studies that are often studied and it presents issues as to how those studies are misrepresented.

Near the close of the article it says:

Nobody really knows how many reports are false, but when careful analysis of case files by police experts in investigation and coding is accomplished, the data narrows toward a range of 2-8%. It is striking that skeptics who laud the Kanin and McDowell studies for their inclusion of law enforcement data make no mention of the dozens of subsequent studies, also based on law enforcement data, or even the FBI’s analysis of all law enforcement data combined, which corroborate a false report percentage in the single digits. 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Another quote from the article:

There’s a problem, though. Look a little more closely and you’ll find that all of these website simply copy each others’ own summaries of the article. None of them actually provides the article itself. None of them quotes from the article. In fact, what they do quote is each other’s conclusions about the article, sometimes literally pasting in the identical text from one another’s websites. This is considered a poor practice in rigorous scholarship known as an “echo chamber”: a cluster of writers each cite one another as their supporting sources, forming a daisy-chain of self-supporting “research.” An article says what they claim it says, and how do they know it says that? Because someone else told them it did, despite neither having actually read the study.  I checked. First, I contacted nearly all of these websites to ask them directly for a copy of the study they were enthusiastically featuring as Exhibit A in the “women are lying” argument. Not one of them had a copy. Not one of them had ever read it. They had simply borrowed their allies’ claims about what the article really said. Citing a paper from 1985 that one has not actually read, or ever seen at all, is dishonest scholarship. If this topic were being discussed in a more scholarly forum, that alone would constitute academic fraud. And that’s before we even get to investigate whether McDowell found legitimate, valid, and reliable data to support the notion that 60% of rape allegations are false. Considering that bold claim, and the adoring devotion its advocates lavish on the McDowell article, it had better deliver the goods.   Again, I checked. The 27% figure, for starters, may grab peoples’ attention but it’s not a true reading of the article anyway. First, not all of the 556 allegations were actually allowed inclusion of the study. If the authors could not make a determination o truth or falseness outright, they were excluded. Consequently, 256 allegations were excluded out-of-hand. We simply don’t know if they were true or false. The 27% figure is derived from the 300 remaining cases; in fact, that means the 27% “false” cases represent 14% of the entire original number of allegations.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Notice that according to McDowell (You should read the entire article.)  if a woman  who has alleged rape actually becomes pregnant, that is evidence that she was falsely alleging rape.  Astounding!

Notice that not one of these checklist items has any bearing on whether the rape allegation is actually true or not. They do not represent any statistically-valid test. What they do measure, buy contrast, is the degree to which a victim’s account conforms to Dr. McDowell’s own projections about women’s dishonesty. If a woman really were stalked, or harassed, or assaulted by a perpetrator of another race, or was traumatically “numb” and wished to avoid the whole topic of rape afterward, every one of these attributes would earn her a higher “falsehood” score on the McDowell scale. Her score is not based on any weighted, peer-reviewed, replicable findings in any other literature. Rather, her score rises toward “false/overkill” simply because McDowell subjectively, personally, presumptively awards it a mark in the “false” column. Does McDowell have a bias? Considering that he described women who report rape as “narcissists, socio-paths and immature, impulsive, inadequate, types,”2 one could wonder. (McDowell also went on to defend his findings by portraying certain types of injuries to the victim as implausible, “amounting to nothing,” particularly if there was not convincing trauma to the lips, nipples, or vagina. Scratches and bruises, according to him, are evidence of fraud, not truth.) Yes, that’s correct: if a victim reports any of these details, her “score” increases and the study reviewers were entitled to rule her claim to be false. This remains true even though some of the items are cliché rape myths (notice the preponderance of victim blaming items, such as her use of alcohol, mental health state, presence of work or relationship problems—none of which has any bearing on the truthfulness of a criminal allegation), or whether the items are logical, reasonable attributes of a genuine sexual assault, such as having been previously stalked, requesting a female physician or officer, a desire to drop the whole matter, a desire to avoid the topic of rape, uncertainty about details, or even reporting a rapist of another race than her own. All of these add up in the “false” column, per McDowell. If a woman has been raped and the rape results in pregnancy (which really does happen), then because the pregnancy is explained by the rape her  “falsehood” score increases because her allegation “solves a problem for the victim.” The consequence: a whopping five points (the maximum) are added to her “false” score.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

As a final quote from the article that I cited, I give the following.  The bottom line is that no one who understands reputable science could today cite the 1985  McDowell study as being reputable.

All that the McDowell study documents are that 60% of women who allege rape also experienced many of the common attributes of a rape experience, such as stalking, harassment, emotional numbness, superficial injuries, and a desire to have the whole trauma out of their minds. None of these traits indicates falseness of the allegation, and they may even substantiate it. Astoundingly, I found Doctors of Psychology citing the shabby, thoroughly-disgraceful McDowell article (again, not one of them who responded to my inquiries actually had a copy of it!), including trainers on forensic examinations.  In short, when “women are lying about rape” skeptics uplift the 1985 McDowell article as their key evidence, they are in fact supporting the notion that an allegation of rape that matches any of these criteria, regardless of whether they might actually be true, should be subjectively deemed “false.” There is a huge difference between merely passing around a 25-year-old digest article’s dramatic conclusions about false reports, and actually investigating the abominable methodology used to reach that conclusion (especially a digest article so obscure that even the people promoting it don’t have a copy). One news article about the problem of sexual assault of women in the Air Force specifically referenced the McDowell Checklist, noting, “Considering the seeming irrelevance and bias of the questions, it is not surprising that the McDowell checklist turns up a 60 percent incidence of "false" rape reports, compared to a national average of about eight percent (according to FBI numbers).”4   McDowell himself has subsequently cautioned against using his own checklist as a method of discounting women’s claims, so even he no longer supports the conclusion that skeptics pin to him. One forensic training manual for law enforcement which cites McDowell and (colleague) Hibler’s 1987 text on rape investigation clarifies,

 As they [McDowell and Hibler] caution, however, none of these characteristics is significant by itself and may not even indicate a false allegation when they appear                                                 3 Of added interest may be McDowell’s other studies, as well. For example, he also authored an article claiming that many murders are actually “Munchausen’s syndrome” suicides disguised to appear as homicides. The article focuses on one case study as grounds for “the need for a reexamination of the dynamics of factitious allegations of criminal victimization” and “the issue of false claims of criminal victimization.”  4 http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking2/RapeNation.html
Rape and False Reports, by Matt Atkinson: www.ocadvsa.org 5
in combination. Rather, when many of the indicators appear in a particular case this should simply be used as a caution to the investigator that the allegation could potentially be distorted or false.5 (emphasis mine)
 What does modern scholarship from other forensic experts have to say about the matter? The same texts that cite McDowell (16 years subsequent to his study) go on to deconstruct nearly every rape myth his original checklist promoted. In their Training Manual for Law Enforcement, the National Center for Women and Policing offers these insights:
 [M]any victims will give inconsistent or untrue information as part of their statement, but this should not be confused with a false allegation. For example, victims might give inconsistent or untrue information out of trauma or disorganization, discomfort relaying sexual details, fear of being doubted or blamed, or out of an attempt to make the assault sound more like the stereotypic "real rape" with which we are all familiar… First, it is critically important that officers realize that these inconsistencies or untruths are understandable and should not be confused with a "false" allegation… Given the many reasons for doing so, it is understandable and perhaps even inevitable that victims will often make inconsistent or untrue statements about their assault. However, many investigators and others have mistakenly concluded on this basis that the entire allegation is false… The characterization of these cases as "false allegations" is not only incorrect but also troubling. In the first instance, the victim omitted details of certain sexual acts out of shame. In the second, she omitted details of her own drug use in order to bolster her perceived credibility, and in the third she failed to provide the identity of her assailant out of fear for her life. These case examples are not really false allegations. These are cases in which the victim omitted or distorted information about the assault, but they do not negate the reality that the assault happened.6

 

 

 

[CoAspen]

Thanks GM, your research shows that more often than not people really do not want the truth. We are living in that age, more so.

 

[debbym]

years ago i researched this topic and it was stated that only 10% of rapes are even reported.

and only 10 percent of those reported have enough evidence to go to court.

[B/W Photodude]

20 hours ago, Aubrey said:

...well, you've worked your magic and shut me up from the conversation. enjoy the forum for the next few months, 'til I work up the courage to join in again and hope that the threads I participate in won't be hijacked by those who are afraid of women. 

Sorry you do not like the way this thread went. However, I have noticed in the past that you did not like anything that took issue with the feminist movement. However, more than just women have ideas in this world as much as the feminists would like most men to just die. In fact, one feminist put forth the idea that the world's population of men should be reduced to no more than 10% of the population! You really should study this movement more and keep in mind that many women want nothing to do with it and they likewise also get trashed by these feminists. Sadly, IMHO, this very movement's influence has penetrated our church and especially the NAD in it's ordination policies. I also note that when any of the liberal SDA websites puts up a piece regarding this issues, another wave of comments from the readers often with severe criticism of the church leadership erupts.

Perhaps, if you can tolerate it, you should study this movement more and I put these links up for you to consider. Tell me if you see anything uplifting in the descriptions of the behaviors of those in the feminist movement. Sorry the whole issue disturbs you.

https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-1/
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-3/
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-2/