How long is the Hour of His Judgment? Will it continue forever?

[hch]

Daniel 4 reveals that the Judgment Hour of King Nebuchadnezzar arrived at a specific time.

Daniel 4 also reveals that the Judgment Hour of King Nebuchadnezzar had duration 7 years.

Revelation 14 states that the Judgment Hour has come (it arrived in 1844)

What is the duration of the Judgment Hour? If we fail to do the work God appointed in the Judgment Hour, will it go on forever?

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Note to all who are reading this thread.

We welcome a wide range of people to this forum.  Many of those welcomed are not members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Further, the  members of the SDA denomination represent a wide range of belief on many subjects and members may not accept some official forms of SDA doctrinal belief. 

HCH regularly posts in this forum.  He likes to specialize in End Time events, to include the name of the last President of  the U.S. and the name of the last person to be the Roman Catholic Pope in  Rome.  Often his speculation has been wrong.

It must be understood that what HCH posts on these subjects is NOT the teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

HCH asserts that his understanding of these events is based upon solid Biblical teachings.

In actual fact, the teachings of the Bible should be understood based upon solid, exegesis and that any alleged Biblical teachings should be considered with great caution that are based upon eisegesis.

 

 

[JoeMo]

3 hours ago, hch said:

Revelation 14 states that the Judgment Hour has come (it arrived in 1844)

It obviously did not start in 1844, or none of us would be alive today.  When the hour of His judgement arrives, there will be no doubt that the hour of His judgement has come.  There are many explicit overt signs given in scripture that point to the imminent return of Jesus (e.g., a counterfeit peace treaty between the Palestinians and the Jews, a new temple for the antichrist to desecrate, a war that seems to end the existence of Israel, setting up of a one-world religion/government, unprecedented natural and human-caused catastrophes, mark of the beast).  Most of those things have not yet happened.  The Second Coming is at least a rolling 7 years away, in my opinion.  But hey - that's just my opinion, not a salvational doctrine point.

[hch]

49 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Note to all who are reading this thread.

We welcome a wide range of people to this forum.  Many of those welcomed are not members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Further, the  members of the SDA denomination represent a wide range of belief on many subjects and while members may not accept some official forms of SDA doctrinal belief. 

HCH regularly posts in this forum.  He likes to specialize in End Time events, to include the name of the last President of  the U.S. and the name of the last person to be the Roman Catholic Pope in  Rome.  Often his speculation has been wrong.

It must be understood that what HCH posts on these subjects is NOT the teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

HCH asserts that his understanding of these events is based upon solid Biblical teachings.

In actual fact, the teachings of the Bible should be understood based upon solid, exegesis and that any alleged Biblical teachings should be considered with great caution that are based upon eisegesis.

Gregory,

This was an interesting intro. Thank you.

If it had mentioned the times that I have been right in my expression of prophetic understanding before the fact (like my call from Sept 2011 to Sept 2012 that Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013), it would have been more balanced and maybe even perfect. But as humans we often focus upon what goes wrong rather than what goes right.

That was the focus of the world (on the Adventists who had been wrong) in the times of the early Advent movement. When these Adventists waited for Christ to come in 1843 and again in 1844, the world focused on their misunderstanding of Bible prophecy, because Christ had not come. Later when it was learned that the Adventists had the time right, but the event wrong, they could not prove that anything transpired in Heaven to show that they had been right. So some fell by the wayside and others banded together in faith to go forward awaiting the perfect light that was to come in its time. Thus from their failure, the remnant of these disappointed Adventists formed the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Perhaps history will repeat itself on the eve of Christ's Advent? 

[hch]

35 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

It obviously did not start in 1844, or none of us would be alive today.  When the hour of His judgement arrives, there will be no doubt that the hour of His judgement has come.  There are many explicit overt signs given in scripture that point to the imminent return of Jesus (e.g., a counterfeit peace treaty between the Palestinians and the Jews, a new temple for the antichrist to desecrate, a war that seems to end the existence of Israel, setting up of a one-world religion/government, unprecedented natural and human-caused catastrophes, mark of the beast).  Most of those things have not yet happened.  The Second Coming is at least a rolling 7 years away, in my opinion.  But hey - that's just my opinion, not a salvational doctrine point.

That is an interesting thought JoeMo. 

But are you mixing apples and oranges in that response?

[JoeMo]

38 minutes ago, hch said:

But are you mixing apples and oranges in that response?

How is that?  If you are implying that I am mixing apples and oranges by comparing Millerite beliefs to scripture, you are correct.  The Millerites (and IMHO EGW) got it wrong with their preterist/historicist assumptions.  I am a futurist; and believe that the Bible is clear that all apocolypic prophecies are about the future and occur in real -time - not this "day for a year" stuff.

[hch]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

How is that?  If you are implying that I am mixing apples and oranges by comparing Millerite beliefs to scripture, you are correct.  The Millerites (and IMHO EGW) got it wrong with their preterist/historicist assumptions.  I am a futurist; and believe that the Bible is clear that all apocolypic prophecies are about the future and occur in real -time - not this "day for a year" stuff.

It is difficult to compare the Historicists', Preterists', and Futurists' views with each other.

EGWhite stated that some of Revelation is in the past, the present, and the future.

That is difficult to fathom if one tries to place all prophecy in the past or future.

And there are some prophecies that have multiple meanings that could apply to the past, present, and future.

The Hour of His judgment is one of those prophecies. The Hour of His Judgment began in the past (1844), continued through what was a present period of time, and ended at a date future to its commencement, which is now in the past since history has continued after prophecy met fulfillment. Thus now it can be said of the 1844 Judgment Hour that both its commencement and duration are in the past.

Thus the question that follows...Is that true of the Judgment Hour of the Living as well?  That it is past, present, or to continue into the future?

But most Adventists who think about such things focus on the point in time for the Judgment Hour to begin and forget that an Hour has DURATION.

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, hch said:

It is difficult to compare the Historicists', Preterists', and Futurists' views with each other.

Not really.  The preterist/historisist view requires one to accept that the "day for a year" interpretation in Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4: 5-6 for all apocalyptic prophecy.  This is a false assumption.  For example, if the "day for year" interpretation applies to the 1260 days, time, times and half a time, and 42 months, does it also apply to the 5th trumpet in Rev. 9 where the demons from the abyss are allowed to torture humans for 5 months?  That's 150 years in "day for month" prophetic time.  Does it pertain to the millennium?  That's 360,000 years in "day for year" prophecy.  If not, where are we advised in Revelation to change from "day for year" interpretation to "real-time" interpretation?

I choose the "real time", futurist interpretation.  It just makes more sense to me, given the current "signs of the times".

[hch]

7 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

which "the" do you mean?

Revelation 14:7  "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

The Judgment Hour came in 1844. It had a beginning and it has duration.

Knowing the beginning date, how long is its duration (1 hour)?

[hch]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Not really.  The preterist/historisist view requires one to accept that the "day for a year" interpretation in Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4: 5-6 for all apocalyptic prophecy.  This is a false assumption.  For example, if the "day for year" interpretation applies to the 1260 days, time, times and half a time, and 42 months, does it also apply to the 5th trumpet in Rev. 9 where the demons from the abyss are allowed to torture humans for 5 months?  That's 150 years in "day for month" prophetic time.  Does it pertain to the millennium?  That's 360,000 years in "day for year" prophecy.  If not, where are we advised in Revelation to change from "day for year" interpretation to "real-time" interpretation?

I choose the "real time", futurist interpretation.  It just makes more sense to me, given the current "signs of the times".

Is the day for a year principle a one size fits all prophecy measurement? As I read Daniel a day for a day fits Daniel 8:14 and a day for a year fits it as well. 

But when the 2300 years concludes from Daniel 8:14 in 1844, Revelation 10 states time shall be no longer. That is saying that long time (day= year) yields to day =day in the balance of Revelation unless the context indicates another meaning.

You loose me here "in Rev. 9 where the demons from the abyss are allowed to torture humans for 5 months?  That's 150 years in "day for month" prophetic time. "

[Gregory Matthews]

Re:  HCH's prophetic time if one hour:

Without getting into a discussion of the validity of the prophetic time of one day equaling one year, that thesis is alleged to be based upon Scriptural references that are believed to establish that prophetic time period.

Those who attempt to equate a one hour period of a fraction of the year would say that the prophetic hour is about 1/24 of a year or about 15 days or some might say 2-weeks.  The exact time is not important for the issue that I am addressing.

My point is that there is no Biblical support for such.  Such is simply eisegesis--reading into the text of Scripture what one wants it to say.  The Bible should never be approached from that perspective.  It is not a good  method of understanding the Bible.

[hch]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 3:41 AM, The Wanderer said:

I agree 100% here. The thing about "the judgment" is that it is not dependent upon specific dates, times, etc as such ones like HCH try to say. Many of the texts call it "His judgment" rather than "the judgment" leaving open the possiblity that God's judgment may have several phases, in fact I would say 4 phases, but no dates needed to understand enough. If God's judgment is centered around some random date picked by the eisigesis flavor of the month, then no one could be saved. The judgment is centered around the cross; Christ and Him crucified, (Gal 6:14), and anything that tries to detract from that is simply not saying the truth

 

Are you now saying that the times cited in the  book of Revelation are meaningless? Are you also  saying that The Hour of His Judgment is not an Hour that began in 1844? Is 1844 relevant as the Hour of the commencement of the Judgment  or not? If the time of the commencement of the Judgment Hour is important enough for God to place it in Scripture, why would He conceal the duration of the Judgment Hour?

Is the message quoted above intended to focus on the messenger and downplay the message?

I focus on the message and attempt to understand the meaning of the hour. But your reply appears to be saying that it is not important to understand the elements that compose the message. In times of ignorance God has been known to wink. But when knowledge is available and His people have rejected it, God has been know to have the prophets relay a different message: My people are destroyed because they reject KNOWLEDGE. 

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH, what we are saying is this:

Your approach to the Bible is eisegesis.  You attempt to read into the  Biblical text your pre-conceived notions that have often been shown to be wrong.  You go well beyond what the Bible actually teaches.

It is not that the Biblical teachings are not important.  It is that your alleged elements of those teachings are not based  upon what the Bible actually teaches. 

[Kevin H]

We tend to MISREAD the first angel's message. the first angel's message is the everlasting gospel spreading through the earth so that we can rejoice in rather than fear the hour of his judgment. For those who respond to the first angel's message they have accepted that God is indeed God, the creator.

In Church history Atonement has come to mean what does it take to get into heaven. The Catholics had many things people had to do to make their atonement. The Protestants sees that the only thing it takes to get into heaven is the atonement in Jesus. (It has sadly become limited to what Jesus did on the cross only, while his whole life, passion/death and resurrection and post resurrection is a fuller view of atonement.)

The Biblical meaning of Atonement is a little bit different from the Church History meaning. While the church history meaning is "what does it take for me to get into heaven."  Atonement/Judgment in the Bible is ANYTHING that God does, especially something out of the ordinary, that gives us a blessing and brings us closer to God if we accept or which means we at least miss a blessing, although could end up missing out on a saving relationship with God if we reject. In the Bible sense atonement started the moment the first created being opened it's eyes to see their creator and start a relationship with the creator.

A brief note on 1844. The ancient world believed in cyclic thought. That different times and events would circle around in certain times in history and that different places were equivalent to each other. (three very useful books of which I wish two were in every Adventist home, are "Before History" by Henri Frankfort and others 1946 University of Chicago press. "Hebrew Thought Compared to Greek" by Bowman are the major two. A third pretty good book but not as important as the first two is "The myth of the eternal return" by Mircea Eliade). There were different times that could have fulfilled Daniel 8:14. ONE of these is Yom Kippur 1844 (I am not hung up on which date for Yom Kippur was the correct one.) What we find in 1844 is that the book of Robinson's 1830s trip to the land of the Bible was finally published and starting to be read. This is what opened up the ancient world, especially the world of the Bible so that we can start to investigate the pages of scripture as never before. In the cycles what happens in heaven has a reflection on earth. For ourselves on earth it is the dawning of the age of exegesis. For heaven it is a review of those claiming to have accepted Jesus to first of all see if they really did nor not and if they did what difference did Jesus make in their lives. This helps the angels and others understand their own salvation through Jesus clearer.

[hch]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH, what we are saying is this:

Your approach to the Bible is eisegesis.  You attempt to read into the  Biblical text your pre-conceived notions that have often been shown to be wrong.  You go well beyond what the Bible actually teaches.

It is not that the Biblical teachings are not important.  It is that your alleged elements of those teachings are not based  upon what the Bible actually teaches. 

That is what you are saying. Not true about me but you say it anyways.

The Bible says that the HOUR of His Judgment has come. the Bible actually teaches that an hour is a definite point in time and that it has duration.

That is not a preconceived notion, it is factual. The problem is that when Bible study reveals how long  the duration of an hour is, it cuts across preconceived notions. Thus you project an error onto me that belongs to another. 

Christ identified this problem in His warning to Laodicea. We must be cautious not to fall into their mindset. The Laodiceans were rich (in wisdom and knowledge?) They thought that they had need of nothing new under the sun? So they rejected or labeled things that did not fit their preconceived opinions rather than to look at the facts that are presented. Theirs is a dangerous pitfall that needs to be avoided, lest the same error entrap us.

 

[hch]

14 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

We tend to MISREAD the first angel's message. the first angel's message is the everlasting gospel spreading through the earth so that we can rejoice in rather than fear the hour of his judgment. For those who respond to the first angel's message they have accepted that God is indeed God, the creator.

Hey Kevin, 

It has been a while since I've heard form you. Hope all is well in your world. Did you ever get another Murphy?

You make some great points in your comments. I would agree about misreading the First Angel's Message. But it may be a little more complex. The message has several elements that are of equal weight. It is not an either/or message. 

A) Fear God, and give glory to Him;

1. Fear is to hold God in awe (respect and be afraid... Moses hid his face at the burning bush, etc.)
2. fear is to love God

for the hour of his judgment is come: 

1. God is the Judge
2. God is being judged
3. the Hour is a point in time
4. The hour has duration

C) and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:7)

1. He is worthy of worship
2. He is the Creator
3. The earth is not the sea He created it to be different
4. The sea is not the earth He created it to be different
5. He also created the fountains of waters  to be different from the earth and sea

And the questions that I seek to understand more fully...How long is the Hour of His Judgment? Will it continue forever? 

[hch]

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Insofar as the context by which you use them; yes. Totally meaningless and unecessary to know for "salvation."  God doesnt care if someone does or does not know certain intricacies of prophetic times. He did not put the "judgment hour" message in that context at all.  Obviously if Jesus is coming again; judgment will reach its conclusion. But there is no mandate to know something which we are told no one can ever know.

My favorite author does not see it your way:

Quote

Though no man knoweth the day nor the hour of His coming, we are instructed and required to know when it is near. We are further taught that to disregard His warning, and refuse or neglect to know when His Advent is near, will be as fatal for us, as it was for those who lived in the days of Noah not to know when the flood was coming.  (GC88 370.2)

 

Quote

The richest treasures of truth were opened before them. Every mind needed the jewels and gems that were revealed, but by confederating together they were deceived and their stakes were set fast. Thus have…churches dealt with the message from heaven.

The Lord loves His people, and would lead them step by step onward under the banner of truth, the third angel’s message. Still the precious mines of truth are to be explored. There should be, by every man who teaches the truth, a constant searching for what saith the Scriptures? ...

God’s people in these last days are not to choose darkness rather than light. They are to look for light, to expect light. The light will continue to shine from the Word of God whether men will hear or forbear, whether they will come to the light or turn from the light.  (1888 826.3-827.1)

 

Quote

Our salvation depends on a knowledge of the truth contained in the Scriptures. It is God’s will that we should possess this. (COL 111.3)

 

 

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

You will be proven wrong again in this thread, as you have been in every other subject here on this time-setting business you seem to be evolving with

 

Quote

We must know for ourselves that the Spirit of God is abiding in our hearts, and that we can hold communion with God. Then if He should come to us quickly, if by any chance our life should suddenly be ended, we should be ready to meet our God. (GCB, April 6, 1903 par. 2 )

 

[jsm]

Ellen White wrote, “In 1844 our great High Priest entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, to begin the work of the investigative judgment. The cases of the righteous dead have been passing in review before God. (Now note this:) When that work shall be completed, judgment is to be pronounced upon the living.” 1SM 125. That transition takes place in Rev. 4 & 5; and the living will be tested before Christ pronounces judgment. Palms. 139:23-24. 

All should be encouraged to find that the often ignored ending of the Investigative Judgment, as it passes to the living, is explained in great detail in Revelation. It’s about our times as described in a historic continuation of church and world conditions after chapters 2 & 3. 

But don’t the seven seals and seven trumpets present repetitions of past historic times? Yes, in partial ways, and we should consider them as proper wakeup calls for the Investigative Judgment that began in 1844. It’s like Peter telling people that the Joel 2:28-32 “day of the Lord” prophecy was being fulfilled by an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:16-21. And Ellen White explained: “This prophecy received a partial fulfillment in the outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost; but it will reach its full accomplishment in the manifestation of divine grace which will attend the closing work of the gospel.” GC ix.3.   

Here are statements where she applies chapters following Rev. 2 and 3 in the same way: “The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of God for these last days. There are some who are deceived. They do not realize what is coming on the earth….. Unless they make a decided change they will be found wanting when God pronounces judgment upon the children of men.” 9T 267. That “last days” judgment will be for the living.

So, “Study Revelation in connection with Daniel, for history will be repeated…. As we near the close of this world's history, the prophecies relating to the last days especially demand our study. The last book of the New Testament Scriptures is full of truth that we need to understand.” TM 116. 

And this: “Revelation 6 and 7 are full of meaning. Terrible are the judgments of God revealed. The seven angels stood before God to receive their commission. To them were given seven trumpets (see Rev. 8-11). The Lord was going forth to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth was to disclose her blood and no more cover her slain…. But there are mercies mixed with judgment. Revelation 7:3, 4. The Lord has a people whom He will preserve. John beheld the ‘four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree’ (Revelation 7:1, 3) till the seal of the living God shall be placed upon those who love God and keep His commandments.” 15MR 219-220. The timing for Rev. 6 & 7 events are here closely related. 

There are two Revelation messages Jesus gave about early 19th century events that help us to understand what is happening now. First He said, “I have put before you an open door which no one can shut.” Revelation 3:8. That symbol marked the 1844 year when the court sat in heaven and the Investigative Judgment began. GC 429-430.  

Jesus then said, “Because you have kept the word of My patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” Revelation 3:10. 

But conditions changed in the next church period, which is about our times. Jesus said: “because you are (spiritually) lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of My mouth.” Revelation 3:16. That means He will no longer “keep you from the (testing) hour of temptation.” And note this: “Just before us is ‘the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.’ Revelation 3:10. All whose faith is not firmly established upon the word of God will be deceived and overcome.” GC 560. 

[hch]

JSM,

My study that is in the book THE DAY DAWNS, it agrees with all that you have written above.

I understand the judgment message in 4 parts.

• The dead are judged
• The living are judged
• The Lord Comes bringing His reward with Him (partial judgment on the wicked that are alive)
• After 1000 years Judgment is dispensed upon the wicked

The concern is that the time allotted to judge the dead and living has ended.

Thus we are in the final sealing time. The Third Angel's Message is binding with that of the Fourth Angel 

they are soon to swell into the Loud Cry and TOO many of the professed people of God 

ARE INDIFFERENT, DON'T CARE, DON'T BELIEVE IT,  or are so fast asleep that they are in REAL DANGER

Pray Pray Pray

[jsm]

Judgment of the living is now in its early stages. After Jesus described conditions in the seventh church period, John was still in vision and saw the same symbolic door in heaven that Jesus told about in Rev 3:8; it had already been opened and lead directly to the inner throne room of God. Then he heard Jesus say: “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place hereafter.” Rev. 4:1.

He was taken there, still in vision, and saw the same court session that began in 1844 as it was about to make a critical transition from judging the dead to judging the living; and that judgment of the living includes the hour of testing which is “coming on the whole world.”

After John saw that Rev. 4 court scene, he was shown a very special sealed “book” in God’s hand, which no “man” can take but Jesus. Rev. 5:1-4, 7. And after Jesus, the Lamb, takes the book it is called, “the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world,” and “the Lamb's book of life.” Rev. 5:6-7; 13:8; 21:27. It is the title to His kingdom. Dan. 7:13-14. Following verses show a testing time for the living; so the sealed book marks an end of the investigation for the dead, and a transition to the time when the living will be tested and judged.

It was an elder involved in the investigative judgment who declared that one had been found during their investigation process. And other elders joined in to say that Jesus had met all the requirements, making Him worthy to take the book; and that’s why John was told to stop crying. The elders said Jesus was a man of the tribe of Judah who had not only “prevailed” by living a sinless life, but He also paid the purchase price. He “was slain, and has redeemed us to God by (His) blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.” Rev. 5:5, 9.

Jesus takes the sealed book and removes one seal at a time, while the living are being tested and judged; and no changes will be made in the book until it is completely unsealed and opened. Only then will sins be blotted out: “Since the dead are to be judged out of the things written in the books, it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the judgment at which their cases are to be investigated.” GC 485. It’s as Peter said, “Repent and be converted, so your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing (the latter rain) shall come from the presence of the Lord.” Acts 3:19.

Also, the names of unfaithful followers of God must be removed. “The LORD (Jesus) said to Moses, ‘Whoever has sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book.’” Exodus 32:33. But “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. And Jesus later said, “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.” Revelation 3:5. 

So Jesus takes the book in chapter 5 and begins to unseal it in chapter 6 while events take place on earth, and the first four are led by symbolic horses; then it is fully unsealed and opened in chapter 8. Note that chapter 7 includes a testing time for Christ’s people, and four angels are “holding the four winds of the earth” until a symbolic 144,000 faithful ones are sealed while still living. They will have a special mission in the final period before Jesus comes.

And there’s an important relationship between the four winds and the four horses, as was seen by Zechariah in vision. He saw four chariots pulled by red, black, dappled, and white horses, and was told, “These are the four spirits [winds] of the heavens.” Zech 6:5. The Hebrew word can be translated as either “spirits” or “winds.”

“Angels are holding the four winds, which are represented as an angry horse seeking to break loose and rush over the face of the whole earth, bearing destruction and death in its path.” ML 308. So the four testing winds of Rev. 7 are the same as events described in chapter 6.

[jsm]

Plot of membership claimed by the Seventh-day Adventist Church

From 1863 to 2006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SDA_Membership.svg  

 

When the first seal was broken in heaven, John saw Jesus as a symbolic rider leading His people: “Clad in the armor of Christ's righteousness, the church is to enter upon her final conflict. ‘Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners’ (Song of Solomon 6:10), she is to go forth into all the world, conquering and to conquer.” PK 725.

“There will be a series of events revealing that God is master of the situation. The truth will be proclaimed in clear, unmistakable language…. Onward and still onward the work will advance until the whole earth shall have been warned, and then shall the end come.” 9T 96. 

That relatively peaceful start of the day of the Lord judgment events seems to have come quietly like a thief, 1 Thess. 5:1-6; 2 Peter 3:16; Matt. 24:36-44, and then increased in a major way with the unexpected ending of the Cold War in 1991, when the U.S.S.R. collapsed. The Iron Curtain was lifted with this peaceful surprise, and the gospel was more freely presented in all parts of the world; leading to dramatic increases in Seventh-day Adventist Church membership.

How does preaching the gospel tie in with the judgments of God? “The Lord God of heaven will not send upon the world His judgments for disobedience and transgression until He has sent His watchmen to give the warning.” 6T 19. (‘Conquering’ for Christ, as in Rev. 6:2). 

Then with the second seal in Rev. 6:3-4, God allows peace to be taken from the earth, with people killing each other; and we see those conditions increasing now, worldwide. In just a few moments nearly 3,000 were killed and over 6,000 injured in the 9/11/2001 surprise terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center Towers in New York City. World instability and confusion at all levels, with many being killed, has been escalating since that time. Leaders are saying, “The world is in chaos” with “spiraling catastrophes.”

What’s next? “The same spirit is seen today that is represented in Revelation 6:6-8 (the 3rd & 4th seal events). History is to be repeated. That which has been will be again. This spirit works to confuse and to perplex. Dissension will be seen in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and those who have not had a spirit to follow the light that God has given through His living oracles, through His appointed agencies, will become confused. Their judgment will reveal weakness. Disorder and strife and confusion will be seen in the church.” 20MR 199.

There’s famine in the 3rd seal period and more famine in the 4^th, plus killing by sword, pestilence, and wild beasts. God called those “My four severe Judgments,” Ezekiel 14:21, and He allows this while encouraging people to think about eternal values. But the evil ones will blame it all on God’s people, many of whom will be killed during the fifth seal period. CET 95.

“Laws enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath will bring about a national apostasy from the principles of republicanism upon which the government has been founded. The religion of the Papacy will be accepted by the rulers, and the law of God will be made void.  When the fifth seal was opened, John the Revelator in vision saw beneath the altar the company that were slain for the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ (also more will be killed at a later time). After this came the scenes described in the eighteenth of Revelation, when those who are faithful and true are called out from Babylon.” 20MR 14. This call may come during the seven trumpet periods of Revelation 8 through 11. “The trumpet is to give a certain sound. Clearly and distinctly the warning is to ring out: (Revelation 18:2-4 quoted).” 9T 149. The final battle for souls begins in Rev 6 and probation ends in 11:15. See Rev. 10:7.

The sixth seal is about extreme events in nature that lead people to hide while begging to be hidden from God’s wrath; but Rev. 15:1 says His wrath will not be complete until the seven last plagues of Rev. 16. Ellen White applied Rev. 5 to these last days, and then contrasts sixth seal events and people with the great multitudes of God’s people in Rev. 7:9-17 who will later be killed. “In these scriptures two parties are brought to view. One party (6^th seal) permitted themselves to be deceived and took sides with those with whom the Lord has a controversy. They misinterpreted the messages sent them and clothed themselves in robes of self-righteousness. Sin was not sinful in their eyes. They taught falsehood as truth, and by them many souls were led astray.” 9T 267-268.

When Jesus “had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.” Revelation 8:1. The book can then be opened, so why the silence?

“As the book was unrolled, all who looked upon it were filled with awe. There were no blanks in the book. There was space for no more writing.” 20MR 197.

So what about the millions of Christians living after Jesus takes the sealed scroll? Jesus gave the answer when He said the names of those who do not overcome will be blotted from the book of life (Rev. 3:5) leaving space for more; and those added will include the 144,000 who will be sealed and remain alive, plus a multitude of others who will fully accept Christ before probation closes; but they will not be ready for future trials, so God allows them to be killed. Rev. 7:9-17: 14:13. 

Throwing burning coals from the altar to the earth in Rev. 8:5 is a symbol of sins being blotted out, as in Isaiah 6:6-7. Then thunder, lightning, and an earthquake in Rev. 8:5 are symbols of the presence of God in the refreshing power of the Holy Spirit. Acts 3:19. These events take place when the 144,000 are being sealed, as described next. 

“Zechariah's [chapter 3] vision of Joshua and the Angel applies with peculiar force to the experience of God's people in the closing scenes of the great day of atonement. The remnant church will then be brought into great trial and distress…. But God has not forgotten. Nothing in this world is so dear to the heart of God as His church….

“As the people of God afflict their souls before Him, pleading for purity of heart, the command is given, ‘Take away the filthy garments,’ (sins are blotted out) and the encouraging words are spoken, ‘Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.’ Zechariah 3:4…. The despised remnant are clothed in glorious apparel, nevermore to be defiled by the corruptions of the world. Their names are retained in the Lamb's book of life, enrolled among the faithful of all ages….

“While Satan has been urging his accusations, holy angels, unseen, have been passing to and fro, placing upon the faithful ones the seal of the living God…. They sing the new song before the throne, that song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand which were redeemed from the earth…. ‘And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone that is written among the living in Jerusalem.’ Isaiah 4:2, 3.” PK 587-592.

The 144,000 will then respond as Isaiah did after his sins were blotted out: “I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.” Isaiah 6:7-8. This compares with the sounding of seven warning trumpets during difficult times before the close of probation in Rev. 11:15. God’s mysterious plan to save us then ends. Rev. 10:7. But an explanation of the seven trumpet periods is a topic for another study.

So now may God help us to understand, to always stand firm for the right while helping others, and to be ready when Jesus comes to take us to heaven. 

“But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 2 Timothy 3:1-7 nkjv.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hch]

17 hours ago, jsm said:

Judgment of the living is now in its early stages

 

JSM,

Is the evidence that you presented to verify your opening sentence in context?

The Investigative Judgment (IJ) began in 1844 when Daniel 8:14 met its fulfillment. It is called the Judgment HOUR according to Rev. 14

Notice the sequencing:

• The Judgment HOUR is in the First Angel's Message.
• Then follows the  Second Angel that states that Babylon is fallen.
• And the Third Angel that warns against taking the Mark of the Beast.

The First Angel's Message came before the Second.

The Three Angels' Messages are repeated in Rev 18:2 

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird...(5)  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

Notice the sequencing of the repetition of the messages:

• Babylon is fallen (comes before the announcement that)
• God remembers her iniquities (Judgment)

As the 1844 announcement of the IJ told the early Adventists that the Judgment of the dead had commenced, the 2013 announcement that  "her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities" is a past tense announcement that the Judgment Hour allotted to the living has ended.

The confirmation is self evident within the context of Revelation 13 to 18. And recent history shows us that  when Revelation 18's pronouncement was fulfilled, Pope Francis' endangered species light show used the Church in Rome depicted ST Peter's as a cage of unclean birds and creatures.

The HEALED papal beast has 7 heads. The healing began in 1929. The 7 heads are the popes from Pius XI to Benedict XVI.

Rev 17 explains that the heads are kings that are ALLOTTED AN HOUR: 5 are fallen (Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I) One is (John-Paul II. And one is to be for a short space (Benedict XVI)

How long is a short space. Less than 7 years.

John-Paul II died on 2 April 2005, but by Babylonian custom (Babylon is fallen) the king of Babylon ruled (according to the Gregorian Calendar) from 29 March (New year's Day) till 28 March the end of the year. Who ever was king of Babylon on 29 March got credit for the entire year until the following 28 March. Thus John-Paul II's reign continued after his death until 28 March 2006 and the time that Benedict ruled in that interim was his ascension year. According to Babylonian custom, Benedict XVI began his solo rule on 29 March 2006. He resigned effective 28 February 2013. One month and one day short of 7 years. That is the short space that Revelation 17 is explaining.

The 1929 restoration of the pope as the SOLO king of the papacy began in February and continued through the summer of 1929. By the Day of atonement 14 October 1929 the papacy had been restored to its kingship and it ended on 14 February 2013 when Benedict resigned. We now have 2 living popes. Francis I takes the retired Benedict into consultation frequently and Benedict XVI co-officiates at important papal functions. When Francis made John-Paul II a saint, Benedict was there. When Francis opened the special door in Rome, Benedict was the first man to follow Francis through the  door, etc. 

The period from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013 is exactly one HOUR based on a 1000 year day. The same is true of the period from 22 October 1844 to 22 February 1928. In the 22 October 1844 to 22 February 1928, the papacy was DEAD, which correlates with the Judgment of the DEAD. It was restored to life (alive) in 1929 and the period from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013 correlates with one prophetic hour based on a 1000 year day for the Judgment of the LIVING. 

As God announced the commencement of the IJ for the Judgment of the DEAD in Rev 14, He has announced the ending of the time allotted for the IJ of the LIVING in 2013. We are in the final sealing time and those who fail to study it to determine if the Scriptures are being rightly divided are placing  themselves in danger.

The Lord winks at our ignorance. But when LIGHT that is readily available is rejected, He warns us that He will destroy them that despise knowledge.

I'm only the messenger of the message that God called me to search out through Bible study from 1997 until now. I'm not infallible and as I continue to study, my understanding matures. If we follow the LIGHT we will not be in darkness. My current study is in THE DAY DAWNS. Those who contact me through a PM, can read it in context and decide for themselves. Those who have made up their minds that they have all the truth that they need will be satisfied with what they think they know.

[jsm]

My three recent posts should be read in order, and they are just an outline to encourage further study. Remember that Revelation is just ONE flowing prophecy, and not several as in Daniel. See Revelation  22:7, 10, 18-19. And this, “As we near the close of this world's history, the prophecies relating to the last days especially demand our study. The last book of the New Testament scriptures is full of truth that we need to understand. Satan has blinded the minds of many, so that they have been glad of any excuse for not making the Revelation their study. But Christ through His servant John has here declared what shall be in the last days, and He says, ‘Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein.’ Revelation 1:3.” Christ Object Lessons 133.

 

Add this invitation and warning at the end of the prophecy: “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:17-19. So, “None should become discouraged in the study of the Revelation because of its apparently mystical symbols. ‘If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not.’ James 1:5.” Education 191.

 

So don’t let scholars add to or take away the clear end-time meaning of this prophecy by giving their own interpretations of the clear straight progression through the seven churches, followed by seven seal period events, then seven trumpet period events, ending with seven seal events before Jesus comes.

 

Third century writer Victorinus of Pettau was among the first to interpret the Revelation prophecy, and he placed the seven churches only in the first century, with the seven seal events covering the Christian era from that time. Many different interpretations have followed; and some were very helpful in their time, including the recapitulation theory for seals and trumpets as the 1844 judgment day approached. But it is now time for each one to prayerfully study the prophecy as it applies to our times. I could say much more, but that would not be appropriate here. Get a modern version like the New American Standard Bible and, forgetting past interpretations, ask God’s help in applying it to our times.

 

Do the seal periods just apply to the church? 1. Christ leads His people “conquering and to conquer.” 2. Peace is taken “from THE EARTH” with people killing each other. (Happening now?). 3. Famine. 4. one-fourth of people on “the earth” killed. 5. People slain for the Word of God.. 6. Giant earthquake plus signs in the heavens, making many hide. 7. Silence in heaven and angels giving warning trumpets to sound before probation closes in Rev 11:15. See 10:7. 

 

[hch]

JSM,

you might want to begin a thread on the seals, etc.?

[jsm]

Good suggestion hch, and I agree that more understanding is needed by all; but reject your ideas about the pope and end of probation. Not in the Bible. Many here object to EGW helpful references, so I will start fresh just from the Bible, and that will take a little time.