Why was Jesus baptized?

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Your point re 40 yrs is painfully moot because I already mentioned the fact that the book of John was not written by John the baptist and that it was the Apostle John giving testimony about something from the past.

I was talking about the 40 days that Jesus spent in the wilderness after his baptism.as the three gospel records clearly state.

I mentioned another useful reference would be A Harmony of the Gospels. I have two of these. The first is rather simple, as it has the four gospel records in parallel columns and does not have any additional comments except for some headings and a few maps. Nevertheless it does show what the editor considered to be the sequence.

Thus the titles and references are:

3. Jesus baptised by John Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:8-11 and Luke 3:21-23 in parallel

4. Jesus’ temptation in the wilderness Matthew 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13 and Luke 4:1-13 in parallel

5. Jesus wins his first disciples John 1:29-51

Another harmony is “A New Harmony of the Gospels” by Albert Cassel Wieand 1950. This book has much more notes but the sequence is the same as in the above. The note in the margin against Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11 and Luke 3:23 is “After the 40 days, Jesus returned again to John at the Jordan” and refers the reader to John 1:29.

Another aspect concerning John the Baptist is that Jesus states that John the Baptist was the greatest of the prophets.

Luke 7:28 (KJV):  For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Yet we do not have much record of his teaching. By comparison with Isaiah, we are impressed by the full range of Isaiah’s prophecies covering 66 chapters.

Kind regards Trevor

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

 

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I know all that stuff but none of it voids the fact that John said "I saw the Lamb of God" walking towards me" to be baptized and that means he recognized Jesus atleast to look at him. He knew who he was baptising

John the Baptist says “Behold the Lamb of God” in John 1:29, but he says this at least 40 days after the baptism of Jesus, not before the baptism as you continue to suggest. Please consider that the temptation in the wilderness for 40 days was between these two events.

 

Another interesting insight into the preaching of John the Baptist is found in the following, and in some way this explains what I mentioned in my previous Post concerning the greatness of John the Baptist and yet the scarcity in the record of all that he preached:

John 10:39-42 (KJV): 39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand, 40  And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41  And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42  And many believed on him there.

We have a few records of what John the Baptist stated concerning Jesus, but this indicates that in total John must have mentioned many more things about Jesus, of which we have no direct record.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

6 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Trevor

I know all that stuff but none of it voids the fact that John said "I saw the Lamb of God" walking towards me" to be baptized and that means he recognized Jesus atleast to look at him. He knew who he was baptising

I don't get the "recognition" from the words John said.  If I were speaking of something that happened in the past, I could say, (thinking back) "I saw John walking towards me."  I can use his name NOW, but THEN I did not "know" him. 

Remember how John "leapt" in his mother's womb, as Mary approached - carrying Jesus in her womb.  That was a sort of "recognition".   I wonder if that sort of "recognition" carried over into adulthood, regardless of whether the two had had any contact during their lives. 

[8thdaypriest]

22 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Who John was baptising was now going to take things to the next level; Jesus would now begin to more fully carry out His mission after the example of baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit, exactly as needed by the people. (John 1:33). It was for the purpose of providing, through steps outlined in scripture, the Holy Spirit as “Another Comforter;” (John 14:16)” that this same Jesus was submitted to the rite of baptism

Guess you know I disagree with your assumption here.  Baptism "in the name of the Holy Spirit" ?   Only if you believe that Matthew 28:19 was not altered, some time after the Council of Nicea.  I believe it WAS changed - altered by someone zealous to prove a Trinity.  There are at least six examples of the Disciples baptizing "in the name of" Jesus.   Either they got the instruction wrong, or the text of Matthew 28:19 was altered. 

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I definitely disagree on this comment. I do support the trinity doctrine, but even I would never use this text to "prove" anything about "The Trinity."  In the context I used it, I was talking only about the Holy Spirit, in keeping with the text itself.

Thanks Wanderer.  Yes.  You believe the Holy Spirit anointed Jesus (with) "Himself".  

I believe God the Father anointed His Son, WITH His own Spirit (with Himself essentially).  Jesus did say, "the Father who dwells in me" (John 14:10) and "You Father are in me" (John 17:21).  

There is a difference.    I realize there are several threads on the Trinity doctrine.  Sorry for going off TOPIC, but I felt I needed to comment on the idea that Jesus' baptism prepared the way for worship of a third divine being.  I don't think John would have understood the anointing in that way.  

Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. "

[8thdaypriest]

50 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

The only problem with this, is that that is NOT what I said. Maybe, if I am mistaken, you could show us what post I said that in..

Jesus baptism paved the way for all that He did in His ministry, and at one point, that did involve what Jesus called *another Comforter.*  I do not wish to discuss the trinity here, only to clarify my comment. Perhaps, it is not a great idea to tell me what I believe. It might bear more fruit if one were to just ask me.

Sorry Wanderer.   Next time I will write something like,  "Your view SEEMS to be (please correct where wrong)" or "You SEEM to believe".   That way it won't look like I'm quoting you.

I believe the "another Comforter" would be Jesus glorified - His glorified self.  That is WHY He had to "go away" before that Comforter could be manifest.  He did refer to His future glorified self in third person - as "He" - more than once.  And in context He did say, "I will not leave you orphans.  I will come to you."  "I am with you always."  "I am there in the midst of you."   If "the last Adam was made a life giving spirit" (1Cor. 15:45) - what Spirit was that? 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 8thdaypriest,

On 4/6/2018 at 10:38 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Only if you believe that Matthew 28:19 was not altered, some time after the Council of Nicea.  I believe it WAS changed - altered by someone zealous to prove a Trinity.  There are at least six examples of the Disciples baptizing "in the name of" Jesus.   Either they got the instruction wrong, or the text of Matthew 28:19 was altered. 

I suggest that there is no difficulty with this verse as God the Father has one Name, Yahweh as clearly revealed in Exodus 3:14. God’s Name is also revealed through His power, the Holy Spirit, and also in and through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

That Jesus is a revelation of Yahweh is seen in the prophecy concerning the preaching of John the Baptist.

Isaiah 40:3-8 (KJV): 3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Yahweh is revealed in and through Jesus, who is the Word of God, the Son of God. Jesus revealed the glory of the Father as John the Apostle states in John 1:14, as Jesus was full of grace and truth. This Word of God is God the Father’s spoken word and also the wisdom and purpose behind that spoken word.

I briefly mentioned how John the Baptist applied Isaiah 40: 4 in Luke 3:10-14. Peter, who may well have been initially a disciple of John the Baptist, takes up the words of Isaiah 40:6-8 and expounds them and applies them to us and the gospel message, the word of God:

1 Peter 1:22–25 (KJV): 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Kind regards Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

11 hours ago, TrevorL said:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Interesting that we are "born again" BY "the Word of God".   Jesus Christ IS "the Word" and He baptizes us WITH the Holy Spirit. 

Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33)

All four Gospel writers quote this statement by John the Baptist, who was quoting what he had heard from God - that Jesus is the one who would baptize WITH the Holy Spirit. 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 8thdaypriest,

 

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Interesting that we are "born again" BY "the Word of God".   Jesus Christ IS "the Word" and He baptizes us WITH the Holy Spirit. 

In the context of 1 Peter, the Word of God is the Gospel, and the baptism is by water:

1 Peter 1:22–25 (KJV): 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

Initially this Word proceeds out of the mouth of God the Father:

Isaiah 55:9-11 (KJV): 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10  For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Jesus has become the result of this Word spoken by God the Father, he is the substance, the centre of the Gospel, he is the Word made flesh.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[debbym]

I have not been following this thread, but have been wanting to comment in answer to the question.  I always thought Jesus was baptized because he fulfilled all righteousness.  He fully identified with us.  He repented of sin's that were not His. He died for sin's that were not His, he was baptized for the condition of sinfulness that was not His.  Since he was perfect, to be Baptized was a powerful step in becoming our redeemer.  Then to go to the desert was another great step.  There He was tested, and was proven victorious  over sins, that were not His, appetite, presumption, and love of  power and pride.  Ultimately he was punished and attacked, persecuted by the enemy,  hated because he would not yield to the self styled ruler of this world.  Finally he Laid down his life and brought and end to sin in his human heart,  bringing  all sin, that was not his, to death in His own heart forever.

It was the death knell to the enemy foreshadowed in Baptism that the enemy challenged in the desert.   If he could defeat Christ he hoped to not have to die. The sentence  upon sin was pronounced and carried out,  and the death penalty will now unfold in time on all sin throughout the entire universe till it is completely clean.  We can say. Lord let sin die in my heart today, and Christ live in me every day.

[8thdaypriest]

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."  To FULFILL the LAW. 

Matthew 3:15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."

The Law instructs one in "righteousness". 

Jesus said He came "to fulfill" the Law.  What part of the Law specified baptism, or washing in water? 

The only Old Testament command for any human beings to be "washed" was addressed to:

1. Leviticus 8 - those to be consecrated as priests,  

2.  Leviticus 16:4 and 16 - the High Priest was to wash before and after the rites of atonement,

3.  Numbers 19 - The priest who offered the Red Heifer, and the priest who disposed of the ashes - both were to wash their clothes and bathe themselves in water before coming into the camp.

4.  All Israelites in preparation for their appearance before the LORD at the foot of Sinai

      The ritual baths at Jerusalem were for such cleansing, before one appeared before the LORD.

5.  Leviticus  Chapter 15 - anyone who had a bodily discharge of any kind - including the sex act (rendering him/her unclean), once the discharge ceased, was to wash his/her body in water .

6.  Leviticus Cpt 19 - Anyone who had touched a dead body was to be sprinkled with with water, to which the ashes of the Red Heifer had been added, and then "wash in water". 

7.  The Syrian was instructed to "immerse" himself in the River Jordan 7 times, to be cleansed of Leprosy.

Proselyte baptism was practiced during the first century as part of Judaism, but the proselyte immersed himself - in the presence of 2 men learned in the Law.  (Physical circumcision was also part of the process.)  But where was the Scriptural command to do this?   And Jesus was NOT a Gentile proselyte.  

WHY then was John baptizing?   He was sent to announce the coming of the greater One, who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire.   John was preaching a "judgment day" message.  John was preparing the people for judgment, and to meet God.  John's "baptism unto repentance" - later became the baptism "into Christ Jesus", and became the baptism followed by the baptism of the Spirit. 

I got the feeling that baptism of Christ believers, actually BEGAN with John's baptism.   But that does NOT explain why Jesus was baptized.   How could Jesus have become "unclean"?  If He touched a dead body, that body would come back to life.  If He touched disease - it disappeared. 

I keep coming back to the consecration for priests - Christ as High Priest and believers as "priests of God and of Christ". 

 

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 8thdaypriest,

 

3 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

But that does NOT explain why Jesus was baptized.   How could Jesus have become "unclean"? 

I agree, Jesus was not unclean. There is more to baptism than washing and cleansing. Baptism teaches the need to put to death the flesh with its affections and lusts, and a resurrection to live unto God. Jesus fully shared our nature, and Jesus as the captain of our salvation leads the way towards God.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

14 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

There are approximately 700 different names for members of The Godhead, in the Bible.

I am not sure of the history of the term “Godhead”, but as I believe that there is only one God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then I find your comment “members of the Godhead” either obscure or wrong.

Kind regards Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I am thinking that this needs to be repeated once more. It speaks very well to the OP question.

Your repeated section, sounds very much like Mrs White's writing.  Could you give the reference or references.

[8thdaypriest]

I was looking for evidence from Scripture, concerning specific commands for water immersion.  Thought they might give insight as to reason Christ came for baptism. 

[B/W Photodude]

On 4/9/2018 at 1:58 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I was looking for evidence from Scripture, concerning specific commands for water immersion.  Thought they might give insight as to reason Christ came for baptism. 

Every time Scripture uses the word baptism it is a command for water immersion!

Our word "baptize" is translated from the original Greek word "baptizo", which means to immerse. "Baptizo" does not mean sprinkle or pour. If our Lord had wanted people to be sprinkled, he would have inspired the New Testament writers to use the Greek word "rhantizo".  If our Lord wanted people to be poured He would have inspired New Testament writers to use the Greek word "katacheo".  But he didn't, so "baptizo" was used, which can only mean to immerse.

http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-19-baptism-is-immersion.htm

You may also wish to research into "mikvah" which was the predecessor to baptism. The mikvah is still a part of Jewish life today. The "rules" of mikvah require only water to be used.

[8thdaypriest]

I did some research into the original appearance of "pouring" instead of immersion.  It seems there was a severe drought about 70 years after Jesus died, and in Antioch there were many people desiring baptism (immersion).  There just was no water, so rather than put people off, the elders of the growing church in that city, allowed "pouring" in the name of Christ.  (Perhaps they followed up later with immersion.)  In those days, life was precarious.  One never knew when he/she might be killed (by persecution) or die of disease or starvation, etc. etc.  The converts wanted to know they belonged to Jesus.   Unfortunately - when the drought broke, the elders continued with the "pouring". 

[Gregory Matthews]

A recent SDA article addresses the issue of baptism as related to some other issues.  It does address briefly questions related to the baptism of Jesus.  For that  reason, I list the URL that takes you to that article:

 

https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/(%2362)1.pdf?utm_source=All+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f89562f1fa-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_12&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_efe1c280cb-f89562f1fa-150218681

 

[CoAspen]

Most interesting!

[8thdaypriest]

Very good article.  Thanks Gregory.