Holy Spirit Withdrawn from earth

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel has made some interesting comments related to certain publications of EGW material in the early days of the SDA Church.  I will comment on some aspects of the issues that she raises as I believe that a lot of confusion as well as ignorance of certain basic facts exist today.

An Appeal to Mothers (AM) Is a 63 page, 1864 publication written by Ellen G. White.

A Solemn Appeal (SA) is a 1870 publication which has been re-printed, in part in a 2010 publication.  This 2010 edition, as I understand it, does not contain much of the material that was published in the 1870 edition, at lest as the 2010 edition exists on the Internet.  This book in unique as to EGW books in that it was edited by James White.  While it did contain material that was written by EGW, it contained much that was written by other authors.  In addition, those authors were sometimes not identified when they were cited.  The result of this, in that in reading this book, one often can not be certain as to who the author was that James White was citing and, in addition, James White did not always quote people directly.  He, at times, cited them in words of his own choice.  A few of the authors that James White cited include:  A Dr. Clarke, Sylvester Graham, W.D. Woodbridge, Mr. Todd, Mrs. Grove, Margaret Prior.  NOTE:  I have not begun to list all of the known authors and I question whether we actually know all of the people cited by James White.

The points that I am making include:

*  When it comes to SA, we do not know exactly what EGW wrote and what others wrote as to the 1870 publication.  I believe that the 2010 EGW Estate publication may not fully identify what she wrote.

*  We should not confuse the two publications, SA and AM, as they are two separate publications with major differences.

In her post, Rachel has assumed that EGWs use of the term "self-abuse" equates to what we call masturbation today.  This is an important assumption attached to this issue.  I will suggest that that the following may be worthy of consideration:

*  Perhaps in 1870, self-abuse was a common term for what we call masturbation today?  In any case this question if a valid one.

*  If the above is true, One might (?) reasonably assume that EGW also did the same.

*  However, this assumption has been challenged by a few who take an in-depth look at SA, as well as what EGW actually said when she used the term "self-abuse" and believe that she meant something else.    As I look at the evidence, I believe that this position has some merit.  But, I am not willing to rule out the idea that in some cases when she used the term "self-abuse" me referenced masturbation.  Perhaps, she used that  term in more than one way.

*  Now the issue is  raised as to whether or not EGWs views as to masturbation were correct in light of present clinical knowledge.  I do not believe that we have to consider EGW correct in every aspect of her understanding of clinical medicine, astronomy and other subjects of interest to people in our society today.   EGW clearly taught that she was not infallible, as only God was such.

 

In summation:  The issues involved here are complex and often not as simple as some might make them to be.

 

A 99 page edition of the 1870 A Solemn Appeal may be read at:

http://www.adventpioneerbooks.com/Text/SolemnAppeaL.pdf

 

NOTE:  I suspect that there may be other editions of SA available that have a different number of pages.  In addition, I find the 2010 edition to be confusing which may need more study on my part.

[JoeMo]

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

alrighty. Should we consider the Holy Spirit to already be withdrawn from some places because of some of the terrible things going on Many people now have no way out, and no hope left.

Interesting question.  If you are referring to - for example - the Middle East, I could see how believers there would be pretty sure that the Great Tribulation is upon them. But the Holy Spirit withdrawn wholesale from everyone in the region?  I think not.  I know of missionaries from many denominations (including SDA's) that have covert ministries in places like Iran, Pakistan, and Syria. A majority of Islamic concerts come to Jesus because they have met Him in dreams and visions.  Sounds like an active Holy Spirit to me!  I do believe that more and more people all over the planet are grieving away the HS; so in that sense, maybe it is being withdrawn.

[8thdaypriest]

10 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I do believe that more and more people all over the planet are grieving away the HS; so in that sense, maybe it is being withdrawn.

Sounds like the HS is withdrawn slowly - one person at a time.  That seems very plausible to me.  But when does it reach "critical mass" - "cup is full"?  What decides this point?   There were babies and young children in the cities that Joshua destroyed. 

My own belief is that Satan would have claimed some right of control, over these children.   Bringing such children into the camp of Israel would have brought the Curse with them.   Doesn't mean these children will remain forever un-save-able.   They can be resurrected at the 8th millennium with "the rest of the dead" (all who lived and died in ignorance of the true God and Christ).  At that time, Christ will have dominion over all the earth, (and everything/every one  on the earth).   Curses carried from generation to generation - a sort of ownership claimed by Satan - will no longer apply.   At that time each resurrected individual will have the opportunity to choose whom he will serve. 

Those resurrected to judgment and execution at the Second Coming - already chose to serve The Evil One.

I think Daniel 12:7 gives the answer. 

Daniel 12:7 "Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." (NKJ)

What would it mean to "shatter" "the power of the holy people" ??    How do they stop someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit?   The only ways I can think of, are imprisonment and/or death.   All the disciples except John, were martyred.   Some were imprisoned - all in an effort to silence them.  

It seems to me, that the moment when the LAST WITNESS is killed or is in solitary confinement - THAT is when it's over (for this age).

Jeremiah - the only/last "witness" for the LORD, was thrown into a pit to die.  He was finally pulled out, just as Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians.    

Revelation describes the last "two witnesses".  They are martyred, then resurrected by a "voice" from Heaven, and "they ascended to heaven in a cloud".   I believe this is the Second Coming, because "in the same hour there was a great earthquake" (the one that splits the Mount of Olives) and the 7th trumpet sounds. (Read Rev 11:11-15 without a chapter break.) 

The "two witnesses" are not just two men.  I believe they will be/are Smyrna and Philadelphia (the church of the martyrs and the church of brotherly love), the last two lamps on the Lamp Stand of the heavenly Tabernacle, depicted in the vision of John.