Universalism- basic tenants

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

rather than someone trying to beat the other side and win.

Wasn't even in my head David.  Interesting that you would think that.

It's not about winning.   My website received some 25,000 visitors this last month.   This makes me feel terribly responsible to present what is true.  I would be overwhelmed had I not experienced the leading of Christ many times, in my search for what is true.   I am constantly, daily, reviewing the studies looking for better ways to present the arguments.  The work is pretty much consuming.  It is "my calling".   If I ask for help and input from folks at the forum, I am very serious. 

On the home page of the website I say clearly that my presentations are my opinion, based upon my study.  I never say that folks will be saved or lost because they agree with me.   I present my understanding (at the present time) of where the weight of the evidence falls.   

My understanding can change if I see something I had not previously understood.   

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

On 9/19/2018 at 4:15 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

"Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."  (NKJ)  They say that "all things" must include all created sentient beings.  

well, anyone who states it like this is really only telling half of the truth. Its not that what they are saying is "wrong," but that they are missing out on the rest of the story. "All things" being made new can only happen when one is IN CHRIST,"

if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (2 Cor 5:17, MKJV)

Great comment!  

God "will make all things new" FOR those who are "in Christ".  

[JoeMo]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

we are forced into salvation if we do not "decide" for Jesus

Call me dense, but I don't understand this part of your comment.

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I hate the pattern so many in the church have fallen into where they just keep clubbing people with the doctrines, and completely losing sight of their purpose and proper use thereof.

I'm sure glad the SDA Church I go to doesn't do that.

[8thdaypriest]

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I did try to explain that my comment was NOT personal, I made a fair point that others may benefit from. It is, of course, your choice to decide otherwise

If 2 people, presently hold different views of Bible doctrines, or different interpretations of Bible verses - and they "discuss" their views like we do here on the forum, what turns a study "discussion" into a "contest" ?

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

22 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

 I am constantly, daily, reviewing the studies looking for better ways to present the arguments.  The work is pretty much consuming.  It is "my calling".   If I ask for help and input from folks at the forum, I am very serious. 

Amen, Rachel.  You are one of the best-studied and articulate believers I have ever met.  No; I don't agree with 100% of the stuff on your website; but I do agree with over 90% of what I've read (you still need to get Genesis 6 right! ?).  Over the years, I have witnessed your views change as you study and discuss. I also find it interesting that your views and mine have pretty much evolved in the same direction independently of one another.  For me, that's confirmation that maybe we're on to something.

I think that many here would agree.  Keep it up, sister!

Getting back to universalism. here is another text that is used to support their views: "Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter3:9) I think they take this verse out of context.

They will also couple John 3:16 with verses like Romans 14:11 ("It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”) Using the logic that if everyone believes, everyone is saved! I still don't know what Universalists do with those who choose not to be saved.

[8thdaypriest]

They say that God's desire or will, cannot fail to be accomplished.  God wants everyone to be saved - therefore they will.  

I believe God's desire is subverted to the FREE WILL He has allowed for human beings.  He will not violate our will.  

Michele stated outright, that she believes we do NOT HAVE free will.  We cannot resist the will of God, and so everyone will eventually be drawn to Christ, and will surrender.  (How can one surrender - an act of the will - if he has no free will?)  

 I told her, if that is true then our God is a monster.  He knew all the time, that HE was going to override FREE WILL.  He should have done that - in the first place - and skipped all the PAIN!