Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 27, 2006 Members Posted May 27, 2006 where do we go from here? humanity is being ravaged by disease doctors are powerless against it pollution is everywhere men and women die daily in senseless ethnic conflicts homelessness is rampant people can't read children are being killed in the streets the year is 1350 it was the beginning of the Renaissance. What is different now? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators Gerr Posted May 27, 2006 Moderators Posted May 27, 2006 [:"red"]"But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows [lit. birth pangs - margin]. Mk 13:5-8 NKJ. [/] As someone said, the labor pains are now so frequent that delivery is imminent. [:"red"]"And the gospel must first be preached to all nations." Mk 13:10 NKJ. "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Mt 24:14 NKJ. [/] With all the telecommunications available today, I believe we are on the verge of seeing this fulfilled. We are also seeing Protestantism stretching its arm "across the gulf" to the RCC. And EGW said that the last movements will be rapid ones. Yep, I believe that delivery will take place soon. Gerry Quote
Guest Posted May 27, 2006 Posted May 27, 2006 Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet. The end of time began right after Jesus ascended to heaven... Paul believed he was living in the last days. He said this: Heb 1:1-2 (1) God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, so we have been in the "end of time" for some time... however it is a non-issue... the issue is whether or not you have a relationship with Him so that whenever things wrap up, you are ready to see Him... the emphasis should be on him, not on whatever is happening around us... btjm... Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 28, 2006 Author Members Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> so we have been in the "end of time" for some time... however it is a non-issue... the issue is whether or not you have a relationship with Him so that whenever things wrap up, you are ready to see Him... the emphasis should be on him, not on whatever is happening around us... btjm... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> what does btjm mean?? I don't think the end of time is a non-issue. The whole last book of the Bible is about it, isnt it? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Guest Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> so we have been in the "end of time" for some time... however it is a non-issue... the issue is whether or not you have a relationship with Him so that whenever things wrap up, you are ready to see Him... the emphasis should be on him, not on whatever is happening around us... btjm... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> what does btjm mean?? I don't think the end of time is a non-issue. The whole last book of the Bible is about it, isnt it? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> btjm = but that's just me... The last book of the bible is about Jesus, and his effort to rescue all who will be rescued.... now some have emphasized the events, but the book is about Jesus... Rev 1:1 A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass. And He signified it by sending His angel to His servant John, Quote
Neil D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Right on, Clayborn! It ain't about the Saturday/sunday issue...It's about JEsus...It' isn't about righteousness by faith, but it IS about Jesus...It isn't about the sanctuary, but IT IS ABOUT JESUS!!!!! Have you talk with Him? MORE IMPORTANT, have you LISTEN TO HIM???? And have you done what He has impressed you with today???? That is having a relationship with Jesus... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 28, 2006 Author Members Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ... having a relationship with Jesus... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> This is a phrase that I hear bandied about quite a lot. And it is just as nebulous to me now as when I first heard it. How does one have a human relationship with Someone you can not see, cannot hear, cannot touch? Someone who's only source of information and communication to you is through an inner Spirit and an ancient Book? (please don't throw rocks at me - I'm trying very hard not to be snarky <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Neil D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Let me repeat myself- </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Have you talk with Him? MORE IMPORTANT, have you LISTEN TO HIM???? And have you done what He has impressed you with today???? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> That is having a relationship with Jesus... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 28, 2006 Author Members Posted May 28, 2006 That wasn't helpful. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_rolleyes.gif[/] Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Planey Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Pam, I think I know how you feel. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> How does one have a human relationship with Someone you can not see, cannot hear, cannot touch? Someone who's only source of information and communication to you is through an inner Spirit and an ancient Book? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I have often thought this. I read the Bible, and get some ideas. Then I read what another person wrote about the same thing I have just read and they appear to have got the diametrically opposite idea. ????? If you just read what people write on Club Adventist it will be enough to make you absurdly schizophrenic. Gerry will tell you one thing, Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Gregory will tell you something which sounds correct and reasonable but then Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Ben will inform you that the Law is meaningless and has been abolished ("just read for yourself") and Robert will vehemently disagree with him, LHC will post some Scripture for you which may or may not been relevant to your question and Robert will be puzzled but will probably think that he disagrees vehemently with him but will not be sure... You get my drift. And that is only here on CA. Add in the rest of Christendom and the whole thing is multiplied ad infinitum. This "relationship with Jesus" thing. People say "just consider what Jesus would have done/would want you to do." So you say "How do you knoe wJwhd/wwytd?" and you will get a veritable spectrum of answers as each person rides his own donkey/pushes his own barrow. Not helpful. For a God who never changes and who always loves us with an unbelievably deep love and wants the best for us, He has not chosen to make His criteria very clear. Or has He? Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 28, 2006 Author Members Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry will tell you one thing, Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Gregory will tell you something which sounds correct and reasonable but then Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Ben will inform you that the Law is meaningless and has been abolished ("just read for yourself") and Robert will vehemently disagree with him, LHC will post some Scripture for you which may or may not been relevant to your question and Robert will be puzzled but will probably think that he disagrees vehemently with him but will not be sure... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/laughhard.gif" alt="" /> egads, that was funny! </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> For a God who never changes and who always loves us with an unbelievably deep love and wants the best for us, He has not chosen to make His criteria very clear. Or has He? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I need to think about that... You are very perceptive. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Pockey Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> How does one have a human relationship with Someone you can not see, cannot hear, cannot touch? Someone who's only source of information and communication to you is through an inner Spirit and an ancient Book? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Great question. I believe there is a third source of information and communication besides the Spirit and the Bible, and that's through people. From my experience, things that are impossible for us are possible for Him. And you ask a very important question, because my belief is that salvation means a relationship with Jesus. The reason I believe this is found in Matthew 25:1-13, the parable of the 10 virgins. Those who were not allowed into the wedding, the Lord said "I do not know you." God wants to know us, and for us to know Him. And to me, that means a relationship. So how can we have a relationship with Him? Personally I have discovered that by spending time daily with Him, through prayer and reading His word, I've been able to develop a relationship with Him. Just as with any human friend, we can have a relationship with Him by spending time with Him. He speaks to us through His word! For a wonderful perspective on how God speaks to us through His word, check out: http://www.forestlakechurch.org/Library/media.asp and click back to "Learning to Listen to God" from 1/15/05. I hope this was helpful. Quote
Guest Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> This is a phrase that I hear bandied about quite a lot. And it is just as nebulous to me now as when I first heard it. How does one have a human relationship with Someone you can not see, cannot hear, cannot touch? Someone who's only source of information and communication to you is through an inner Spirit and an ancient Book? (please don't throw rocks at me - I'm trying very hard not to be snarky <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">good question... and one that only you can find the answer to. Let me suggest a great book, its called The Sacred Romance by Curtis and Eldredge... it deals with this very question. I guarantee if you take the time to read it, you will get some insight into how God wants to have a relationship with us..... i would lend you my copy, except I let someone borrow it, and they have yet to return it.... lol (3 yrs ago) Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted May 28, 2006 Moderators Posted May 28, 2006 "How to make Christianity real" or "How to know God" by Morris Venden" (same book different title) is a great book that gives a simple straight forward path to developing a ralationship with God. I read it in my early 20's and it was just what I needed. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
David Koot Posted May 30, 2006 Posted May 30, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> The end of time began right after Jesus ascended to heaven <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> What do you do with Dan. 12:4? Or, for that matter, the antitypical day of atonement, which, consistent with the visual aid, did not begin until the 'end times'? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 30, 2006 Moderators Posted May 30, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"] I don't know if you are married or not, or whether you have children or not. You might want to find out about labor contractions. [/] </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> so we have been in the "end of time" for some time... however it is a non-issue... the issue is whether or not you have a relationship with Him so that whenever things wrap up, you are ready to see Him... the emphasis should be on him, not on whatever is happening around us... btjm... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]Non-issue? IMHO, this is a lame rationalization of why Jesus has not yet appeared. If the Groom is not coming for His Bride soon, the "relationship" would have absolutely no meaning for me whatsoever. The Lord repeatedly warned us to - "Watch..." He also said, "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Lk 21:28 NKJ. The signs are ABOUT Him! The event of the Second Coming itself is ABOUT Him![/] Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 30, 2006 Moderators Posted May 30, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry will tell you one thing, Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Gregory will tell you something which sounds correct and reasonable but then Robert will vehemently disagree with it, Ben will inform you that the Law is meaningless and has been abolished ("just read for yourself") and Robert will vehemently disagree with him, LHC will post some Scripture for you which may or may not been relevant to your question and Robert will be puzzled but will probably think that he disagrees vehemently with him but will not be sure... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/laughhard.gif" alt="" /> egads, that was funny! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]That's precisely why we should study the Word, and like the Bereans, examine whether obedience is no longer required as Robert says, or whether the law is no longer applicable to the Christian as Ben asserts, or whatever the teaching maybe, see whether it squares with what the Bible says or not. [/] Gerry Quote
Guest Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"] I don't know if you are married or not, or whether you have children or not. You might want to find out about labor contractions. [/] </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> so we have been in the "end of time" for some time... however it is a non-issue... the issue is whether or not you have a relationship with Him so that whenever things wrap up, you are ready to see Him... the emphasis should be on him, not on whatever is happening around us... btjm... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]Non-issue? IMHO, this is a lame rationalization of why Jesus has not yet appeared. If the Groom is not coming for His Bride soon, the "relationship" would have absolutely no meaning for me whatsoever. The Lord repeatedly warned us to - "Watch..." He also said, "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Lk 21:28 NKJ. The signs are ABOUT Him! The event of the Second Coming itself is ABOUT Him![/] Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">I am married, and have two kids... and I know that when my wife first started having contractions the baby was not ready to come..... thank you for suggesting that my comment was lame... I don't agree with yours either... if you are in a relationship, whenever they arrive you are ready and expecting... Quote
Kountzer Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 Jesus' return is the end of times. The 2 can't be separated, no matter how hard the church haters try to. Jesus 2nd return is mentioned all through the bible OT and NT. Having a relationship with Christ and studying prophecy are not mutually exclusive activities. The prophecies are about Him. Also, I don't think posting 10,000 + posts that mostly gripe and criticize the church you attend is indicative of having a relationship with Christ. btjmo DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 31, 2006 Author Members Posted May 31, 2006 someone... please - take away the handbags []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/handbags.gif[/] Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Guest Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Jesus' return is the end of times. The 2 can't be separated, no matter how hard the church haters try to. Jesus 2nd return is mentioned all through the bible OT and NT. Having a relationship with Christ and studying prophecy are not mutually exclusive activities. The prophecies are about Him. Also, I don't think posting 10,000 + posts that mostly gripe and criticize the church you attend is indicative of having a relationship with Christ. btjmo DB <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">thank you for your thoughts.... the question was are we in the end times... the bible tells us that we have been in the end times since Jesus' ascension to heaven... now what are you talking about? The issue is since we are in the end times how should we be living? In a relationship with him we live as though we expect his return ay any time.... that is what I am talking about.... there is no hate there, that is simple reality....likewise while interesting, people don't need prophecy necessarily to have a relationship with God... The Jews studied the prophecies and didn't recognize Jesus when he was right in their midst... that speaks volumes... nice to see DB that you are consistent where ever you happen to post... Quote
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted May 31, 2006 Moderators Posted May 31, 2006 Re: "Gregory will tell you something which sounds correct and reasonable. . . " Thanks for the compliment. It is nice to know that one person thinks that I am reasonable, at least sometimes. Quote Gregory
Moderators Gerr Posted May 31, 2006 Moderators Posted May 31, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">I am married, and have two kids... and I know that when my wife first started having contractions the baby was not ready to come..... thank you for suggesting that my comment was lame... I don't agree with yours either... if you are in a relationship, whenever they arrive you are ready and expecting... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]I didn't/don't mean to offend you. It's just that I am up to here with this "relationship" theology with the seeming exclusion of other issues. Of course I firmly believe in relationship. The Bride anxiously expecting and looking for signs that the Groom is soon to appear presumes an intimate relationship. The Bride has not a care in the world about a stranger. But as she sees the wedding day getting closer and closer, she gets ever more busy getting herself ready for the Big Day! [/] Gerry Quote
Guest Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">I am married, and have two kids... and I know that when my wife first started having contractions the baby was not ready to come..... thank you for suggesting that my comment was lame... I don't agree with yours either... if you are in a relationship, whenever they arrive you are ready and expecting... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]I didn't/don't mean to offend you. It's just that I am up to here with this "relationship" theology with the seeming exclusion of other issues. Of course I firmly believe in relationship. The Bride anxiously expecting and looking for signs that the Groom is soon to appear presumes an intimate relationship. The Bride has not a care in the world about a stranger. But as she sees the wedding day getting closer and closer, she gets ever more busy getting herself ready for the Big Day! [/] Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">we are in agreement, and I wasn't offended... I think I am coming from the other direction i.e. everything being emphasized but a relationship... so I think we are more on the same page than our initial exchange suggests.... nice to meet you by the way... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 31, 2006 Moderators Posted May 31, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...likewise while interesting, people don't need prophecy necessarily to have a relationship with God... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> This is exactly the kind of seeming denigration of other issues that gets my crow in this emphasis on relationships. Your point is well-taken that one can know all the other things but without a relationship with God, all that knowledge won't matter. Fair enough. But if prophecy was not important, God would not have given it. It is one of the more important spiritual gifts. It was the prophecy of a coming Redeemer that sustained and maintained A & E and their descendants' relationship with God after sin entered the world. It is the prophetic promises of God that sustains the Church's relationship with God today. Gerry Quote
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