Is the Virus a sign of the End?

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

https://www.adventistreview.org/coronavirus-a-sign-of-the-end

 

 

[JoeMo]

Whether or not this virus is a "sign of the end", I believe it is at least the "beginning of sorrows" or "birth pangs". The planet has changed so much in the past month that I don't think the world will ever be the same. The next few weeks will tell. I expect people to continue to get sick in increasing numbers.  The equity markets of the world will continue to fall.  Unemployment in North America may reach as high as 35% - 40%.A former British PM has suggested that we form a "temporary" world government to better manage this disease. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a huge effort to get rid of all cash because it is so filthy and spreads the corona virus and other diseases.  The division between good and evil will widen. a famous SDA author once said the final events will be rapid ones. Jesus is coming soon!

[BlessedMan]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

a famous SDA author once said the final events will be rapid ones.

9T, pg 11

The kind of "rapid" she is referring to would be what Jesus was referring to:

Quote

Rev_3:11  Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Now this is a different kind of "quickly" than what the typical dictionary definition would refer to. The Bible further explains WHO the "quickly" applies to in the most literal sense:

Quote

Rev_2:16  Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

I think that C19 and similar events could be the very very beginning "pangs" of "the end." But the kind of "quickly" being referred to here, has not even been close to whats happening now.

[BlessedMan]

There are a number of other perspectives on "quickly" which can be seen in the different Bible translations. Above I referenced the KJV but take a look at the NET versions for Rev 22:7

Quote

Rev 22:7  (Look! I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy expressed in this book.)

It would seem quite plausible that for those who have not repented and made things right with God, then His coming would be the kind of "quickly" referred to in 9T pg 11 or the KJV of the texts I cited above; but for those who know Jesus and "love His appearing;" (2 Tim 4:8)  it is always "soon..."  Rev 2:16 as cited above, seems to suggest this as a possible context that makes sense.

Edited March 31, 2020 by BlessedMan
formatting

[debbym]

The recent world events of the virus and the fallout has increased suffering all around the world. Not just the pain and death and torn families, but also real economic meltdown and isolation often for those very ill and needing family.  Jesus promised us this, "in the world you will have trouble, but take courage I have overcome the world."

I do not know how soon Jesus will come.  I do know the cry of the heart of humanity is getting louder longer  I am shaken by surges of ill and dying overflowing supplies, and space, and human strength to bear.  It is heartbreaking.  But it causes me to look to Him who is pouring mercy and love and light more and more on this world, as it is

Even so come Lord Jesus

[pierrepaul]

I have long since wearied of the constant "sign of the end". Why? As I enter my 5th decade on the planet, I've heard the following proclaimed as "signs of the end"

The Iran-US hostage crisis;

Pope JP II meeting Ronald Reagan;

The shooting down of the Korean airliner;

The fall of the Berlin Wall;

Maastricht Treaty;

The US-led coalition's war to evict the Iraqis from Kuwait and George Bush's "New World Order" speech

The SF earthquake in '89 interrupting the World Series;

The September 2001 terrorist attacks and the ensuing "war on terror"

The death of JPII and the election of a "conservative hardline" pope in Benedict XVI

The resignation of Benedict XVI and the election of a "liberal non-tradition" Jesuit pope in Francis I

The Isis war in Syria

It may be that we are in the end times (I sincerely doubt this), and therefore this could be an event happening "in" the end times; but I do not see how it could be a sign "of" the end times. Pestilences have occurred since time immemorial. Modern travel means that unlike the Black Death which took months and years to make its way around Europe, COVID-19 jumped the oceans in a matter of days and weeks, but it's the same idea. Covid-19 won't wipe out a third of the world's population like the Black Death. Covid-19 won't contribute to the wiping out of 90% of the population of a continent (like smallpox, slavery and other diseases and oppression did to the indigenous populations of the Americas). In 50-75 years from now, students of history will read about Covid-19 and it's aftermath. Other scholars, from economists or epidemiologists  will study the response and effects of the response for years to come. Depending on how severe the aftermath will be (recession with quick rebound, or depression taking years to recover and fueling extremists political movements), will determine whether or not society in 100 years will be generally aware of Covid-19 like we today are aware of the Great Depression of the 1930s, or if it will be like the depression of the 1870s that none but specialists and history nuts even know about today.

[BlessedMan]

6 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

The Iran-US hostage crisis;

Pope JP II meeting Ronald Reagan;

The shooting down of the Korean airliner;

The fall of the Berlin Wall;

Maastricht Treaty;

The US-led coalition's war to evict the Iraqis from Kuwait and George Bush's "New World Order" speech

The SF earthquake in '89 interrupting the World Series;

The September 2001 terrorist attacks and the ensuing "war on terror"

The death of JPII and the election of a "conservative hardline" pope in Benedict XVI

The resignation of Benedict XVI and the election of a "liberal non-tradition" Jesuit pope in Francis I

The Isis war in Syria

The only trouble with all of these is none are in the Bible. Some signs are in the Bible; but not these ones. And those signs are the words of Jesus; not denominated preferences, or personal dislikes.

[stinsonmarri]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:12 AM, pierrepaul said:

I have long since wearied of the constant "sign of the end". Why? As I enter my 5th decade on the planet, I've heard the following proclaimed as "signs of the end"

The Iran-US hostage crisis;

Pope JP II meeting Ronald Reagan;

The shooting down of the Korean airliner;

The fall of the Berlin Wall;

Maastricht Treaty;

The US-led coalition's war to evict the Iraqis from Kuwait and George Bush's "New World Order" speech

The SF earthquake in '89 interrupting the World Series;

The September 2001 terrorist attacks and the ensuing "war on terror"

The death of JPII and the election of a "conservative hardline" pope in Benedict XVI

The resignation of Benedict XVI and the election of a "liberal non-tradition" Jesuit pope in Francis I

The Isis war in Syria

It may be that we are in the end times (I sincerely doubt this), and therefore this could be an event happening "in" the end times; but I do not see how it could be a sign "of" the end times. Pestilences have occurred since time immemorial. Modern travel means that unlike the Black Death which took months and years to make its way around Europe, COVID-19 jumped the oceans in a matter of days and weeks, but it's the same idea. Covid-19 won't wipe out a third of the world's population like the Black Death. Covid-19 won't contribute to the wiping out of 90% of the population of a continent (like smallpox, slavery and other diseases and oppression did to the indigenous populations of the Americas). In 50-75 years from now, students of history will read about Covid-19 and it's aftermath. Other scholars, from economists or epidemiologists  will study the response and effects of the response for years to come. Depending on how severe the aftermath will be (recession with quick rebound, or depression taking years to recover and fueling extremists political movements), will determine whether or not society in 100 years will be generally aware of Covid-19 like we today are aware of the Great Depression of the 1930s, or if it will be like the depression of the 1870s that none but specialists and history nuts even know about today.

This is what was stated by the Adventist Review:

Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins. The book of Revelation is full of “plagues.” It mentions a “great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues” (Rev. 15:1). The first plague is described in these words: “Ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image” (Rev. 16:2). So pestilences (and presumably pandemics) will apparently stress the world beyond its limits at the very end, to the point that “there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world” (Matt. 24:21). The coronavirus cannot count as a sign of the end, so far.

EGW Visions and many of her remarks she made that were Biblical, I find many overlook. Yet she made it clear that many things would be understood at the end of time or close to YAHSHUA'S coming. Did she understand everything she wrote, and did she write errors based on what she believe? Yes, and she made that very clear in TM p. 105 that she was infaillible, just before her death. She always made it clear to take the Bible, but so many times we don't; instead, we listen to leaders just like IsraEL did in their days. I find it interested that she said this:

I sit a queen, and shall see no sorrow;'' as lovely then, and deeming herself as secure in Heaven's favor, as when, ages before, the royal minstrel sung, "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is :Mount Zion, ... the city of the great King."

Jesus, looking down to the last generation, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. 

His words  were  not  then  fully  understood ;  but  their  meaning was to he unfolded as His people should need the instruction therein  given. The prophecy which He uttered  was twofold in its  meaning: while foreshadowing the destruction  of Jerusalem,  it  prefigured  also the terrors  of the last great  day. GC p. 17, 22, 25 (Pdf)

When reading Matthew Chapter 24, we realize that the disciples asked two questions; the coming destruction of the Temple and when the end time would be. Now, we also must state that originally Matthew wrote this in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and not Greek. The KJV Scholars used Chapters when the Scriptures was continual with the same thought! And, if you notice the Greek manuscripts, the letters are running together. So, with that being said, when we go over these Scriptures, we must carefully see the ones that deal with the destruction of the Temple, then the ones for the end time, that are separate and the Scriptures that applies to both of them!

My problem with the Adventist Review is that it stated; "Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins." Sad that this is an Adventist major belief that during the Time of Trouble the faithful will be persecuted. Well, that is not what the Bible states at all. In both Daniel and Revelation (keep in mind they are actually one Book and the latter part of the book is more in depth. We need to combine these scriptures together); Dan 12:1-3 clearly states YAHSHUA called by HIS CHIEF TITLE MICHAEL stands up and there will be a Time of Trouble. Then two types of people will be resurrected at this time, but we will concentrate on the ones who will come up to have everlasting life! The next Scriptures that follow describes the wise teachers shall shine like the firmament, turning many like the stars to righteousness. Three Chapters in Revelation 11, 14, 7 explain in detail, along with Mat Chapters 25! If the 144,000 are sealed why do they need persecutions or pestilence? These people will before the Time of Trouble. They are empowered with THE SPIRIT that Elijah had! If you follow all of the individual that YAHWEH used to demonstrate HIS WRATH and HIS POWER it would be even more so during the Time of Trouble. By the way who is in Trouble? Why the wicked of course not the righteous. Who's WRATH is bringing on the Time of Trouble?

 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE of HIM that sitteth on the Throne, and from THE WRATH of THE LAMB: For the Great Day of HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:14-17

Now, I see at this time only THE WRATH of THE LAMB which is YAHSHUA and when is this wrath?

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. Rev 8:5, 6

I will say it again, according to the Scriptures the 7 Trumpets are THE WRATH of THE LAMB and the 7 last plagues are THE WRATH of THE FATHER!

 And I heard A GREAT VOICE  out of the Temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of THE WRATH of ELOHIYM upon the earth. Rev 16:1

During THE WRATH of THE LAMB, THE FATHER is heard stating to all of the evil angels that are release from prison these words:

And it was Commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of ELOHIYM in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Rev 9:4 -6

How plain is that? Only those who do not have the seal of THE FATHER will be persecuted or tormented but they also cannot be killed yet! If you look to Rev Chapter 8; four things happen to the earth prior to this Chapter. Then Chapter 11 tells that a person who is a Gentile (Greek speaking person), who Rev Chapter 17:1 states clearly of the whore and not the beast. She is riding the beast! We know that is the Catholic Church and she during the Time of Trouble is in power against YAHWEH. She is the one that trample the truth underground and the two Witnesses is the Bible! The people who will use the truth found in the Bible are the wise virgins who will shut up the rain; just like Elijah did! They will have this power. They will bring down the first four Trumpets of WRATH from THE LAMB by THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT just like Elijah! There will be no persecution of the saints but only the wickeds and the 144,000 will gather in the harvest of souls as these events take place end of story!

Conclusion: We are at the beginning of Sorrow and Matt 24:11-14 deals with both prophecies, verse 15 is dealing now and just before the Time of Trouble begins after it begins this verse makes it clear you must understand. Understand in Dan 12:11 and 2 Th Chapter 2 is not the whore but the beast! He will destroy Jerusalem which is Babylon. Notice, EGW quotes from Rev 18:7 and she alway gives the Scriptures she quotes but, this one is missing! I wonder why? She like I said also that this Queen Jerusalem has become Babylon! The papacy will be destroyed by the one she lead, the scarlet cover beast! It is all there just read it for yourself!

This pestilence is  happen now because sin has about played out! It appears many of us just do not want accept the facts if hits us on our noses. We have a global Climate problem. The earth is dying and it cannot be fix! Look at what is going on in the White House and lives are at stake! It is a shame and you all know it! PEOPLE ARE DYING! Time is coming  so fast to end that if you blink it might be too late!! What on earth do YAHWEH HAVE TO DO PEOPLE to show you what time it is? We will believe everything and everyone but the Bible and THE FATHER has had enough! We act just like those that Elijah had to prove when fire came down from Heaven and lapped everything up! Wicked people just will not listen and this planet is on its way out!

I pray we all stop pondering and get ready! It is time to humble ourselves, pray, confess, change and obey ALL of HIS  Commandments, Laws, Judgments and Statutes. Then we will understand and know the Testimony of YAHSHUA who is THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY!

Please Pray Everyone, and be blessed!

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

This is what was stated by the Adventist Review:

Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins. The book of Revelation is full of “plagues.” It mentions a “great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues” (Rev. 15:1). The first plague is described in these words: “Ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image” (Rev. 16:2). So pestilences (and presumably pandemics) will apparently stress the world beyond its limits at the very end, to the point that “there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world” (Matt. 24:21). The coronavirus cannot count as a sign of the end, so far.

EGW Visions and many of her remarks she made that were Biblical, I find many overlook. Yet she made it clear that many things would be understood at the end of time or close to YAHSHUA'S coming. Did she understand everything she wrote, and did she write errors based on what she believe? Yes, and she made that very clear in TM p. 105 that she was infaillible, just before her death. She always made it clear to take the Bible, but so many times we don't; instead, we listen to leaders just like IsraEL did in their days. I find it interested that she said this:

I sit a queen, and shall see no sorrow;'' as lovely then, and deeming herself as secure in Heaven's favor, as when, ages before, the royal minstrel sung, "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is :Mount Zion, ... the city of the great King."

Jesus, looking down to the last generation, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. 

His words  were  not  then  fully  understood ;  but  their  meaning was to he unfolded as His people should need the instruction therein  given. The prophecy which He uttered  was twofold in its  meaning: while foreshadowing the destruction  of Jerusalem,  it  prefigured  also the terrors  of the last great  day. GC p. 17, 22, 25 (Pdf)

When reading Matthew Chapter 24, we realize that the disciples asked two questions; the coming destruction of the Temple and when the end time would be. Now, we also must state that originally Matthew wrote this in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and not Greek. The KJV Scholars used Chapters when the Scriptures was continual with the same thought! And, if you notice the Greek manuscripts, the letters are running together. So, with that being said, when we go over these Scriptures, we must carefully see the ones that deal with the destruction of the Temple, then the ones for the end time, that are separate and the Scriptures that applies to both of them!

My problem with the Adventist Review is that it stated; "Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins." Sad that this is an Adventist major belief that during the Time of Trouble the faithful will be persecuted. Well, that is not what the Bible states at all. In both Daniel and Revelation (keep in mind they are actually one Book and the latter part of the book is more in depth. We need to combine these scriptures together); Dan 12:1-3 clearly states YAHSHUA called by HIS CHIEF TITLE MICHAEL stands up and there will be a Time of Trouble. Then two types of people will be resurrected at this time, but we will concentrate on the ones who will come up to have everlasting life! The next Scriptures that follow describes the wise teachers shall shine like the firmament, turning many like the stars to righteousness. Three Chapters in Revelation 11, 14, 7 explain in detail, along with Mat Chapters 25! If the 144,000 are sealed why do they need persecutions or pestilence? These people will before the Time of Trouble. They are empowered with THE SPIRIT that Elijah had! If you follow all of the individual that YAHWEH used to demonstrate HIS WRATH and HIS POWER it would be even more so during the Time of Trouble. By the way who is in Trouble? Why the wicked of course not the righteous. Who's WRATH is bringing on the Time of Trouble?

 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE of HIM that sitteth on the Throne, and from THE WRATH of THE LAMB: For the Great Day of HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:14-17

Now, I see at this time only THE WRATH of THE LAMB which is YAHSHUA and when is this wrath?

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. Rev 8:5, 6

I will say it again, according to the Scriptures the 7 Trumpets are THE WRATH of THE LAMB and the 7 last plagues are THE WRATH of THE FATHER!

 And I heard A GREAT VOICE  out of the Temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of THE WRATH of ELOHIYM upon the earth. Rev 16:1

During THE WRATH of THE LAMB, THE FATHER is heard stating to all of the evil angels that are release from prison these words:

And it was Commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of ELOHIYM in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Rev 9:4 -6

How plain is that? Only those who do not have the seal of THE FATHER will be persecuted or tormented but they also cannot be killed yet! If you look to Rev Chapter 8; four things happen to the earth prior to this Chapter. Then Chapter 11 tells that a person who is a Gentile (Greek speaking person), who Rev Chapter 17:1 states clearly of the whore and not the beast. She is riding the beast! We know that is the Catholic Church and she during the Time of Trouble is in power against YAHWEH. She is the one that trample the truth underground and the two Witnesses is the Bible! The people who will use the truth found in the Bible are the wise virgins who will shut up the rain; just like Elijah did! They will have this power. They will bring down the first four Trumpets of WRATH from THE LAMB by THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT just like Elijah! There will be no persecution of the saints but only the wickeds and the 144,000 will gather in the harvest of souls as these events take place end of story!

Conclusion: We are at the beginning of Sorrow and Matt 24:11-14 deals with both prophecies, verse 15 is dealing now and just before the Time of Trouble begins after it begins this verse makes it clear you must understand. Understand in Dan 12:11 and 2 Th Chapter 2 is not the whore but the beast! He will destroy Jerusalem which is Babylon. Notice, EGW quotes from Rev 18:7 and she alway gives the Scriptures she quotes but, this one is missing! I wonder why? She like I said also that this Queen Jerusalem has become Babylon! The papacy will be destroyed by the one she lead, the scarlet cover beast! It is all there just read it for yourself!

This pestilence is  happen now because sin has about played out! It appears many of us just do not want accept the facts if hits us on our noses. We have a global Climate problem. The earth is dying and it cannot be fix! Look at what is going on in the White House and lives are at stake! It is a shame and you all know it! PEOPLE ARE DYING! Time is coming  so fast to end that if you blink it might be too late!! What on earth do YAHWEH HAVE TO DO PEOPLE to show you what time it is? We will believe everything and everyone but the Bible and THE FATHER has had enough! We act just like those that Elijah had to prove when fire came down from Heaven and lapped everything up! Wicked people just will not listen and this planet is on its way out!

I pray we all stop pondering and get ready! It is time to humble ourselves, pray, confess, change and obey ALL of HIS  Commandments, Laws, Judgments and Statutes. Then we will understand and know the Testimony of YAHSHUA who is THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY!

Please Pray Everyone, and be blessed!

 

 

Forgive me everyone I saw too late a lot of mistakes so I am sending it again:

This is what was stated by the Adventist Review:

Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins. The book of Revelation is full of “plagues.” It mentions a “great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues” (Rev. 15:1). The first plague is described in these words: “Ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image” (Rev. 16:2). So pestilences (and presumably pandemics) will apparently stress the world beyond its limits at the very end, to the point that “there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world” (Matt. 24:21). The coronavirus cannot count as a sign of the end, so far.

EGW Visions and many of her remarks she made that were Biblical, I find many have been overlooked. Yet she made it clear that many things would be understood at the end of time or close to YAHSHUA'S coming. Did she understand everything she wrote, and did she write errors based on what she believed? Yes, and she made that very clear in TM p. 105 that she was infallible, just before her death. She always made it clear to take the Bible, but so many times we don't; instead, we listen to leaders just like IsraEL did in their days. I find it interested that she said this:

I sit a queen, and shall see no sorrow;'' as lovely then, and deeming herself as secure in Heaven's favor, as when, ages before, the royal minstrel sung, "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is :Mount Zion, ... the city of the great King."

Jesus, looking down to the last generation, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of His government in heaven and earth.

His words  were  not  then  fully  understood ;  but  their  meaning was to he unfolded as His people should need the instruction therein  given. The prophecy which He uttered  was twofold in its  meaning: while foreshadowing the destruction  of Jerusalem,  it  prefigured  also the terrors  of the last great  day. GC p. 17, 22, 25 (Pdf)

When reading Matthew Chapter 24, we realize that the disciples asked two questions; the coming destruction of the Temple and when the end time would be. Now, we also must state that originally Matthew wrote this in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and not Greek. The KJV Scholars used Chapters when the Scriptures was continuing with the same thought! And, if you notice the Greek manuscripts, the letters are running together. So, with that being said, when we go over these Scriptures, we must carefully see the ones that deal with the destruction of the Temple, then the ones for the end time, that are separate and the Scriptures that applies to both of them!

My problem with the Adventist Review is that it stated; "Pestilences will be signs of the times, but only when persecution begins." Sad that this is an Adventist major belief that during the Time of Trouble the faithful will be persecuted. Well, that is not what the Bible states at all. In both Daniel and Revelation (keep in mind they are actually one Book and the latter part of the book is more in depth. We need to combine these Scriptures together); Dan 12:1-3 clearly states YAHSHUA called by HIS CHIEF TITLE MICHAEL stands up and there will be a Time of Trouble. Then two types of people will be resurrected at this time, but we will concentrate on the ones who will come up to have everlasting life! The next Scriptures that follow describes the wise teachers shall shine like the firmament, turning many like the stars to righteousness. Three Chapters in Revelation 11, 14, 7 explain this in detail, along with Mat Chapters 25! If the 144,000 are sealed why do they need to be persecuted or have pestilence to be brought on them? These people will be seal; before the Time of Trouble. They are empowered with THE SPIRIT that Elijah had! If you follow all of the individuals that YAHWEH used in the OT demonstrating HIS WRATH and HIS POWER, it would be even more so during the Time of Trouble. By the way who is in Trouble? Why the wicked of course not the righteous. Whose WRATH is bringing on the Time of Trouble?

 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE of HIM that sitteth on the Throne, and from THE WRATH of THE LAMB: For the Great Day of HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:14-17

Now, I see at this time only THE WRATH of THE LAMB which is YAHSHUA and when is this wrath?

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. Rev 8:5, 6

I will say it again, according to the Scriptures the 7 Trumpets are THE WRATH of THE LAMB and the 7 last plagues are THE WRATH of THE FATHER!

And I heard A GREAT VOICE  out of the Temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of THE WRATH of ELOHIYM upon the earth. Rev 16:1

During THE WRATH of THE LAMB, THE FATHER is heard stating to all of the evil angels that are release from prison these words:

And it had Commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of ELOHIYM in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Rev 9:4 -6

How plain is that? Only those who do not have the seal of THE FATHER will be persecuted or tormented but they also cannot be killed yet! If you look to Rev Chapter 8; four things happen to the earth prior to this Chapter. Then Chapter 11 tells that a person who is a Gentile (an Indo European Gen10:5, remember Nimrod was a Cushite and he too ruled the earth and went against YAHWEH!), who Rev Chapter 17:1 states clearly of the whore and not the beast. She is riding the beast! We know that is the Catholic Church and she during the Time of Trouble is in power against YAHWEH. She is the one that trample the truth underground and the two Witnesses is the Bible! The people who will use the truth found in the Bible are the wise virgins who will shut up the rain; just like Elijah did! They will have this power. They will bring down the first four Trumpets of WRATH from THE LAMB by THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT just like Elijah! There will be no persecution of the saints but only the wicked and the 144,000 will gather in the harvest of souls as these events take place end of story!

Conclusion: We are at the beginning of Sorrow and Matt 24:11-14 deals with both prophecies, verse 15 is dealing now and just before the Time of Trouble begins after it begins this verse makes it clear you must understand. Understand in Dan 12:11 and 2 Th Chapter 2 is not the whore but the beast! He will destroy Jerusalem which is Babylon. Notice, EGW quotes from Rev 18:7 and she always give the Scriptures she quotes but, this one is missing! I wonder why? She like I said also said that this Queen Jerusalem has become Babylon! The papacy will be destroyed by the one she led, the scarlet cover beast! It is all there just read it for yourself!

This pestilence is  happening now because sin has about played out! It appears many of us just do not want to accept the facts if it hits us on our noses. We have a global Climate problem. The earth is dying, and it cannot be fix! Look at what is going on in the White House and lives are at stake! It is a shame and you all know it! PEOPLE ARE DYING! Time is coming  so fast to an end that if you blink it might be too late!! What on earth do YAHWEH HAVE TO DO TO WAKE UP HIS PEOPLE to show you what time it is? We will believe everything and everyone, but the Bible and THE FATHER has had enough! We act just like those that Elijah had to prove when fire came down from Heaven and lapped everything up! Wicked people just will not listen, and this planet is on its way out!

I pray we all stop pondering and get ready! It is time to humble ourselves and we need to pray, confess, change and obey ALL of HIS  Commandments, Laws, Judgments and Statutes. Then we will understand and know the Testimony of YAHSHUA who THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY is!

Please, we need serious prayer to see the truth and blessings to all!

 

 

[pierrepaul]

On 4/3/2020 at 5:31 PM, BlessedMan said:

The only trouble with all of these is none are in the Bible. Some signs are in the Bible; but not these ones. And those signs are the words of Jesus; not denominated preferences, or personal dislikes.

Yes, and Covid-19 is not in the Bible; and the Sunday Law is not in the Bible.

[B/W Photodude]

3 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

Yes, and Covid-19 is not in the Bible; and the Sunday Law is not in the Bible.

You may need to use a bit of deductive reasoning here. We do have that capability.

Deductive reasoning, also deductive logic, is the process of reasoning from one or more statements (premises) to reach a logically certain conclusion. Deductive reasoning goes in the same direction as that of the conditionals, and links premises with conclusions. If all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true.

[BlessedMan]

6 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

Yes, and Covid-19 is not in the Bible; and the Sunday Law is not in the Bible.

Mat_24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Luk_21:11  And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

In the literal sense, "pestilences, as used in scripture could mean "plague" such as diseases, in the figurative sense which is sometimes used, it could mean "a pest" which a disease such as Covid19 would meet both general descriptors.

Again; Jesus said this, not me or anyone else in this thread.

Before Jesus mentioned these "pestilences, the question was asked by His disciples:

Quote

"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Mat 24:3).

The very first thing Jesus mentioned in His response to the question about "what shall be the sign" was to take great care that "no man deceive you." (Mat 24:4).

In Mat 24:5, after Jesus mentioned "wars & rumors of war..." He mentioned "pestilences" in Mat 24:7. Luke 21:11

In summary; our Lord mentioned that all of these signs "are the beginning of sorrows." Like it or not, the world-wide scope of so-called Covid19 is a part of said "beginning of sorrows." Its actually not a denominational thing to say that. Its Biblical. And it is physically observable to be happening now, just as Jesus said.

Mat 24:9-10 details exactly what you say wont happen. Mat 24:1-13 seems to be saying that the deepening crises will increase, incrementally, step by step. And that the "signs" will reveal character, and effect what is called in Mat 24:14 as "...the gospel of the kingdom being preached in all the world, as A WITNESS." The crises, as it develops and widens will reveal character; and THAT witness will be revealed.

I think you would have to do much better if you want to accuse Adventists of something here.

It is interesting to note that Jesus also said: "MANY SHALL BE OFFENDED..." (Mat 24:10)

[BlessedMan]

Quote

When in difficulty, philosophers and men of science try to satisfy their minds without appealing to God. They ventilate their philosophy in regard to the heavens and the earth, accounting for plagues, pestilences, epidemics, earthquakes, and famines by their supposed science. Questions relating to creation and providence they attempt to solve by saying, This is a law of nature.  {CT 440.2}

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by BlessedMan

[stinsonmarri]

7 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

Yes, and Covid-19 is not in the Bible; and the Sunday Law is not in the Bible.

The Covid-19 is a virus and it is a pest and it is in the Bible. Jer 44:13; Mat 24:7;   Luke 21:11 You are correct about the Sunday Law. I have been an SDA for over 65 years and not one SDA can show anyone where it states that or the trinity but they somehow believe it. I have never read a mark is a day or a law period.

Blessings!

[BlessedMan]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:02 PM, BlessedMan said:

Rev_2:16  Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Another way that Jesus describes the "quickly" idea is here:

Quote

Luk_17:24  For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

 

[pierrepaul]

15 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The Covid-19 is a virus and it is a pest and it is in the Bible.

Epidemics, pandemics, viruses, virulent bacteria, etc. are only referred to in the Bible generally; and these things have been around since time immemorial. "Pestilence" is mentioned in the Bible, but the present pandemic certainly isn't singled out. Similarly "earthquakes" are mentioned in the Bible, but the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 most certainly was not singled out. "Wars" are mentioned in the Bible, but no specific war is mentioned in prophecy (and curiously, the two greatest wars in all of history, WWI & WWII, never get a mention in SDA prophecy).

 

19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

You may need to use a bit of deductive reasoning here. We do have that capability.

In this case, a creative imagination is also required.

[BlessedMan]

30 minutes ago, pierrepaul said:

Epidemics, pandemics, viruses, virulent bacteria, etc. are only referred to in the Bible generally; and these things have been around since time immemorial. "Pestilence" is mentioned in the Bible, but the present pandemic certainly isn't singled out. Similarly "earthquakes" are mentioned in the Bible, but the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 most certainly was not singled out. "Wars" are mentioned in the Bible, but no specific war is mentioned in prophecy (and curiously, the two greatest wars in all of history, WWI & WWII, never get a mention in SDA prophecy).

 

In this case, a creative imagination is also required.

Your post shows a great deal lacking in basic Bible passages and their meaning, as well as a complete misstatement re "SDA prophecy"  and Seventh-day Adventist History. history. Essentially, your post is just an opinion.(which of course is fine too). But I see nothing that can be supported here at all.

The Bible essentially  does say "these things have been around since time immemorial" as they are mentioned throughout Scripture, including during end time scenarios; and for some reason, you seem to call it "only generally mentioned" as if that would be precluding any application to whats going on now?. I have no idea how that could be supported from scripture.

[stinsonmarri]

39 minutes ago, pierrepaul said:

Epidemics, pandemics, viruses, virulent bacteria, etc. are only referred to in the Bible generally; and these things have been around since time immemorial. "Pestilence" is mentioned in the Bible, but the present pandemic certainly isn't singled out. Similarly "earthquakes" are mentioned in the Bible, but the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 most certainly was not singled out. "Wars" are mentioned in the Bible, but no specific war is mentioned in prophecy (and curiously, the two greatest wars in all of history, WWI & WWII, never get a mention in SDA prophecy).

 

In this case, a creative imagination is also required.

See that is the problem with us. Our ways are not THE MOST HIGH WAYS, our thought are not THE MOST HIGH THOUGHTS! Imagination is something you dream up in the mind. This can be positive if planning to achieve something but not with the Bible. It is not imaginative at all! We want everything spelled out for us the way we want. If you just read your Bible ,certain individuals attempted to do the same thing. Judas imagine that if he helped YAHSHUA by going behind HIS BACK (he thought) by giving HIM up to be killed. HE imagined that YAHSHUA would used HIS POWER and defeat them and be what he thought or should I say imagine what THE MESSIAH was suppose to be! Many like him were looking for an earthly Messiah that they imagine. Why? They did not read nor understand HE came to die for us all because of sin! When he came to realization that his imagination was not so good, it was to late. He ended up committing suicide!

Now, King Saul imagined that if he sacrifice all the lambs he got after the war he won, to YAHWEH; HE would accept them. However, that was not the instruction, Saul was supposed to destroy everything and didn't based on his imagination and realization! Saul ended up committing suicide too!

Finally, the Adams imagined that when they first took of the unbidden fruit, that they were elevating to be like THEIR CREATOR. What really happen was the opposite, they were descending downward and lost their robe of Righteousness, their longevity, their home and so much more and then they saw that they were naked! Creative on your part is not actually true because everything that you used was already here. Who created and put it here, not your imagination but true realization and evidence; THE CREATOR-THE SON did it. Heb 1:2 

If you want to think that man could spread something like this, or that there is no reason for this! I would like to introduce to THE THREE INDIVIDUAL ELOHIYM, THE FATHER who IS THE DESIGNER, YAHSHUA, WHO SPOKE and HE MOLD us. THE HOLY SPIRIT who BROUGHT everything SPOKEN INTO EXISTENCE. There is your ONE in Hebrew it means UNITED BEINGS working TOGETHER all the time in every situation. Too bad we need to stop imagining and unite to be like THEM! That's why COVID-19 is here too many imaginations (Gen 6:5) and not enough grace. Gen 6:8

Blessings!

[B/W Photodude]

3 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

In this case, a creative imagination is also required.

No creative imagination. I see enough "creative imagination" to be concerned.

[Kevin H]

Pierrepaul: Actually Mrs. White did comment on the first world war, and in a lot of ways that war is still going on and the events she predicted has been growing since then. 

Now about Sunday laws. Amos says that God will do nothing without revealing it to the prophets. There was a two direction eschatology through out the Old Testament: Either they were faithful in the land and the world will come to them to learn the truth. Or else if they were unfaithful they would suffer curses and if nothing else worked then they would go into exile. The exile was to have been the last days, the Hebrews were to teach their neighbors about their God and God's faithfulness and their unfaithfulness. The exile was supposed to end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah. 

Daniel changed this eschatology into another 490 years in the land and what would have happened had Jesus been accepted. He would have set up the kingdom upon raising from the dead after 3 1/2 years in the tomb.

Jesus was not accepted, so he spend only 3 days in the tomb and needed a second coming, and tied it to the fall of Jerusalem. 

Hebrews explains why Jesus did not (or would not) come back around the time of the fall of Jerusalem, and was focused on his heavenly ministry for us that he would not have been able to do if he came back. But this caused the church to loose it's first love, so Revelation had the theme of "Preach again!!!" and the last days could have been connected to the Domitian persecution, but did not allow Domitian to get a swelled head about being the great Antichrist, that the last days happening in his persecution was still based on the gospel being spread to the whole world. 

Any sign of the end is based on the gospel being preached into all the world. But God has given us different situations where it could have happened. If the basic principles can apply we can stay with the basic principles. If history changes too much (for example we are not in the Babylon captivity) God will apply the principles to new applications as the times warrant.  Joachin of Flore made applications to soon after his time (and principles that were picked up by the Franciscans and evolved over time into Adventism and Millerism and one of the major threads that came together to form Seventh-day Adventism). A basic situation under a great empire such as Rome and the Holy Roman empire with Papal supremacy could have been applied during the 4th and 5th heads. But as we went under the 6th head and then moving towards the 7th needed a new prophet to give principles for the time we are living in. Mrs. White sees Sabbath and Sunday playing a role in the Christian world, but indications that there will be other testing issues outside of the Christian world. She also grew from "Sunday Laws" to the issue of "Liberty of Conscience." Sadly we have not caught up to her. The typical Adventist reads the words such as "Liberty of conscious threatened" we have an automatic spell check in our mind so that by the time those words reach our brain they have been translated into the words "Sunday Law" which we read back into her text. 

Her eschatology is Catholicism, Apostate Protestantism joining with existentialism (spiritualism), and that we will face tests where we need to compromise something in our conscience to go along with the system, and we have to evaluate if we are really following the truth as we understand it, and will we allow others who have different understandings than we do to follow their conscience or will we pressure them into compliance. This is her basic eschatology, Sunday laws or not, and she did see issues with Sabbath and Sunday with possibility Sunday laws (whether completed or not) bringing the test to the Christian community, and similar tests for others.  

[BlessedMan]

2 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

in a lot of ways that war is still going on

This is a really good point. Id like to come back to another time when I have the energy.

 

I also recall some years ago people saying that "USSR will never be open to Christianity...etc etc. And I have some old signs articles from the thirties that back up our teachings re "they shall not cleave one to another." The fight is real; it hasnt stopped, and its not going to get better until Jesus comes. The all-too common tenet of "evolution" is that "sin gets better." Jesus says sin will be destroyed

[pierrepaul]

10 hours ago, Kevin H said:

Pierrepaul: Actually Mrs. White did comment on the first world war, and in a lot of ways that war is still going on and the events she predicted has been growing since then.

Fascinating. The Great War is the political watershed event of our times, far more so than trivial events such as those of 1798 that traditional SDA eschatology has blown out of all proportion. In my youth I attended at least half-a-dozen SDA-sponsored "Daniel and Revelation Seminars" and I never once saw any reference to the Great War of 1914-18 anywhere.

[BlessedMan]

4 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

Fascinating. The Great War is the political watershed event of our times, far more so than trivial events such as those of 1798 that traditional SDA eschatology has blown out of all proportion. In my youth I attended at least half-a-dozen SDA-sponsored "Daniel and Revelation Seminars" and I never once saw any reference to the Great War of 1914-18 anywhere.

I believe you when you say you never saw any such. I have np with that. But it does remain that your posting here is anecdotal and misinformed, at best.

Here are just a few of the many references that could be cited to show how misguided your sentiment here is. In the two-volume set of God Cares, by C Mervyn Maxwell:

Volume one deals with the book of Daniel, while Volume two deals with Mat 24&25 plus the Book of Revelation. I would highly recommend these books to anyone wanting to know the general line of Adventist thinking on prophecy.

Volume 1

WW1  pg 37
WW2  pg 38, 39, 54-56

Volume 2

Holy War  (jihad) pg 247
Hundred Years War pg 125
Thirty Years War pg 35, 126, 184
US Civil War     pg 117, 365, 366
War of 1812     pg 356
WW1  pg 184
WW2 pg 81, 284, 322

In volume one, in one section that talks about WW1 and the prophecies, of mainly, Daniel, Chapter Two

Quote

"Millions still living remember Hitler's piercing voice as in seemingly endless harangues, he portrayed The Nazi Goal: "Germany Over All!" or "Deutschland uber alles..."  But the five simple words (from Dan 2) held true in this case also."

I have in my possession many books and articles by Adventist sources that do indeed talk about WW1 and WW2 in Bible prophecy. As I said, you would have to do much better to make your insinuations stick.

[Kevin H]

On 4/8/2020 at 12:36 AM, BlessedMan said:

This is a really good point. Id like to come back to another time when I have the energy.

 

I also recall some years ago people saying that "USSR will never be open to Christianity...etc etc. And I have some old signs articles from the thirties that back up our teachings re "they shall not cleave one to another." The fight is real; it hasnt stopped, and its not going to get better until Jesus comes. The all-too common tenet of "evolution" is that "sin gets better." Jesus says sin will be destroyed

We have to be careful with the "they shall not cleave one to another." Revelation 17 and 18 indicates that there will be a short time where they appear to cleave together as the world unites in economic cooperation and people buy expensive goods from all over the world. If you look up that list for the ancient world, they came from all over the Roman empire. Under the 7th head for the global trade things will appear peaceful. Satan impersonating Christ and demons impersonating our loved ones would encourage us to go along with the system, although it would mean compromising our conscience and or a situation where we feel we need to pressure others to compromise with their conscience. It will appear that Daniel's prophecy has failed, but this time of peace and prosperity will quickly fall apart into total chaos. Maybe some limited nuclear attacks, and of course global warming and the seas polluted  and unable to support life.

When this wonderful time comes crashing down, and the merchants of the earth (the corporations) mourn the blame will be placed on those who decided to follow their conscience even though the rejection of this being that we think is Jesus, and demons who we think is our loved ones, and thus choosing to do what's right and follow our understanding of the Bible even though it appears we will be lost. We will be going through the time of Jacob's trouble, evaluating our hearts and life and are we really being fair to truth. So we will be miserable. The world going thought the high of the apparent joining of the toes will want to put us out of our misery.

[BlessedMan]

Yes, you are totally right; but there is a difference between everyone working together for "the common good;" whereas being "cleaved one to another", is a much closer, deeper bond than than economic and climate mantra

Ill write more on what Im thinking later...I am seriously worn out for a few days.

This looks like it might shape up into a good discussion!