is there a REAL Book of Life in heaven?

[Parade Orange]

I agree Shane!

thannks!

is this theology so farfetched?

Isnt it BEAUTIFUL!

ponder it!

Its biblical in God's character motif

[Gerr]

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rudywoofs said:

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The final confirmation or dropping of names take place during the pre-advent judgment.

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Pre-advent judgment? Is that aka the Investigative judgment? If that's so, then some names have already been dropped? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/] Man, I don't know... the whole judgment thing seems like a waste of time. If Christ covers someone's sins with His righteousness, then what is there to judge? If He doesn't, then by default - because nobody is good enough by themselves, they are condemned. What is there to judge? Geez...I must be missing something somewhere.. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

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[:"blue"] Yes, pre-advent judgment = investigative judgment. "For we shall ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ." Rom 14:10 NKJ

"For we must ALL appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10 NKJ.

Why? "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and DONE many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Mt 7:21-23 NKJ

Saved by grace thru faith, judged by works to see if the faith is genuine. Why?

"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." Jam 2:17 NKJ.

"...a tree is known by its fruit." Mt 12:33 NKJ

"...the Lord will judge His people." Heb 10:30 NKJ.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Pe 4:17 NKJ

"And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." Rev 20:12 NKJ [/]

BTW, if you attend a SDA church, this quarter's SS lessons is about the judgment, including the investigative judgment & 1844, in case you are interested.

Gerry

[melvin mccarty]

1 Peter 4:17 For the time HAS COME for the judgement to begin. HAS COME 2000 years ago! How can you ignore that part of the text?

mel

[Robert]

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rudywoofs said: What is there to judge?

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There is an accuser and he's telling God, day and night, that Pam doesn't deserve heaven. When your case comes up a judgment will be rendered.

Rob

[Gerr]

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melvin mccarty said:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time HAS COME for the judgement to begin. HAS COME 2000 years ago! How can you ignore that part of the text?

mel

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[:"blue"]Mel, I did notice, but what you failed to see is that "has come" & "begin" are supplied words. They are NOT in the original. Paul, on the other hand, uses future tense in Rom 14:10 & Heb 10:30 in the original Greek, which tells me that judgment was still future in his day. [/]

Gerry

[melvin mccarty]

Neat dodge Gerry

mel

[melvin mccarty]

Other translations and the SDA commentary agree with the "added" words

mel

[David Koot]

Well, let's take a look at the original:

"kairos tou arxsasthai to krima apo tou oikou tou theou"

Seems to be pretty straightforward:

"time the to begin the judgment from the house of the God."

The key word, 'arxsasthai' is an aorist middle infinitive. There are no words which could be translated, 'has come.' The verb does not say 'has begun' but could say 'to begin.' We also recognize that Peter was a fisherman, and his writing style is not necessarily that of one schooled in grammar. His grammar here is rather rough, IMO. The various renderings of this cloudy phraseology, from one language to another, in this case are judgment calls. The safest way to develop a clear understanding of what Peter meant to say, in a questionable case such as this one, is by comparison with other passages.

Dave

[melvin mccarty]

So do you mean that you have access to an original manuscript?

mel

[David Koot]

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melvin mccarty said:

So do you mean that you have access to an original manuscript?

mel

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Nestle-Aland, which includes the critical apparatus.

[Gerr]

No dodging, Mel. Just stating facts. My comment stands.

Gerry

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Pam,

When I think of the investigative Judgment I look at it in a different way than others. It may not make sense now but when things change and God's people are being persecurted and accused of all kinds of things (lies) then it will be strengthening to know that we are being or have been judged "righteously and with justice and equity"

It is also a stablizing factor to know that our names are written in heaven.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you ; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Those verses have really helped me to know that my name is not written in heaven because of my works (casting out demons or healing the sick or whatever good I may do) but my name is there because of what Jesus has done and I have been chosen of God after He called and I accepted. If my joy came from my good works then I'd have an emotional up and down experience because I'm not always doing those things. Having my name written in heaven because of what Jesus has done keeps me stable.

There is no in and out religion in Adventism, we are in Christ and in the end if we remain in Him we will be given immortality with our new bodies. Eternal life begins the day we accept Christ and are sealed with the Holy Spirit (until the day of redemption) Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (He does not change His mind once He's given a gift or calling, but we are the ones who refuse them)

God sees us one way, it is us who have the problem and think He sees us as saved one minute and lost the next.

Norman

[John317]

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Shane said:

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is there a REAL Book of Life in heaven?

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"I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life." Phil. 4:3

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life" Rev. 3:5

"all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." ibid 13:8

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." ibid 17:8

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works... And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ibid 20:12, 15

"and there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." ibid 21:27

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life" ibid 22:19

[:"blue"]The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it. [/]

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If God was the only one involved in the judging, there would be no need of any "books" or record of people's lives. But the Bible makes plain that God is not the only one involved in this process. Other intelligent beings are also involved. That is, there is a whole universe of intelligent beings who are very interested in who will be given immortality and be their "neighbors" for eternity. They want to see how God deals with rebellion and how God decides issues related to it. That is the reason for the books.

A book is kept of our lives to show whether we are worthy or unworthy of the great gift of eternal life and immortality. They will show whether our lives demonstrate our faithfulness and obedience to Jesus Christ. The book of life records the names of all those who have claimed Jesus Christ as their Savior. Our names are not stricken from the book of life as easily as some evidently think. God is interested in saving people, not in causing them to be lost. He wants us saved far more than even we want it ourselves. It is why He waits.

A personal friend of mine, Bradley Williams, an SDA pastor, has recently written and published a wonderful book about the Investigative Judgment, entitled, The Silencing of Satan, which is available at some SDA Bible stores and may be ordered if it is not in stock. It is one of the best books I have ever read on the subject, based completely on the Bible evidence, and showing that the Adventist view of the Pre-Advent Judgment is Biblically sound. He also deals at length with the question often raised of the Christian's assurance of salvation in the light of the Investigative Judgment. It is 150 pages long and is a great book to study along with this quarterly's Sabbath School Bible Study Guide on the same topic.

[LifeHiscost]

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rudywoofs said:

Pre-advent judgment? Is that aka the Investigative judgment? If that's so, then some names have already been dropped? Man, I don't know...

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Pam, if you are coming from where I think you are, the Bible is not necessarily your book of choice for drawing conclusions. If that is only my wrong assumption, please feel free to correct me.

The reason I try to define where you're coming from is that I would suggest, until you see the Word speaking as from God Himself, it will never be consistent in its' answers to you, for you will reject the answers you don't like from the Word if they seem not to make sense to you, and you will build your platform of faith on the part of the Word you agree with to the exclusion of those with which you don't agree.

Please believe me when I say this is in no way meant to condemn or make light of your decision making, as I see most Christians in their journey of faith, not to exclude myself, reason in this way at one time or another. And some never stop using this manner of reasoning to their own detriment.

[:"red"] "But He answered and said, "It is written, ' MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" [/] Matthew 4:4 NASB Emph theirs LHC

At this point of time, one of the greatest stablizing influences I can see for anyone desiring to walk where they feel their Creator would have them to walk, is to accept first and foremost, that God is love___

[:"red"] "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." [/] 1 John 4:8 NASB

Therefore nothing He ever asks of you is meant to do anything other than facilitate your entrance into heaven where He knows you will be eternally safe.

[:"red"] "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. " [/] John 14:1-3 NASB

You can be assured that no one will be excluded from the kingdom who would be comfortable sitting next to Jesus and discussing all the things they wish they had a better handle on while they were on this earth.

[:"red"] "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." [/] John 3:17 KJV

[:"red"] "I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear [them] now" [/] John 16:12 YLT

brackets theirs LHC

Most Christians look at the judgement scenes as a time to fear since they see they are not worthy to receive all of the wonderful things the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have provided for Jesus' disciples. Our Father knew we would react that way, even when He had promised something better, and it's largely due to the fact that a vast majority look at what they have done as the final determinate to receive eternal life. If that were the case then this next verse damns us all to eternal oblivion.

[:"red"] "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;

And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." [/] Isaiah 64:6 NASB

So, what is God's solution for people caught in the throes of iniquitous behavior, or even those who think their own good deeds will deliver them whole from this world??

[:"red"] "'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. " [/]

Rev 3:20 NASB

[:"red"] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." [/] John 15:5 NASB

For the disciple of Christ, this is the answer___

[:"red"] "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden and overburdened, and I will cause you to rest. [i will ease and relieve and refresh your souls.]

Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am gentle (meek) and humble (lowly) in heart, and you will find rest (relief and ease and refreshment and recreation and blessed quiet) for your souls.

For My yoke is wholesome (useful, good--not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing, but comfortable, gracious, and pleasant), and My burden is light and easy to be borne." [/] Matthew 11:28-30 AMP

This will be the result___

[:"red"] "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." [/] Phil 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "...so that no man may boast before God.

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption" [/] 1 Cor 1:29,30 NASB

God bless you in your efforts to find joy in Jesus!!

[:"red"] "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you" [/] Ezekiel 36:26 KJV

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