The Reformers Understanding of Moral Vs. Ceremonial Law

[GHansen]

Gustave, there is a time between the two days which is not clearly delineated, the time that the sun sets; nevertheless, In Leviticus 23, especially regarding the DoA,  it is clearly from sunset to sunset. How they determined that time, as far as I know, is not explained. You made the following statement:

"No, there were a couple of other Feasts who's observance was to be started the evening prior to the actual day - but NOT ALL the Feasts. What Feast are you referring to where observance was to start on the day prior to the Feast were there WASN'T instructions to do so?" 

You state that the timing of the feasts was not always the same i.e., the feast did not always begin as sunset. Another way of saying it would be "Different feasts began at different times." I asked you to provide an example where the Bible says a feast should begin at a time other than sunset. Can you do that?

 

I'd also like to mention that in the beginning, "darkness was upon the face of the deep."  The world began in darkness [like it's dark at night]. Then he said "Let there be light." The order of time from the creation started with darkness into which light was introduced. That indicates that the day begins with darkness. The timing of the DoA also begins with darkness--the evening.

[Gustave]

11 hours ago, GHansen said:

Gustave, there is a time between the two days which is not clearly delineated, the time that the sun sets; nevertheless, In Leviticus 23, especially regarding the DoA,  it is clearly from sunset to sunset. How they determined that time, as far as I know, is not explained. You made the following statement:

"No, there were a couple of other Feasts who's observance was to be started the evening prior to the actual day - but NOT ALL the Feasts. What Feast are you referring to where observance was to start on the day prior to the Feast were there WASN'T instructions to do so?" 

You state that the timing of the feasts was not always the same i.e., the feast did not always begin as sunset. Another way of saying it would be "Different feasts began at different times." I asked you to provide an example where the Bible says a feast should begin at a time other than sunset. Can you do that?

 

I'd also like to mention that in the beginning, "darkness was upon the face of the deep."  The world began in darkness [like it's dark at night]. Then he said "Let there be light." The order of time from the creation started with darkness into which light was introduced. That indicates that the day begins with darkness. The timing of the DoA also begins with darkness--the evening.

 

Your question about the other feasts, I'm coming at this from the position that the Rabbinical Tradition today wasn't what the Ancient Israelite's followed from Moses through to the Babylonian captivity and in some cases well after that. I'll put something together - that hopefully you will find compelling. My answer as to the Feasts will be coming within a couple of days as WORK CALLS. 

As for the inception of the Creation the Scripture plainly states that after the creative acts evening and morning followed, heralding the next day. 

Genesis 1: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.  And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.  God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.  God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

This is describing, in chronological order, exactly what Moses wanted to relay to the people. God created light, named it AND THERE WAS evening and there was morning THE FIRST DAY. This would be like saying GHansen went to Yankee Stadium and watched the game "AND AFTER THAT"  whatever happens after you watched [past tense] literally happens AFTER you watched the game, NOT BEFORE.

Time started when God created light - Genesis 1 is explaining what followed after the light was created - it got dark again AND the morning came closing out the prior day - the 1st day of approximately 24 hours. Since this is getting pretty far afield of what I had hoped this thread would dig into I'll likely start a new thread. 

I'm somewhat surprised that there hasn't been more input on the understood distinction between the moral and ceremonial laws.  

 

 

 

[GHansen]

If this isn't something that interests you, no need to continue. It was you, however who raised this topic by suggesting that the Jews in the time of Christ followed a midnight to midnight reckoning which affected the timing of the Sabbath.   That's what I understood you to say. Maybe I misunderstood you.

The moral [Decalogue?] and ceremonial laws in the OT are more or less irrelevant today. In the NT, the teachings of Christ are what Christians are to follow. His teachings are the commandments. There are two commandments we are to follow: Believe in Jesus, love our fellow man. In the  gospel and epistles of John, the commandments he refers to are the  teachings of Christ. When we believe in Jesus and are justified, we receive the Holy Spirit which leads us into God's will. The Decalogue was an external code. The teachings of Christ are an internal "code."

I don't observe the Sabbath because of the Decalogue, I observe it because the day was sanctified in the Creation week.

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, GHansen said:

The moral [Decalogue?] and ceremonial laws in the OT are more or less irrelevant today. In the NT, the teachings of Christ are what Christians are to follow. His teachings are the commandments.

You are correct, The Commandments are not just moral. The Hebrew word Torah say they instructions, learning and understanding all of the principles of ELOHIM created Powers and policies. The sacrificial Law that require to kill animals in our place, could not take away sin. Now, we have become living sacrifices and not our blood but YAHSHUA can and will wipe away all sins. What are sins, the transgression of the Commandments. Example when you look in a mirror in the morning, you see a dirty face. The dirt is sin, the mirror is the Commandments that show you have sin. The water represents YAHSHUA BLOOD, the cloth is GRACE that we now have to forgive us of our sin. How, what the illustration does not show is THE POWER we have which is choice to stop sinning and if we do, then and then will we have salvation. Salvation will not be given until YAHSHUA returns. That's the reward HE brings to those who accepted THE HOLY SPIRIT that led them to truth and they choose to accept. They also stopped sinning. YAHSHUA knocked at their door and HIS coming HE bring to each and everyone salvation. That the reward for the righteous, now we are saved.

HALLELUYAH AMEN!

[Gustave]

12 hours ago, GHansen said:

If this isn't something that interests you, no need to continue. It was you, however who raised this topic by suggesting that the Jews in the time of Christ followed a midnight to midnight reckoning which affected the timing of the Sabbath.   That's what I understood you to say. Maybe I misunderstood you.

The moral [Decalogue?] and ceremonial laws in the OT are more or less irrelevant today. In the NT, the teachings of Christ are what Christians are to follow. His teachings are the commandments. There are two commandments we are to follow: Believe in Jesus, love our fellow man. In the  gospel and epistles of John, the commandments he refers to are the  teachings of Christ. When we believe in Jesus and are justified, we receive the Holy Spirit which leads us into God's will. The Decalogue was an external code. The teachings of Christ are an internal "code."

I don't observe the Sabbath because of the Decalogue, I observe it because the day was sanctified in the Creation week.

What I believe is that some Jews, at the time of Christ followed the sunrise to sunrise reckoning. There is no doubt in my mind that this was what was followed from the Exodus through to Babylonian captivity. I'm familiar enough with Judaism and have spent enough time on askmoses & chabad to know Rabbinical Judaism leverages much Tradition that melds with Jewish contemporary needs. I've started working on a post for the Passover and week following that I think will help you see better where I'm coming from. It's just going to take me some time as I work a full time plus job.