I did my best....

August 6, 2006

When I stand before the judgment seat of God, and the law of God says to me,

“Have you obeyed me?” I will not say to the law, “Well, I did my best.”

The law says, “I did not ask that question.”

“Well, I kept most of the law.”

The law will say, “I did not ask you that question either. Have you obeyed me in every detail?”

“Well, I goofed up a few times.”

And the law says, “I’m sorry, you must die. Once is enough.”

But I thank God I will not answer the law that way. I will say, “Yes, I have obeyed you perfectly.”

The law will say, “When did you obey me perfectly?”

“When I was in Christ. Then I had perfect obedience.”

But the law will say, “You’re a sinner, you must die.”

And I will say to the law, “Well I have bad news for you, I have already died.”

The law will say, “When did you die?”

I will quote to the law Galatians 2:20:

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live....

The law will say, “Well, if that’s your position, then you are free to live.”

And I will say to the law, “Thank you.”

August 6, 2006

The Law was our enemy after sin. Jesus has made it our friend.

"I delight in the Law of God after the inward man.."

olger

August 7, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

But the law will say, “You’re a sinner, you must die.”

And I will say to the law, “Well I have bad news for you, I have already died.”

The law will say, “When did you die?”

I will quote to the law Galatians 2:20:

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live....

[:"blue"]1.) If the "old man" Robert died, he would not be doing the same things he had been doing before.

2.) You left out a very important part of the verse, it is: [:"red"]"but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God..." [/]

(a) Christ lived obediently to His Father. If He lives in me, I through Him would be living obediently to the Father.

( Christ cannot be living in me if I continue to live disobediently to the Father. [/]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

The law will say, “Well, if that’s your position, then you are free to live.”

[:"blue"]Yep, set free from the dominion of Sin & Satan, the arch rebel, so now we are free to live obediently, by faith. [/]

Gerry

August 8, 2006

So you can stand before God's law and say, "I am blameless"?

August 8, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

So you can stand before God's law and say, "I am blameless"?

[:"blue"] Gerry died. The Christ who lives in me by faith does the works. He is blameless. It is His righteousness God sees. [/]

Gerry

August 9, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

So you can stand before God's law and say, "I am blameless"?

Gerry died. The Christ who lives in me by faith does the works. He is blameless. It is His righteousness God sees.

Gerry

So Gerry is living Christ's life and in the judgement God will allow Gerry into heaven because of these blameless works?

August 9, 2006

I have asked Him to live in me, "and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Gerry

August 9, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said: I have asked Him to live in me, "and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Since you are quoting Paul let's see if he was blameless because of the indwelling Spirit:

Phil 3:9 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Nope!

What does EGW say, are true believers blameless?

"All incense from earthly tabernacles [context: "true believers"] must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ [i.e., His righteousness]. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, [:"red"]in which there is no taint of earthly corruption[:"black"]. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ’s propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable." [1SM 344]

Nope!

August 10, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

Nope!

Seems like we've been around this tree before. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/dizzy.gif" alt="" />

[:"red"] "And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind." [/] Numbers 16:28 KJV

August 10, 2006

Rev 3:17 "you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked...."

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition, the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness. The testimony, so cutting and severe, cannot be a mistake, for it is the True Witness who speaks, and His testimony must be correct." [3T, 252]

August 10, 2006

"And you, who once were alienated and enemies in you mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and BLAMELESS, and above reproach in His sight - IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven...." Col 1:21-23 NKJ.

"For if i build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the FLESH I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly NOT! Gal 2:18-21, 17 NKJ.

Gerry

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

Rev 3:17 "you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked...."

A person who finds it necessary to draw there conclusions from the Spirit of prophecy after many years of contact with it's primary purpose of leading them to see God's Word as the greater light, all the while dismissing the major portion of the Holy Word as unnecessary for spiritual growth, as well as dismissing all those principles of the Word that conflict with their settled inconsistencies, cannot be looked to for revelations of the Divine nature no matter how many texts they present to belittle others.

[:"red"] "But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" [/]

Matt 4:4 NASB Emphasis theirs

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

LifeHiscost said:... no matter how many texts they present to belittle others..

You look at it as "belittling", but nevertheless a true understanding of the sin problem is the only sure way of destroying all confidence in self and turning to Christ as our only righteousness, hope, and surety.

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

<hr /></blockquote> Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

Note that the "flesh" and the "mind" were in harmony before conversion.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

22 yet He [Jesus] has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith...

Where did Jesus reconcile you? "In His fleshly body through death"! Why? "In order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach".

You are "holy and blameless" IN CHRIST or "In His fleshly body" as long as YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH!!! That's righteousness by faith. What a deal!

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said: "For if i build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor."

Let's look at the context:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gal 2:16 ....knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.

17 “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Paul has clearly established that no flesh will be justified by "the works of the law"! Verse 17 is a continuation of his point. Notice the phrase, "WHILE SEEKING TO BE JUSTIFIED". Why would a NT Christian "seek to be justified"? Well, he wouldn't be becase "in Christ" he already stands justified by faith alone.

If one takes the stand that he must some how "add" to Christ's perfect work he is then rejecting Christ's righteousness and seeking to establish his own. Such a person is no longer under grace, but rather law. Sinning while "under law" brings the curse. Either you represent yourself in the heavenly courts through your law keeping, or you let Christ do it! If Christ represents you by your faulty law keeping than He becomes a minister of sin. That's Paul's point.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

18 “For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 “For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God.

What is Paul saying?

If I, Paul, rebuild my legalistic past that I destroyed and enter back "under law" then according to the law I am a transgressor. Instead I, through the law, died to the law! As far as the law is concerned I am dead, killed by the law itself. Where did this happen?

Romans 7:4 "You also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ"

That's the context!

Rob

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said: 17 “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Why would a NT Christian "seek to be justified"? Well, he wouldn't be because "in Christ" he already stands justified by faith alone.

And those reject this truth fall under Paul's conclusion found in Galatians 5:4. Let's read that again:

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Does EGW agree with Paul?

"What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself."

God saved us "in Christ" and therefore He did for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself!

"When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ."

Until one gives up on the idea that anything he does can some how "add" to Christ's perfect righteousness, he remains under law and under the curse. That is to say that the law is his master, not Christ. He is a lost man!

That is why I use the law, especially this thing that you hate about selling all of one's possessions, to try to open your eyes as to the nature of sin.

We are sinners until our dying day no matter how much we grow. Until one accepts this truth he cannot be clothed with Christ's righteousness since in reality he clothes himself with his own, filthy righteousness.

"When they begin to praise and exalt God all the day long, then by beholding they are becoming changed into the same image."

If we are to experience change [i.e., as in becoming changed] Christ must be our righteousness in all that we do, period!

"What is regeneration? It is revealing to man what is his own real nature, that in himself he is worthless. These lessons you have never learned" [20MR 117]

End of story....

Rob

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

olger said:

The Law was our enemy after sin. Jesus has made it our friend.

"I delight in the Law of God after the inward man.."

olger

Let me quote Paul:

"Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?"

Let's look at the context of your reference:

Romans 7:22 I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [ Now the rest to the story:] 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am!

Yes, the NT Christian's mind/heart will be in harmony with the principle of God's law, but in reality he falls far short of its requirements.

You must understand that "Under law" there's only condemnation and death. Hence, in that respect, the law is not our friend. It can be our friend only because we are no longer under the law, but under grace.

Yes, you can use the law as measuring stick of righteousness; you can you the law a standard for Christian conduct, but that's because Christ has delivered from the law for "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Rob

August 11, 2006

If you think a believer can continue to sin willfully and still have assurance of salvation, then you might as well sin to your heart's content, because if you are wrong (and I am absolutely certain that you are), there is no sense in losing one's soul with sinning just a little bit.

Gerry

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

"When they begin to praise and exalt God all the day long, then by beholding they are becoming changed into the same image."

If we are to experience change [i.e., as in becoming changed] Christ must be our righteousness in all that we do, period!

"What is regeneration? It is revealing to man what is his own real nature, that in himself he is worthless. These lessons you have never learned" [20MR 117]

End of story....

Rob

[:"blue"]Uh, is that what being changed and regeneration mean? Just acknowledging that one is worthless? One looks at the mirror, sees himself looking despicable, acknwledges that, yes, he is filthy and looks despicable. But continues on in his merry way.

Good news? Who are you kidding? [/]

Gerry

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said: If you think a believer can continue to sin willfully....

Every time you get backed up into a theological corner you come out swinging with this "willful sin" haymaker.

Give it up, Gerry. You'll be in heaven because of what Christ did 2000 years ago. No credit for you.

Rob

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

LifeHiscost said:... no matter how many texts they present to belittle others..

You look at it as "belittling", but nevertheless a true understanding of the sin problem is the only sure way of destroying all confidence in self and turning to Christ as our only righteousness, hope, and surety.

Definitely agreed, Robert, And when God says it, the only time it might seem to belittle is when it is used by men to destroy His children's faith in God.

The Scripture used to assure that all men recognize their true position on this earth, I accept with shamed face before God, knowing it to be true of me. However God does not leave me there in my dissolute condition, but immediately tells me (as He does all who will listen to His voice) the present remedy for the malady.

[:"red"] " 14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne " [/] Rev 3:14-20 NASB

[:"red"] "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." [/] Phil 2:13 KJV

Has this been worked out by God to perfection at this moment of time. For me it is obviously, no. And so He imputes His righteousness to me (as to others) that I may be clean before Him in the record books of Heaven.

OTOH He also imparts righteousness that is a collaborative experience by united purpose of Almighty God and the humble suppliant, the purpose being the salvation of all who might come into contact with the believing disciple.

[:"red"] "And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord" [/] 1 Cor 1:28-31 KJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

all bold mine LHC

Blessings!!

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Good news? Who are you kidding? [/]

Gerry

That's why you and I are in different camps.

I know that I am a sinner...I know I fall short...I know that I am self-seeking. Yes, I also know that's there's a change...that there's an improvement, but my faith is not in my performance, it is in what Christ did in my humanity some 2000 years ago. That's good news for sinners like me.

If you make what He does in me the good news of salvation, then that news is conditional and always incomplete. Yes it's good that we can mature, but (as EGW states) as long as life lasts we will struggle with the flesh...we will have sins of repetition (besetting sins) to deal with. In a nutshell we ain't measuring up!!!!!!!!

So what He does in me is good, but its not complete. Therefore it is not "the good news"...it's nice, but incomplete. When I receive my new humanity, free from death and sin, then that's good news. Until then the gospel is the good news of salvation.

Rob

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

LifeHiscost said: However God does not leave me there in my dissolute condition, but immediately tells me (as He does all who will listen to His voice) the present remedy for the malady.

Your focus is on your performance! The remedy is Jesus Christ. "In Him" we are complete! In yourself you are coming up short, continually!

August 11, 2006

You keep twisting what others say. NO ONE is depending/bragging about their performance!!!

You make God a liar by saying He pronounces people sinless, blameless & above reproach when in fact that person remains essentially the same! Look up the words "change" & "regeneration". We've covered "besetting sins" before. You have set your own definitions, so until you conform to accepted dictionary definitions, let's not waste our time going over the same ground.

It is not good news that your god has no power to set people free from sin.

Gerry

August 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Good news? Who are you kidding? [/]

Gerry

That's why you and I are in different camps.

I know that I am a sinner...I know I fall short...I know that I am self-seeking. Yes, I also know that's there's a change...that there's an improvement, but my faith is not in my performance, it is in what Christ did in my humanity some 2000 years ago. That's good news for sinners like me.

[:"blue"]I also know I am a sinner. I also know I fall short. I have no faith in my performance. But I also know that Jesus has the power to save/set me free from sin, that I no longer need to live a rebel's life. And that is better news for me. [/] <blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If you make what He does in me the good news of salvation, then that news is conditional and always incomplete.

[:"blue"]It is not good news if God pronounces as righteous/blameless/above reproach people who continue to live the same old lie/life. As James says, faith is made complete/perfect by what it does. A faith that does not work is DEAD! That is his point!!! [/]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Yes it's good that we can mature, but (as EGW states) as long as life lasts we will struggle with the flesh...we will have sins of repetition (besetting sins) to deal with. In a nutshell we ain't measuring up!!!!!!!!

[:"blue"]No overcoming? No victories? Same old, same old? One minute after entering the gates of heaven, will you measure up then? After a billion years in the new earth, will you measure up then? Be like God?[/]

Gerry

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