The Recording Angel

[LifeHiscost]

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rudywoofs said:

::sigh:: <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My life can not be ruined, because, cleverly, I have no life.

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It's when we come to that conclusion that Jesus is ready to take our hand, reaching out to be saved. The drowning person isn't as demanding as the one who believes they still have enough to buy their way out of difficulty.

[:"red"] "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" [/] Matthew 16:26 KJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[LifeHiscost]

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Naomi said:

Stan,

because the angels will record it and we will one day have to gie an account.

will have to account for every idle word.

Naomi

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[:"red"] "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." [/] Matthew 12:36 KJV

Only those words we have not sent on ahead in repentance will be brought back to haunt us.

[:"red"] "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." [/] 1 John 1:9 KJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[Nicodema]

I'm curious as to how exactly that is supposed to work, LHC. Because when I have been in a repentant frame of mind concerning such things, it is then that I am haunted and tormented by them. When I leave that frame of mind, it no longer bothers me. Which is not to say I don't care -- it is just to say that when I realize I've spoken something amiss to someone I acknowledge it and move on, and it doesn't keep hounding me.

When I try to pursue the Christian walk and repent of things it is then that everything is blown up and magnified all out of proportion in my mind. Every tiny thing even remotely sinful seems overwhelming in scope, and things long past that I can do nothing about now just destroy me over and over and over again, sending me into utter terror and torture inside. Praying about it only seems to make it worse.

But when I leave all that stuff behind, I have peace. So like if I drift away from the Christian walk and start to think more rationally/scientifically, pursuing just my regular pasttimes and not seeking Christ or whatever, then that stuff doesn't bother me.

I know the standard cliche answer is to claim it's the devil doing this to make me not want to be with Christ. But honestly, that's just not good enough. It seems to me 1 John 1:9 ought to be what is experienced, and especially if we consider Jesus to be more powerful than the accuser.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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When I try to pursue the Christian walk and repent of things it is then that everything is blown up and magnified all out of proportion in my mind. Every tiny thing even remotely sinful seems overwhelming in scope, and things long past that I can do nothing about now just destroy me over and over and over again, sending me into utter terror and torture inside. Praying about it only seems to make it worse.

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that's how it seems to me too.. and I start to think, "why bother?" <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Gail]

Nico and Pam, why not hold to Bible promises of God's mercy? (Before I saw this I just happened to post not one but TWO mercy promises in the Bible Promises forum! Good timing)

[Gail]

The Lord gives us a conscience and I praise Him that yours is working. It shows our need of a Saviour

But don't stop there! Look past your darkness to the Lord whose blood was shed to pay the price of the guilt of the sins which weigh you down so heavily.

His sacrifice was for YOU. Every time you feel the oppression of the weight of your sins, you can take hold of God's mercy to cleanse and forgive you of all that. It is for you always but especially at those times

[Nicodema]

Holding to promises is not the same thing as experiencing their fulfillment, Gail.

Do you want a relationship with someone who actively, consistently, tangibly, experientially DEMONSTRATES love to you? Or someone who keeps telling you that you're loved and to just believe it, while he continues to inexplicably withhold the active experiential manifestation of the fact?

I appreciate your input and desire to be an encouragement -- I honestly do! -- but this doesn't FIX the problem, nor answer as to why, if repentance brings the response of forgiveness and washing away of those things, the penitent God-seeking mind is tortured while the casual but not without conscience mind focused on other things or functioning from other perspectives has the mature healthy balance of acknowledging an issue when it arises, owning up, making amends if possible, and moving on -- the way a healthy person ought.

This has been my experience and it sounds like it's been Pam's to some degree as well, judging by her post.

It's something of a deal breaker. If being around someone constantly makes me feel bad about myself and miserable about everything wrong I've ever done, and continually conscious of such things with no relief, I'm inclined to gravitate away from such a person, and seek other company.

[Gail]

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Holding to promises is not the same thing as experiencing their fulfillment, Gail.

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The fulfillment will come- either that or God is a liar and not faithful, just, merciful and all those other things that Christians and Scripture declare Him to be

[melvin mccarty]

Where I went to church in the long ago whenever there was a "testimony service" as it was called there was one person who would stand up and weep and confess how wicked he was and every time it was the same story I dont know if he ever did discover the joy of being forgiven. It was sooo embarrasing to us youngsters!

mel

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

I'm curious as to how exactly that is supposed to work, LHC. Because when I have been in a repentant frame of mind concerning such things, it is then that I am haunted and tormented by them.

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One of the scenarios, Nico, that at one time or another I've felt would be so worthwhile is one where the people who have so much faith were just given the power to set aside a large bundle of their faith they were moved to be generous with, give it to someone who they felt might appreciate it, then watch the marvelous change that would come because of the transaction.

Obviously that's just an imagined fairytale, and not listed among the miracles our Father is so willing to grant to every seeker. However I can assure you that the person who keeps their eye on Jesus as revealed in His Word, is guaranteed to find success in the end(as well as successes along the way).

Whenever I become emotionally involved in a manner that reveals more heat, and/or cold, than light, there are some promises of God's that I claim as mine by His prompting.

Probably the most essential promise is, 1 John 4:8 KJV[:"red"] "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." [/]

I know that if my actions or inner motivations reveal in me the lack of this cornerstone of faith, I need to sincerely ask Him to make it a reality in me so I can honor Him, which essentially means revealng enough of Him by my behavior to influence others to accept Him as Savior and Lord.

As you undoubtedly recognize, often I don't meet that goal. So the next best stabilizer for me is to accept another essential promise. John 3:17 NKJV [:"red"] " For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." [/]

Having accepted that promise, then I follow your practice, which is also accepting one of God's promises practiced by the apostle Paul. Phil 3:13-15 KJV [:"red"] "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." [/]

I'm supposing that every one of those promises listed has to be a result of accepting one other, which to this day I've accepted as a reasonable request by Jesus. Rom 10:17 NASB [:"red"] " So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." [/]

I could go on and on, but most people just consider that more <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/preach.gif" alt="" /> and this is the result. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/sleeping3.gif" alt="" /> And that reveals one of the principles of why faith isn't something we can just box up and give to someone else.

Keep looking up!!

[:"red"] "And I, if I am lifted up...., will draw all men to Myself." [/] John 12:32 NASB

[:"red"] " And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved." [/] Acts 4:12 ASV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

Blessings!!

[Nicodema]

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LifeHiscost said:

Whenever I become emotionally involved in a manner that reveals more heat, and/or cold, than light, there are some promises of God's that I claim as mine by His prompting.

Probably the most essential promise is, 1 John 4:8 KJV[:"red"] "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." [/]

I know that if my actions or inner motivations reveal in me the lack of this cornerstone of faith, I need to sincerely ask Him to make it a reality in me so I can honor Him, which essentially means revealng enough of Him by my behavior to influence others to accept Him as Savior and Lord.

As you undoubtedly recognize, often I don't meet that goal. So the next best stabilizer for me is to accept another essential promise...

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I don't know where all of this is coming from, LHC. I don't believe I said anything in my previous post criticizing you personally. I asked a question about something you posted, is all.

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

Holding to promises is not the same thing as experiencing their fulfillment.

Do you want a relationship with someone who actively, consistently, tangibly, experientially DEMONSTRATES love to you? Or someone who keeps telling you that you're loved and to just believe it, while he continues to inexplicably withhold the active experiential manifestation of the fact?

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I've found that if I expect to wait till all the rest of the world becomes perfect before experiencing fulfillment of the promises He's given me, there is no promise that tells me I have eternity to see that happen.

However I did claim another promise which gave me over 25 years of peaceful habitation with the love of my life, though it took a lot of patience and trust and grace before it actually unfolded.

[:"red"] "...whatever a man sows, this he will also reap." [/] Galatians 6:7 NASB

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If being around someone constantly makes me feel bad about myself and miserable about everything wrong I've ever done, and continually conscious of such things with no relief, I'm inclined to gravitate away from such a person, and seek other company.

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Sounds like a smart move to me, if it's possible. OTOH it wasn't until I began concentrating on Jesus as a helper when I didn't seem to be making any headway, that others began to look more like people that were worth making a special effort for, as Jesus made special effort for me.

[:"red"]...apart from me ye can do nothing. [/] John 15:5 ASV

[:"red"] "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves" [/] Philippians 2:3 NASB

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

Keep looking up!!

[Nicodema]

LHC I think you totally missed the point of my illustration. *sigh* But it's OK, I love you anyway.

[Neil D]

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I'm curious as to how exactly that is supposed to work, LHC. Because when I have been in a repentant frame of mind concerning such things, it is then that I am haunted and tormented by them. When I leave that frame of mind, it no longer bothers me. Which is not to say I don't care -- it is just to say that when I realize I've spoken something amiss to someone I acknowledge it and move on, and it doesn't keep hounding me.

When I try to pursue the Christian walk and repent of things it is then that everything is blown up and magnified all out of proportion in my mind. Every tiny thing even remotely sinful seems overwhelming in scope, and things long past that I can do nothing about now just destroy me over and over and over again, sending me into utter terror and torture inside. Praying about it only seems to make it worse.

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So let me get this straight....

As you pursue the Christian life, where you pray for forgiveness of sin, and you dwell over the sins that you have committed, you are mulling over every detail, bring it before Christ and asking for forgiveness and claiming promises and thinking over the problems that you have created and communicating them to the Godhead asking to be forgiven of these things that you have done.

Is that a fair mirroring of the Christian Life as you understand it?

And, to contrast the'other' life, if you decide that you have messed up, and are not pursuing the Christian life of repentance, you just acknowledge it and move on...IOWs, you mess up [whatever it was], make resistution, learn from it and move on. Is that a fair understanding of what you are attempting to protray here?

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

it's OK, I love you anyway.

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Thank you. Like you, it's what I need more than anything else. Plus the ability to know that God's plans are still working out when I can't see that mine are.

Blessings!!

[Nicodema]

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Neil D said:So let me get this straight....

Is that a fair understanding of what you are attempting to protray here?

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It's pretty close, yes. The only thing I would amend would be your portrayal of the first half, to which I would add an additional component. In addition to the elements you outlined about thinking over and praying about such things in seasons of repentance, there is also the whole underlying continual awareness of those things and their ramifications percolating beneath the surface and randomly, spontaneously emerging to consume my thoughts and overwhelm me, even if I was not consciously directing my mind there whatsoever. It will come up unbidden and make a wreck of me, regardless of how thorough a work is made during the times of repentance and praying.

Whereas yes, in the "other life" scenario -- you recognize a mistake, you apologize, own up, try to fix it if you can (if it can be fixed) and move on -- but perhaps more importantly, you aren't devastated by things that cannot be fixed or that are long past, or both. You see them as such and don't waste time wallowing in self-recrimination and regret. Sure you might from time to time think about it, remember, and wish you'd done things better or differently, but then you keep on going forward with your life. It doesn't eat you alive.

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

I don't know where all of this is coming from, LHC. I don't believe I said anything in my previous post criticizing you personally. I asked a question about something you posted, is all.

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[:"red"] "...A time to be silent and a time to speak." [/] Ecclesiastes 3:7 KJV

And I'll let you guess where I think I need to be. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/mittelgr124.gif" alt="" />

Blessings!!

[Naomi]

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Nicodema said:

.................

Whereas yes, in the "other life" scenario -- you recognize a mistake, you apologize, own up, try to fix it if you can (if it can be fixed) and move on -- .........

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I think I am missing something here. When we go to God in sincere prayer, confess our sins, they are forgiven ... washed away ... they never existed.

What is the difference?

The ABC's of prayer:

Ask ... sincerely for forgiveness

Believe ... believe that we are forgiven

Claim ... his promise to forgive us

Naomi

[Nicodema]

That's not how I have experienced things though -- hence the discussion.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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When we go to God in sincere prayer, confess our sins, they are forgiven ... washed away ... they never existed.

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Then why is that angel busy recording every *idle word* and I'm going to have to give an accounting for it all at judgment time??? I don't understand that at all. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Nicodema]

Good question, Pam. Yet another inherent contradiction between sound theology and SDA folklore.

Maybe the only real purpose of religion is to teach you what to escape from.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Maybe the only real purpose of religion is to teach you what to escape from.

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geez...I hope not..

[Bravus]

Broke my leg riding my motorbike stupidly when I was young and stupid... but it still has plates and screws and calluses and gets sore when it's about to rain.

Did some of the same sort of stuff to my soul, and although I'm 100% convinced I'm forgiven, it still aches before a thunderstorm sometimes...

[Nicodema]

ha ... mine does more than ache. it fugues.

[Amelia]

My poor recording angel probably stopped writing a long time ago since I am sure the pen and paper burned up with all the crud I did and have done over the years.