Did Adam really become as God??

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

In Genesis 3 it talks about the Fall of Man, when the serpent tempted Eve and she ate and gave some to Adam and he ate, then they found out they were naked and hid from God. But then in verse 22 it says that "And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'"

Who is God talking to? And did Adam REALLY become as God??????? Was the only thing God could do to keep Adam from becoming forever as God was to keep him from eating of the tree of life? I dont understand this at all!!! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[there buster]

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The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

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Before they sinned, Adam and Eve knew only good. After they sineed, they knew evil, too. So, in that particular way, they became like God, in that now they knew both good and evil.

[Nicodema]

Pam I have a question to tack onto your question ... since the SERPENT said once they ate the fruit, their eyes would be opened and they would be like gods, knowing good and evil ... did the SERPENT LIE OR NOT??? After all, God Himself ratifies the Serpent's statement by stating so Himself, "Now the man is become like one of Us, to know good and evil..."

So it seems the Serpent was telling the truth about that part. The only part that was a LIE was when the Serpent said "you shall not surely die." But if you think about it, if "DIE" is interpreted as drop dead right there & then from eating it, the Serpent was telling the truth there too!!! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[there buster]

This is a case of very subtle deception, by stating the truth in such a way as to mislead.

The serpent said, "You shall be as God, knowing good from evil." But that's the only way the would be like God. In every other way, they would be less godlike. Indeed, they became less human.

But he also said, "You shall not surely die." But they did die, in two ways. One, they forfeited immortality, as indicated by their immediate awareness that they were naked.

Second, if Jesus had not guaranteed their salvation by agreeing to die in their place "before the foundation of the Earth," they would have died right there. This was symbolized by the animal skins which covered them.

Having forfieted their covering of righteousness and light, this would have to be replaced--via the death of Jesus--with His righteousness.

So they received the death sentence the moment they sinned, and had to suffer the first death in time because of it. And they would have suffered eternal separation from God and eternal death, had not Jesus pledged his own life to save them eternally.

So it was indeed a lie, a very subtle deception.

Some he tells they can choose to be like God, and some he tells they have no hope.

[Nicodema]

And some apparently He tells both. At the same time. As T.S. Eliot put it, "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?"

[there buster]

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"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?"

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[:"red"]I want you to know, my very dear friends,

that it is on account of this resurrected Jesus

that the forgiveness of your sins can be promised.

He accomplishes,

in those who believe,

everything that the Law of Moses could never make good on.

But everyone who believes in this raised-up Jesus

is declared good and right and whole before God. [/] Acts 13:37-39, The Message

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

but waittaminnut...

Wasn't the only reason they would die was because God then forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of life? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[there buster]

If you read the text, they immediately knew they were naked. That awareness signaled that they had ceased to trust God, and trusted the Serpent instead.

After all, they did what the serpent said, not what God said. So they had shifted their allegiance. But there was nothing extraordinary about the Tree of Life except that it was God's tree. Eating from that tree demonstrated their dependence on and trust in God. They had already ceased trusting God, and thus, eating from the Tree of Life.

All this is a little too subtle for Moses' audience of Egyptian slaves, so the explanation about the eating from the Tree of Life is included to explain why they had to leave the Garden. But the central reason was that it was God's garden--he had planted it-- and by renouncing their allegiance to Him they forfeited their easy life there.

And think how cruel it would have been to let them live forever in sin! An eternity of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing one another--that would truly be hell.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Ed Dickerson said:

If you read the text, they immediately knew they were naked. That awareness signaled that they had ceased to trust God, and trusted the Serpent instead.

After all, they did what the serpent said, not what God said. So they had shifted their allegiance. But there was nothing extraordinary about the Tree of Life except that it was God's tree. Eating from that tree demonstrated their dependence on and trust in God. They had already ceased trusting God, and thus, eating from the Tree of Life.

All this is a little too subtle for Moses' audience of Egyptian slaves, so the explanation about the eating from the Tree of Life is included to explain why they had to leave the Garden. But the central reason was that it was God's garden--he had planted it-- and by renouncing their allegiance to Him they forfeited their easy life there.

And think how cruel it would have been to let them live forever in sin! An eternity of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing one another--that would truly be hell.

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::nods:: that makes sense

I need to think about this all some more though..

[Amelia]

The devil gives you just enough truth to hang yourself.

[Naomi]

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Amelia said:

The devil gives you just enough truth to hang yourself.

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Amen ... In more ways than one.

[Nicodema]

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rudywoofs said:

but waittaminnut...

Wasn't the only reason they would die was because God then forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of life? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

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PRECISELY.

You are seeing truly here.

[Nicodema]

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Ed Dickerson said:

And think how cruel it would have been to let them live forever in sin! An eternity of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing one another--that would truly be hell.

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But not if they believed in redemption to come ... right?

Or not.

[David Koot]

Who is God talking to? And did Adam REALLY become as God???????

Indeed, the Scripture quotes God as saying, 'Behold,they have become as one of Us,to know good and evil." They did become as gods. In what sense? It says, 'to know good and evil.'

I was very curious about this some years ago, so did a word study. I researched every occurrence of the Hebrew word rendered 'know' in this passage. I discovered that it has a distinctive flavor. The sense I got, from its usage pattern, (semantic range) is that it suggests 'deciding for oneself.' IOW not accepting what God says is good and evil, but deciding for themselves what is good and evil. They were saying that they knew better than God. They were usurping the role of God.

Dave

[there buster]

But not if they believed in redemption to come ... right?

Or not.

I don't understand the question.

[Nicodema]

I researched every occurrence of the Hebrew word rendered 'know' in this passage. I discovered that it has a distinctive flavor. The sense I got, from its usage pattern, (semantic range) is that it suggests 'deciding for oneself.' IOW not accepting what God says is good and evil, but deciding for themselves what is good and evil. They were saying that they knew better than God. They were usurping the role of God.

That's actually a really cool answer. Good work Dave. :cheer:

[Nicodema]

Originally Posted By: Nicodema

But not if they believed in redemption to come ... right?

Or not.

I don't understand the question.

You said how cruel it would have been to make them live eternally in sin. Redemption is supposed to fix all that, right? Transformation of oneself and one's character? So with that, living forever would NOT have been a proposition of "an eternity of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing one another--...truly ... hell"

Or is that really just ... empty promises ... thats what the "or not..." was on about.

[Robert]

Wasn't the only reason they would die was because God then forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of life?

I see your point....So that would be conditional immortality. Nevertheless, the death God warned of wasn't our first death...it was "the 2nd death." Because Jesus stepped in and took the curse, we only die the 1st death. If Adam would have died the 2nd death we wouldn't be here.

[there buster]

Quote:

Redemption is supposed to fix all that, right? Transformation of oneself and one's character? So with that, living forever would NOT have been a proposition of "an eternity of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing one another--...truly ... hell"

Redemption "fixes" it, but only for those who so choose, and is a gradual process even then. So they would have lived in a society where the vast majority refused redemption. And they --Adam and Eve-- would have known that every death, every disease, every bit of pain and suffering came about because of their choice.

We look at a wolrd with plagues, natural disasters, and massacres, and feel frustrated that we can do so little to stop them. Adam and Eve would have to witness all this knowing they were responsible, that not only could they have done something to stop it, but they had done the one thing that caused it.

Every day, I see families in denial, whose children are causing and experiencing pain that their mistaken choices has caused. They are in denial because they cannot face the pain of accepting responsibility. Adam and Eve, would have had to face that pain, multiplied by billions.

[Nicodema]

So death, then, is the ultimate cop-out?

[there buster]

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So death, then, is the ultimate cop-out?

No, I'd say cynicism is.

[Neil D]

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I was very curious about this some years ago, so did a word study. I researched every occurrence of the Hebrew word rendered 'know' in this passage. I discovered that it has a distinctive flavor. The sense I got, from its usage pattern, (semantic range) is that it suggests 'deciding for oneself.' IOW not accepting what God says is good and evil, but deciding for themselves what is good and evil. They were saying that they knew better than God. They were usurping the role of God.

This post bothers me....

What I am recieving from this post is that man is to submit to God without thinking...That if I do not submit to God's rules immediately, that I am my own god. In desiring to be the master of my own destiny and exploring the world, I am my own God.

Which goes against my understanding where God calls us to "come and let us reason together"...And together, thru reasoning, man comes to trust God and realize that God's rules are for his good. It is thru interaction with God that we come to experience the fulness of OUR being. Thru our interaction with God, we loose the pride, fear, guilt and the shame, and it is replaced with kindness, hope, love and grace.

At least, that is my understanding....

[Nicodema]

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So death, then, is the ultimate cop-out?

No, I'd say cynicism is.

Were you calling me cynical and/or implying I am? Or was that my head doing eisegesis?

[David Koot]

What I am recieving from this post is that man is to submit to God without thinking...That if I do not submit to God's rules immediately, that I am my own god. In desiring to be the master of my own destiny and exploring the world, I am my own God.

I believe that God wants us to be master of our own destinies and to explore the world. I don't see that as the problem in this case. What does appear to be the problem was, firstly, calling God a liar (as the serpent suggested) and, secondly, deciding that they knew better than God.

[there buster]

You asked a question, I answered. As I thought about it, it seemed to me that cynicism is the ultimate cop-out.