True Jesus?

[David Koot]

For as long as I can remember, I have prayed to God the Father in Jesus' name. I have read Christ's instruction in the gospel of John, to make our requests to the Father in Jesus' name. That ha seemed rather clearcut to me. However, in recent months I have heard the idea presented, that we should pray, not in Jesus' name, but in the name of 'True Jesus.' The reason for that, I was told, is the belief that the demons do not acknowledge the authority of 'Jesus' name' because there are counterfeit christ, hence one must use the name 'true Jesus' so that the demons will acknowledge Christ's authority. Or, something to that effect.

Has anyone else heard of this idea? What do you think of it?

Dave

[Yong T Tay]

There is a church known as True Jesus Church, but it is not necessary the true Church. I think we pray in the name of Jesus is enough. God knows who we mean when we say Jesus.

yongttay

[Naomi]

Somehow I think lthe demons acknowledge the authority of the name of Jesus, of The Father and of The Son, If you feel more at ease praying in the name of "True Jesus" than I see nothing wrong with it. However, I think in the precious name of Jesus will ge tthe message through to all demons.

Yes, everything can be a counterfeit ... in the eyes of man ... the evil one can counterfeit. He can not give life. Our Bibles tell us what is true, what is not counterfeit, the signs to look for ... our road map, if you will.

My answer is an overkill ... however, one last thought and that is that I think we give the devil too much credit. If we spend more time in our communication and focus on God our Father we will see less of the evil old devil.

[gina i]

I think it's silly. Jesus is enough. Are people convinced that by doing that we're 'fooling' them. Jesus is Jesus is Jesus.

The problem I have is when people don't pray to God (Lord), but that's another issue in itself.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi David,

I have not really heard of that myself but I can't at this point see any reason to start calling Jesus, "True Jesus" It sounds a little superstitous.

Jesus told us that there would be false christs and John told us there would be anti christs and they were already in the world.

Do we give power to the enemy by changing Jesus' name to "True Jesus"? What happens when the are many false "True Jesus'" What do we call Him then?

At the name of Jesus demons flee. I have seen it.

One things I have noticed though is that when Jesus' name is used by Paul, most of the time he follows it by Christ or he says, Christ Jesus. That was important for the Jews as the word Christ translates, Messiah

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Norman

[David Koot]

As I reflected on the concept, that we should pray in the name of 'true Jesus,' I felt like doing so was somehow giving power to satan, somehow playing by his rules. I decided that it was not necessary to do so, and in fact, that it wasnt a good idea to. I felt like once a person starts down that road, more and more 'requirements' could come up. A person would be playing their game.

I also believe that God is far more powerful than satan, and that at the name of Jesus, satan flees. Even the demons acknowledged Jesus' power, and there was no need in His day to refer to Him as 'True Jesus.' Nor did He ever instruct His disciples to pray to the Father in the name of 'true Jesus.'

So, my tentative conclusion is that the belief that a person MUST pray only in the name of 'True Jesus' is unscriptural, and can give satan power over a person which he otherwise wouldn't have.

But, I am willing to be shown otherwise!

Dave

[mrs.rabbi]

~Shalom~

Judaic Christianity is based upon the foundations of *Biblical Hebrew* here is as you look further back into the Aramaic Scholars DO study Biblical Hebrew,and Greek to preserve accuracy AND correctness within context AND interpretation.

KJV is an early attempt by early conservative ENGLISH church fathers to establish an approachable norm for the common domain; KJV does NOT replace or compare To or WITH the Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic text.

*G-d is NOT CONSERVATIVE; He is VERY REAL;He is VERY HONEST.

*No shadow of turning means that He has NO REGRETS and IS SURE in His Decisions.

*There is NO DARKNESS in Him*

These are things you will NOT learn in some mainstream Bible college unless yu have one of the very few true Biblical Hebrew scholars to lead you through the *fine points* of the subject AND language along with the culture AND context.

The fabric of Judaic Christianity is *foundational*

It shouts *THE NAME* in Holy awe AND whispers the prayer *Thy Will be done* ...DAILY.

The NATIONS shall bow down..EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW; The darkness flees!

*Though YOU we push back the darkness; thorugh YOUR NAME we trample our foes*

What COMMANDER would send soldiers into battle without the skills and weapons to accomplish the task that is set before them?

The fault of why some demonic oppression is not haulted by The Name...? It may be the messenger is not following the right commander; military force depends uponstradegies that predicate authority in rank and for the goal of functional completion.

What name are you using and still standing in the dark? Certainly NOT the NAME Of The Light Of The World...Who lights EVERY man that comes into the world.

I had a dream once. I was walking down our street at night and there were eyes all around and voices speaking out *Get back! It's The NAME*

Light displaces the darkness with MORE light!

We are robed in Absolute Truth when we walk in The Light; when we are in the Light we hide nothing and are ~clothed in~ The NAME.

*Clothed in*literally means: to be woven into the fabric of...*

This same term is relationally used to demonstrate UNITY in marriage.

A man is not to clothe (himself = his wife) with violence.

Violence is NOT to be woven into the fabric of the marital union.

To Bless The L-rd is the same as a husband is to bless his wife at the city gates.

Rememeber that we are to clothe each other with blessing..BECAUSE of THE NAME.

When we rise to Bless THE NAME we DO become lights who reverberate G-d's LOVE throughout the Universedisplacing the darkness and making a difference.

~ShabbatShalom~

Sincerely,*mrs.rabbi*

ClearJewel/HealthyHebrew

HealthyHebrew@teachfitness.com

[gina i]

How come you don't spell out God or Lord?

[cardw]

I think the whole idea of literally using Jesus' name as some sort of magic incantation is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if one uses Jesus, Joshua, true Jesus, messiah, morning star, good shepherd, etc. etc.

I think we need to grow up and realize that the spiritual world works on a much more intelligent basis than running from the name Jesus. That isn't the actual name anyway. Its a translation of the literal name. I think that we can assume that they didn't exacly speak English in the 1st century.

Richard

[John317]

For as long as I can remember, I have prayed to God the Father in Jesus' name. I have read Christ's instruction in the gospel of John, to make our requests to the Father in Jesus' name. That ha seemed rather clearcut to me. However, in recent months I have heard the idea presented, that we should pray, not in Jesus' name, but in the name of 'True Jesus.' The reason for that, I was told, is the belief that the demons do not acknowledge the authority of 'Jesus' name' because there are counterfeit christ, hence one must use the name 'true Jesus' so that the demons will acknowledge Christ's authority. Or, something to that effect.

Has anyone else heard of this idea? What do you think of it?

Dave

I have never heard of such an idea and frankly I don't accept it because there is no Biblical evidence to support it. The demons do definitely acknowledge the authority of Jesus' name because they know Christ is all powerful. We can use the same words that the Apostle Paul used in Acts 16: 18, etc. The problem arises when the person using it is known by the demons to be without true faith in God and in Christ. That's what's really most important.

Actually, it is OK to pray directly to Jesus Christ, also. He is God and the Creator of the Universe, and the New Testament gives us evidence that the early church prayed to Jesus at times. I think it's important to understand that there is nothing wrong in praying to Jesus.

After all, we have the examples of Stephen (Acts 7:39); Saint Paul (2 Cor. 12:8), and the instructions in 1 Cor. 1:2 about "all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours." If you compare the Greek word that is translated "call on the name" (Epikaleomai-- to invoke) with its use in the New Testament as well as in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (Ps. 145:18), you will find that it is used to describe prayer to God. At 2 Tim. 2:22, the same word may be understood to be prayer to Jesus or to the Father.

2 Thess. 2:16 is a prayer to Jesus that He would comfort the hearts of Paul's readers. Other instances of prayers to Jesus may be found at Revelation 5:8 and 22: 20.

[mrs.rabbi]

~Shalom~

Omission of certain letters is an observable reverence by Biblically Observant Jews. This you may see to some degree OR not when reading posts by those who ahe some Hebrew background and exposure.

So as Moses removed his shoes when standing on hjoly ground at Shavout recieving teh comandments so to NOT pronounce *THE NAME*

is out of a tender and awesome *reverence* for the holness of

G-d.

Thank you for asking.

Sincerely,CJ*mrs.rabbi*

ClearJewel/HealthyHebrew

HealthyHebrew@teachfitness.com

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Mrs Rabbi,

Quote:

Omission of certain letters is an observable reverence by Biblically Observant Jews. This you may see to some degree OR not when reading posts by those who ahe some Hebrew background and exposure

Please don't take this as an attack or insult, but if the Apostle Paul, who wrote theses words could......

"Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." Phi 3:4-6

If Paul who was the one of the greatest Apostles who lived and certainly a flawless Jew could call Him God, why would you not?

Am I missing something?

Norman

[Look Alive!]

The "true Jesus" idea might be helpful to focus someone's mind on the distinction between who Jesus REALLY is and who some make Him out to be -- but that would only be useful to someone who had suffered serious spiritual abuse to where they need a device like that to help keep the mind on track. When I feel like the world, the flesh or the devil is trying to push a wrong idea of who Jesus is, a substitute Jesus, a not-real Jesus, and impress it forcefully upon my mind through coercion, cruelty, harshness, or some other evil device, I sometimes find it helpful to think in terms of "true Jesus". I don't see anything wrong with doing it BUT I don't see ANY reason to turn it into a dogmatic thing and insist everyone must do it or they aren't praying to the right Jesus, either. That would be silly. Jesus knows who is His and who is calling upon Him. As for demons or whatever it's not a question of whether they acknowledge the authority of the Name so much as whether they acknowledge the authority of the one using it. If Christlikeness is not present in heart and manifest character? You'll have your typical "seven sons of Sceva" routine for sure.

Just my tuppence.

[mrs.rabbi]

~Shalom Norman~

I'm not sure what you think you are missing.

Jesus is considered *the express image of the invisable G-d*

*The NAME* is was and will be considered HOLY; how much more TRUE do you seek and proof of His FAITHFULNESS?

He Who IS FAITHFUL AND TRUE has nothing to hide or change to make Himself presntable to theose He came to seek and save.

The point is this: G-d makes Himself and His Redeemer approachable with awe= holy fear NOT holy terror.

He is not coming as a stranger in the night; His message of LOVE is clearly COME ALL Who are heavey laden and I will give you rest.

The Truely Faithful, The Truely True,agrees with he Spirit and The Bride invitations reads *COME*

The True Jesus is not self seeking; He came to seek and save the lost.

Sincerely,CJ*mrs.rabbi*

ClearJewel/HealthyHebrew

HealthyHebrew@teachfitness.com

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi mrs rabbi,

I think you missed my point, I am in agreement with the holiness of God and His name. Let me explain.

Paul who was much more aquainted with God the you or I and knew more about the laws and the holiness of God than you or I, had no problem in calling The Father, Abba or God.

If this "type" of respect was neccessary, (not that we shouldn't respect God) wouldn't he have made some kind of referrence to this in his writings? And Jesus, wouldn't He have said something about this? Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. (Character)

I am pushy, I know, but I am wondering how you can justify this if those who were before us and greater than us didn't do it, why should we? It seems almost superstitous. "Don't say His full name or else..." As for Moses, he was told to take off his shoes because he was on holy ground. We have no command to take off our shoes nor to refrain from calling Him Father, Lord, Abba or God. We are called to love Him and that includes reverence and respect when addressing Him or using His name. The commandment says thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain. That guides us to see that we can use His name, only not in vain.

I say all this to say, If we who love God begin to errect "our" ideas of how we should address God, that are not seen in the Bible, or commanded, we then change God in our minds and soon enough we will have a different understanding of Him than that of the true God. This was the one of the problems that the Pharisees had, traditions, traditions, traditions while making the commandments of God of none effect.

Scripture tells us that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall saved. Jesus Christ the Son of the living God. Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Of course it's you choice to do as you please, I am voicing my thoughts.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Look Alive,

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Quote:

The "true Jesus" idea might be helpful to focus someone's mind on the distinction between who Jesus REALLY is and who some make Him out to be

Well that might work; but I have found that when trying to help people who are having spiritual problems; taking them to this verse or verses in the Bible, will help them to be rooted in the word and finding their source of strength in the word rather than my ideas. But if calling JESUS, true Jesus will work as a discription of Him being the One and Only, that's great. But to use or change to that name now because of false christs or false Jesuses, well would be adding to God's word. Gabriel commanded Joseph to call His name JESUS, this was not a suggestion or to use this name until false Christs sullied His name.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Norman

[John317]

~Shalom~

Omission of certain letters is an observable reverence by Biblically Observant Jews. This you may see to some degree OR not when reading posts by those who ahe some Hebrew background and exposure.

So as Moses removed his shoes when standing on hjoly ground at Shavout recieving teh comandments so to NOT pronounce *THE NAME*

is out of a tender and awesome *reverence* for the holness of

G-d.

Thank you for asking.

Sincerely,CJ*mrs.rabbi*

ClearJewel/HealthyHebrew

HealthyHebrew@teachfitness.com

Actually it was "Gina i" who asked you the question about why you don't spell out the name of Jesus or of God. But thanks for addressing your answer me, anyway.

As I understand it, the Jews were really not right in not pronouncing God's name, because Jesus pronounced it and the whole name does occur in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as in some ancient copies of the Septuagint. God never asked anyone not to pronounce His name, but only to do it reverently and with respect. I do appreciate reverence for God's name, though, but the best way to show true reverence for God is, of course, by doing His will.

Do you believe the correct pronunciation of God's personal name is Yahweh? I would very interested in knowing what you understand His name to mean?

Shalom.

[Clio]

The "true Jesus" idea might be helpful to focus someone's mind on the distinction between who Jesus REALLY is and who some make Him out to be -- but that would only be useful to someone who had suffered serious spiritual abuse to where they need a device like that to help keep the mind on track. When I feel like the world, the flesh or the devil is trying to push a wrong idea of who Jesus is, a substitute Jesus, a not-real Jesus, and impress it forcefully upon my mind through coercion, cruelty, harshness, or some other evil device, I sometimes find it helpful to think in terms of "true Jesus". I don't see anything wrong with doing it BUT I don't see ANY reason to turn it into a dogmatic thing and insist everyone must do it or they aren't praying to the right Jesus, either. That would be silly. Jesus knows who is His and who is calling upon Him. As for demons or whatever it's not a question of whether they acknowledge the authority of the Name so much as whether they acknowledge the authority of the one using it. If Christlikeness is not present in heart and manifest character? You'll have your typical "seven sons of Sceva" routine for sure.

Just my tuppence.

Look Alive -

You have captured the essense of why I use True Jesus upon occasion when I don't give Him one of the other titles I much prefer.

One of my areas where I am called to minister is to those who have been spiritually abused to the point most here would call me a liar. One person who has been abused in this way has already been banned from here.

My favorite title for Him is My Beloved Bridegroom, although I am highly partial to Kinsman Redeemer as well.

The "false Jesus" that I shy away from is the construct of Him often presented by people who don't have a deep and intimate relationship with Him that transcends what one may learn by head-knowledge and dives right to the central kernal of heart-knowledge.

Some of those with whom I pray on a daily basis cannot pray unless they do so in True Jesus Name. This is because if they do not, the words of the Bible curl themselves into small serpents and flow off the page. They must literally pray almost every other breath at first, in order to be able to read the Book of Life we take so much for granted.

Part of what is done to them is sexually linked, with actors in costumes purporting to be Jesus committing every sort of sexual abomination with them. "True Jesus" helps them to set their mind on what they have learned of Jesus the Restorer, the Breaker of Chains, the Redeemer, Kinsman, Saviour.... and to believe that He is different from how they were conditioned to believe Him to be.

I spend so much time with these broken and wounded ones that my habit has been to call Him True Jesus when I choose to name Him rather than use one of His many titles.

It is very much *NOT* a dogmatic thing having nothing to do with what David Koot is suggesting and is instead something to help some terribly wounded and broken people.

My King! My Oath still stands in True Jesus Name! Till none are lost or captive!

[Aliensanctuary]

If we heard "Jesus" speak his true name, we are unlikely to be able to repeat it, probably because he speaks an alien language and may very well have a voice like a trumpet.

We do need to call him something, although it's unfortunate our English rendering is so far off the assumed "Yeh-ho-shuah" and the "Yay-sooce" versions in the Old and New Testaments. The name "Jesus" may very well be a distortion of "Yah-Zeus".

We probably don't have to worry about profaning his name, because we don't even know what it is. Maybe speaking his name had more power at one time than anything we have experienced today. If someone profanes his incorrect name, they would also profane his real name.

[gina i]

We live in fear of God, but not scared of Him, so we shouldn't feel that we should have to not spell out His name properly.

I respect your opinion/beliefs, but I do not agree with the fact you do not spell his name out.

[Lester]

Of course, I'm sure we realize that even saying "in Jesus Name" is not necessary. There is no prescribed words for our prayers. To pray "in Jesus name" is to pray according to His will and for His glory. I wonder how someone would come to the conclusion that we had to word our prayers according to the Devil's belief! I trust we aren't praying to him or for him!

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Gina,

I used to teach the Bible in prison for number years and I came across a believer who would not accept the name "Jesus"

He was very insistant that I use the name he used. He kept interupting everytime I'd go there and say the name, Jesus. Even while others were praying! One day an inmate said out loud, "I'm not getting much out of these studies" I knew what he meant so I talked to the guy but he kept it up. Finally they stopped coming except him and another guy who wasn't paying attention.

He still was doing it and I had another talk with him and thought finally he's going to stop. But no he kept it up. I had a choice: to go to the guards and get him out or just stop going. I chose the latter. I figured I'd rather do that than to get him in trouble.

The whole "True Jesus" concept is of human devising there's no where in the Bible that it even hints at changing the name of Jesus to "True Jesus." Once you do that you inadvertently build a wall of separation. Just like the OT Jews did. Only now it's, "I have the "True Jesus" and others don't"

Then it will go to some other name because of false "True Jesus." When you boil it down it's a human teaching not found in the Bible that is based in superstition. It's sensationalism for some. Some are looking for something new, something that awes them. They have to have one step up on others, they see themselves as special.

Honestly I know that because I used to be just like that. I have found that on earth, the only special one is JESUS, I am nothing.

I have already commented on this before but I wanted to add more.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

HI Lester,

Quote:

Of course, I'm sure we realize that even saying "in Jesus Name" is not necessary.

I don't agree entirely, here's why. We must pray in Spirit and in truth. Spirit meaning according to His will and glory or character and truth in the teachings. Praying in the name of Jesus is important. Mentioning the name of Jesus will cause demons to go away. But I agree that there's more to it than just saying the name like there was some superstitious mysterious power in just the name alone. I think of the seven sons of Sceva who used the name of Jesus whom Paul preached. It got them nowhere because they did not know the Lord.

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Here they used the name of Jesus and there was power that attended there command. I have seen it om TV where "healers" don't use the name of Jesus and I know where that's coming from. Also by saying "in the name of Jesus" it keeps us humble and keeps others from praising us.

Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; This is literal as I'm sure you know.

To say that "saying "in Jesus Name" is not necessary" is probably not the best way to say what you mean. Do you agree?

Norman

[Yong T Tay]

Quote Aliensanctuary:

"We do need to call him something, although it's unfortunate our English rendering is so far off the assumed "Yeh-ho-shuah" and the "Yay-sooce" versions in the Old and New Testaments. The name "Jesus" may very well be a distortion of "Yah-Zeus"."

That is very interesting, the Chinese call Jesus as "Yeh-Su".

Yongttay

[Lester]

Norman,

Don't get me wrong, I almost always say "in Jesus name." (except when I am praying with Muslim friends!) Both you and I just wanted to emphasize that it is not the words but the attitude/heart behind it that really is the point. Since the majority of my prayers (by far) are private and silent, I guess I don't see the Devil as an issue in how I pray. He can't hear me!