Illegals Kill 45,000 US citizens post 9-11

[Woody]

I just heard on the news today on FOX NEWs that Illegal immigrants have come to the US and killed 45,000 US "legal" citizens post 9-11.

I wish I had the source. Perhaps someone can give it.

I really have no idea of the realibility of this report. I am just passing it on. I hope someone else heard it and can provide more reliable information about the issue.

It came in response to President Bush's State of the Union speech.

I've been very concerned with the illegals for years before it became a big issue. It is the number one threat to the US I believe. I think our nation will collapse under the financial burden of providing all the illegals with social security, an education and health care.

What do you all say.??

[Bravus]

There's a word for this, but I can't use it here. It has to do with male cows...

[Woody]

Oh ... Do you get US national news in Australia?

[Bravus]

Nope, but it's an over the top claim on the face of it. Then I did some research and found that the figure comes from a Minutemen activist... so not exactly an unbiased source. The same article suggested that 12 homicides and 13 drunk driving deaths a day are attributed to illegal immigrants (I haven't checked these figures). That's a total of 9,000 deaths a year all right, but does not equate to 9,000 US citizen deaths necessarily... it's likely that a lot of those are 'within community'. And 9,000 deaths sounds like a lot - 3 September 11s or 3 times the US deaths in Iraq. But this is out of a group of people estimated at 30 million in the US. That's the entire population of Canada, or one and a half times the population of Australia. I suspect that murder and drink driving deaths for American citizens are about the same... if not greater than 4,500 or so per 30 million. So the claim has the effect of making illegals look like predators on Americans, when they are very obviously not. They're just people, and since Cain every group of people has contained killers.

[Woody]

I could be wrong about it saying US citizens. It may have said 45,000 people killed in the US by illegals.

Like I said ... I did not know if it was a realiable source. It may or may not be.

Bravus ... Thank you for your research. I wonder if the number included all the Mexicans that we find dead in containers or in the desert dead from trying to reach the US.??

[Bravus]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

America's murder rate as a whole is 0.043 per 1,000 people, or 43 per million. Multiply that by a population of 300 million and you get 12,900 murders per year. Multiply it by the 30 million of the illegal immigrant community, and you get 1,290 murders a year. So yep, there are more murders per capita in the illegal community. I was wrong on that point. I suspect if you checked the stats for (a) the southern states where most illegals live and ( American communities of the same socio-economic status, you'd find that the illegals are pretty much average.

Maybe I'll weaken my original comment a little... but it's still a sensationalist story, based on the word of someone with a very large axe to grind, that distorts reality to make a point.

[Woody]

Thank you for coming to the confession box. Now ... go and say 10 Hail Redwood's.

[Woody]

From personal observation ... I find that whenever there is a terrible drunk driving accident ... I usually find that it is an illegal immigrant. I don't mean to sound harsh. It is just an observation.

[Dr. Shane]

The majority of illegals come to the US in search of work to support their families back in their home country. The majority are harmless. However that is not to excuse their deed. By them breaking the law, they are making their making others from their country to wait even longer to come to the US legally. It is not ethical for them to come illegally and make their fellow countrymen who are doing things legally to wait even longer.

A minority of the illegals that come to the US bring disease (such as TB and hepititis) with them. Another minority of illegals that come to the US are criminals in their own country and come here to seek refuge. This criminals are not any worse than American-bred thugs. However if the border was under control, the same number of immirgrants would come into the US BUT it they would be processed and screened legally.

Drunk driving is a major problem in America and certainly illegals are as guilty as anyone else. However to blame them for the problem is SPIN that I cannot swallow.

[Amelia]

Quote:

male cows...

Bravus, that is an oxymoron. No such animal. And I think you mean Bull.

[Dr. Shane]

A male bovine (or bovinae) would be correct. Cows are female bovines and bulls are male bovines.

[Woody]

Back to topic .... This is not about bulls ... it is about something very serious ... the survival of our country.

It appears that having illegals is very expensive. There ARE increased deaths to our people through disease, accidents because of drinking. murders, drug abuse, increased crime, and the financial drain of sucking our money to educate and medicate them with health care, social security and Medicaid.

And just think of the millions of dollars we could save if we didn't have to have everything written in Spanish.

[Dr. Shane]

We need the workers. Americans are not having enough babies to supply the demand for workers. There are areas of the country where the crops actually rot in the fields because there are not enough workers to harvest them. Illegals come because we need them. If there wasn't work here, they wouldn't come.

So if and when the US is able to secure its borders and shores, it will need to allow more legal immirgrants into the country to fulfill the demand for workers. Of course, these legal workers can be screened for diseases and criminal background but I doubt that would impact the drunk driving rate among them.

The US has been deporting many, many immirgrants that break the law. There is a direct connection between the number of criminals being deported from the Los Angeles area to El Salvador and the increase in gang activity in El Salvador. So INS is doing something about it on thier end. What isn't being done is significant measures to secure the border and prevent these criminals from coming in the first place.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

There's a word for this, but I can't use it here. It has to do with male cows...

Back on the farm we called it cow patties.

[Woody]

Good Point Shane. If we actually made it illegal to hire illegals and have there be consequences to the employer ... then we would not have the jobs for the illegals.

Currently it is a "don't ask and don't tell" policy.

[Dr. Shane]

No, it isn't a "don't ask don't tell". Illegals buy fake social security numbers and IDs. Employers ask for ID and SSN and are given the fake documents. When INS comes in and descovers they are fake, they fine the employer. The Bush Administration has cut back a lot on prosecutions from the level Clinton was doing.

However if we stopped the flow of illegals, and didn't increase the number of legals that would mean more crops would rot in the field. Some claim that it would just result in farmers paying better wages and attracting American workers. However the farmers do not set the price for their produce. They are not going to pay the workers more to harvest a crop than they can sell it for. So that would mean the government would have to stop inported crops in order to artificially increase the value of domoestic crops so the farmers could afford to entice Americans to work in the fields. Not an easy solution nor one without international political consequences.

The best answer is to secure the border and start a guest worker program that allows more immirgrants to enter the country legally.

[Woody]

What I mean about don't ask don't tell ... is that the employer is not required to check with the government to see that the social security cards are real.

So ... the employers don't ask and therefore don't have to tell the government anything.

[Bravus]

I was being as polite as I could... I actually meant a particular product of male cows...

And anyway, if we can have female actors these days, but not actresses, it only seems fair...

[Bravus]

...and sorry Redwood, you'd still need stuff printed in Spanish with legal immigrants...

[GreatLakesGramma]

Bravus, they are trying to tell you that there is no such thing as a male cow. That's like saying male mare, male ewe, male hen, etc. Or to put it in human terms, calling YOU a male woman. A cow is an adult FEMALE. Period. Even the young females are not cows, they're heifers.

[Woody]

...and sorry Redwood, you'd still need stuff printed in Spanish with legal immigrants...

Bravus ... NOT under the Redwood plan. I would make a law that all immigrants would have to speak English.

[Bravus]

Gramma - thanks, but I totally get that. I pretty much grew up on a farm. I was playing with words... kinda (but not really) like Germaine Greer when she wrote the title of 'The Female Eunuch'.

[cricket]

Off topic, but so what:

It would be so nice if we all stopped to learn Spanish for a change. The language is so much more beautiful than the English language. It's a shame we don't incorporate more of it into our daily use.

[Woody]

Go to Mexico to enjoy the language. But don't wish it on us !!!

[Dr. Shane]

El problema es que Redwood es demasiado gringo. :sad Pero Dios lo ama a él todavía.

Pero los Estados Unidos es tan para todos y no solo una raza.