Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 Yes, Robert, I agree. However, one who has already crossed the line into violent crime has already demonstrated disrespect for the rights and well-being of others. This makes them a higher risk, statistically. It's a sad situation. I disagree. For example, let's take Satan. I think you would agree that he is the criminal of criminals, right? Who has He personally murdered? Answer: No one! "Many a man of cultured intellect and pleasant manners who would not stoop to what is commonly regarded as an immoral act, is but a polished instrument in the hands of Satan." [EGW] Quote
olger Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 "I disagree. For example, let's take Satan. I think you would agree that he is the criminal of criminals, right? Who has He personally murdered? Answer: No one!" huh ? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Beryl Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 [quote name='Robert I disagree. For example' date=' let's take Satan. I think you would agree that he is the criminal of criminals, right? Who has He personally murdered? Answer: No one! Wrong, Robert! He has murdered every individual on this earth who has died! He is the Master Criminal, and rejoices when he causes someone to commit a crime -- and couldn't care less what punishement they got, or how it affected them for the rest of their lives! Beryl Quote "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves." But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 Wrong, Robert! He has murdered every individual on this earth who has died! Quote
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 huh? Remember murder is not only a physical act in the eyes of God's law. If you hate someone in your heart (including your enemies), you are a murderer! Satan didn't murder Jesus, rather he worked through the local church of Christ's day to have them murder Him. Satan instigated it, but he didn't physically do it. Rob Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 10, 2007 Moderators Posted February 10, 2007 Originally Posted By: olger huh? Remember murder is not only a physical act in the eyes of God's law. If you hate someone in your heart (including your enemies), you are a murderer! Satan didn't murder Jesus, rather he worked through the local church of Christ's day to have them murder Him. Satan instigated it, but he didn't physically do it. Rob In the Judgment Satan will be held accountable for all the murders committed starting with Cain's murder of Abel. It was Lucifer who got people to sin against God, knowing that the result of that first sin would be the death of all humanity. Lucifer is the one who ultimately killed Jesus Christ. It proved to the whole onlooking universe that if he could, Lucifer would kill God the Father Himself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 10, 2007 Members Posted February 10, 2007 It proved to the whole onlooking universe that if he could, Lucifer would kill God the Father Himself. Why would Lucifer wish to kill God the Father? Lucifer knows that all life is sustained only by God. Lucifier wishes for power, but he also wishes for his life to be maintained. imho Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators John317 Posted February 10, 2007 Moderators Posted February 10, 2007 Originally Posted By: John317 It proved to the whole onlooking universe that if he could, Lucifer would kill God the Father Himself. Why would Lucifer wish to kill God the Father? Lucifer knows that all life is sustained only by God. Lucifier wishes for power, but he also wishes for his life to be maintained. imho What you say about all life having its ground and source in God is absolutely true, of course, but what all this shows is that sin is not based on reason. It is irrational. God has said, "All those who hate me love death," yet so many people go on hating God. It's irrational for Lucifer to think that he could defeat God, yet that is exactly what he hopes to accomplish. It seems any thinking, intelligent being would have to conclude that it is hopeless to try and defeat God, but Lucifer has convinced himself and evidently 1/3 of the angels that he has a chance to prove God wrong and win the allegience of humankind. Prophecy shows that Satan will lead almost the entire world to worship him and will come very close to wiping out all opposition. It's helpful to remember that if God the Father came to this earth in the form of a man, He would have done nothing different than Christ Himself did. And Satan's reaction, that of opposition and hatred, would have been the same. What it shows is that Satan hates everything the Father represents, because everything Jesus did and said was ultimately from the Father. Christ was only revealing and explaining the Father. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 Lucifer is the one who ultimately killed Jesus Christ. Oh, the old devil made me do it routine? I don't think so.... Let's see whom Paul blamed when he sinned: Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Paul goes on to say, "22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man [the mind/heart], 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members." The love of self [i.e., "the law of sin"], not Satan, causes you to sin. If Satan dropped dead today you would still sin. He, Satan, is the great instigator. Yes, he will place temptations before you (as he did Christ), but he is not the reason you sin. You sin because iniquity is in you. Robert Quote
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 Satan's reaction, that of opposition and hatred, would have been the same. What it shows is that Satan hates everything the Father represents, because everything Jesus did and said was ultimately from the Father. Christ was only revealing and explaining the Father. Satan hated Christ in his heart, but he never touched Christ. He worked through the Jews and Romans and turned them against Christ. But it was mankind that murdered the Son of God. Of course Satan hates God for "God is agape". That means that God is selfless. He lives for others and not Himself. Lucifer invented a U-turn agape. Instead of flowing outward to others, it took a U-turn and came back to self. Hence self-love. This is where the Hebrew word iniquity is derived. It simply means a bent towards self. Robert Quote
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 John 8:44 “You [context: i.e., you Jews] are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. Please note Satan was a murder from the beginning. Yet we know that in heaven he did not murder Christ. The sin here is speaking of a cherished desire - Satan hated Christ in his heart. Clearly the Jews wanted to murder Christ and they did. Satan merely was the catalyst for feeding the flesh, but he personally didn't nail Jesus to that tree. Does that make Satan guiltless? No. That's my whole point. Just because someone doesn't murder outwardly make him or her a good person. Just because you don't have a sexual offender in your neighborhood doesn't make you safe. We judge by the outward conduct, but God judges the heart. That's why we are so easily deceived. Quote
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