The Use of Racial Slurs in CA

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Forgiveness does far more for the forgiver than it does for the forgiven. It is an intentional change of heart, a change of attitude toward the offender. When this dawned on me I began to look at God's forgiveness of me in a whole new light. The opposite of forgiveness is revenge, justified revenge.

Thank you, Tom! So many Christians want a God to wreak vengence. He forgives us before we ask.

Quote:

Toughening up is not the answer. Being impervious to pain is not forgiveness. It takes a sensitive person to forgive.

Good reply, Tom. During a grief seminar, our group learned that one needs to not resist grief, but to lean into it and experience it. Otherwise it may still be there 20 years later, waiting to be dealt with. The same goes for insults, etc. The hurt can last if pushed aside and covered with a tough layer of indifference.

~d.allan

[Gail]

And while the one person is harbouring the hurt, the party responsible for doing the injury has long since forgotten it

This morning I was thinking about our Lord and the insults that were thrown at Him. There was no attempt for discussion, understanding or apology. How did He deal with that? When they tortured Him, He asked his Father to forgive them. Where does the will and the strength for that come from?

[Gail]

I thought to myself while reading this thread (and others like it in the past) that the point of these discussions is not really what is being talked about.

It is more about how well we get along with our family, because how folks here deal with life on the board, they deal with life on the outside.

[David Koot]

To better days ahead in the CA family.

REDWOOD

The CA family has been doing well lately, to my observation. This particular episode seems to be your personal stuff. For whatever reason you took offense at something which wasn't intended as offensive, and then escalated the whole thing and, in fact, seem to have blamed someone else for what is really your personal issue. And you seem to have personalized the whole thing. This would be more appropriate for PM's. This kind of thing can take away from pleasant interaction on a forum. I hope we don't see a lot of this kind of thing happen in the future. I also suggest that if you have personal issues, with Shane or me or whomever, then deal with them via PM rather than on a public forum. And, intending this in a kindly way, I encourage you to get a grip.

Dave

[Woody]

Even though no one suggested to me to solve this through PMs ... I did initiate private messages with Shane that were not productive.I also consulted with Stan. This was made public from the beginning and I asked the CA family for help for which I appreciated a number of those of you who did help. I appreciated all your opinions offered.

We are a family and each of us need support and help from time to time.

Thank you to each of you who helped and to the others please accept my apologizes if you did not enjoy reading about all this.

[Dr. Shane]

My take has been this: we have a color charachter much like the late Mrs. Gray. This color charachter states that the only racism in America is Affirmative Action. Thus we are led to believe that blacks and hispanics that claim racism are only pretending to be offended at what really isn't racism at all. The next act in the drama is for this charachter to become offended and thus mock the minorities. After all, if gringo isn't offensive than the N word blacks complain about isn't either. And of course hispanics shouldn't complain about being called spics or wet-backs. If we are to believe this charachter, the only real victems of racism in America are white.

I don't buy it. It might make for an active thread but I wouldn't advise anyone to take it any more serious than the story about Mr. Gray eating bacon on his Egg McMuffin.

[Woody]

I am sorry to hear that Shane has this opinion of me.

I do not believe in any way ... any of the things he has accused me of believing. And I have stated this publicly.

I only wish that he had asked me directly if this was what I believed. Then I could have eased his mind.

Perhaps he misunderstood some of my statements and this is why he has held such anger at me.

If you have any further questions that I could clarify for you Shane ... please ask.

[Woody]

I was hoping that this might end. I sense that some do not want it continue. So ... Shane if you have specific questions of me that you feel would be better fit for private messages ... I would be happy to do that also.

I don't want to offend anyone here by continuing to talk about this subject if it is wrong.

I'll let you make the call. But I am willing to talk to you in whatever manner or forum you feel is appropriate.

[Parade Orange]

I hope this can be resolved Redwood and Shane.

Meanwhile this thread has risen from the ashes like a Phonequ uhhh.. Phynix... wait.

Finux!

drats!

I have been asking Heavenly father for a book to read.

I live in a small town where there is no library and we get,once a week, a library mobile for an hour.

they have good books and whatnot .

I ordered Jane Fonda auto biography 2 months ago(what a kwinky dinky),

I kept it 2 months not reading it-just looking at that flawless chik's pictures.

and reading about her conversion to Christianity(hopefully to JESUS).

As big as movie and movie star junkie that I am I didnt care to spend that much time oooing and ahhhing about hollywood and the stuff!

i digress

I want to order a FORGIVENESSS book that was mentioned!

thanku Tom!!!

Tom U have a small group that reads and examines and challenges and support and trusts at the foot of the cross together?

I hope u know How lucky and blessed u are!

my church is nothing like that and its a small group

[Tom Wetmore]

...He forgives us before we ask...

Yes, the attitude of Christ (forgiving those who tortured him despite their ignorance, etc.) is one of preemptive forgiveness. He planned forgiveness before there was anything to forgive. His forgiveness didn't wait for repentence. Forgiveness reached out a healing hand even when it was not requested. Gail is right, this sort of forgiveness is humanly incomprehensible. But yet he invites us to forgive even as we are forgiven.

Quote:

...During a grief seminar, our group learned that one needs to not resist grief, but to lean into it and experience it. Otherwise it may still be there 20 years later, waiting to be dealt with. The same goes for insults, etc. The hurt can last if pushed aside and covered with a tough layer of indifference.

Precisely! Just as the first step in grieving is experiencing (I like the visual of leaning into it...) the depth of the pain and hurt, the first step in the process of forgiveness is to truthfully acknowledge the hurt. And sometimes this may take some time of leaning into it to appreciate that harm was done. What's to forgive if there is no hurt?

Tom

[Kountzer]

I was just listening to the Kind of Blue Miles Davis Cd. Mahn, homes was blowing some serious trumpet on that project, and so were John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderly. Good CD.

DB

[David Koot]

Permit me to clarify just a bit. The fragile rubric of civilized intercourse in a discussion forum can so easily be ripped apart. I have seen it happen. Nightmare scenarios can indeed occur. Worse than you might imagine. It is important to keep to the issues, to not involve personalities, and to carefully preserve those boundaries. Doing so can go a long way to maintaining a safe environment for pleasant exchange and discussion.

Regards, Dave

[lazarus]

Redwood:

Let me share with you my 13 (personal) Habits of Highly Effective Posting. I've have never shared them with anyone before. I hope you find them useful.

1. Never DEMAND an apology. (unless there's money involved, like millions of dollars)

2. Consider what you may have done to contribute to the situation.

3. Ask yourself whether it was possible that you have misjudged the other persons intentions.

4. Realise its a fact of life that people will offend you sooner or later.

5. Its OK to be wrong sometimes.

6. You reap what you sow.

7. Somebody got seriously hurt/died a few minutes ago somewhere in the world.

8. WWSP, What would Stan post.

9. WWJP, What would jesus post. (OK, OK, Jesus should have come first)

10. If you don't have a coherent argument at least try to be funny.

11. If you can't be funny then at least have a coherent argument.

12. Don't ask your wife about it.

13. Shane and Lazarus are actually the same person!!!!

[cricket]

Quote:

13. Shane and Lazarus are actually the same person!!!!

Lazarus, these are good things to remember. Thank you for posting them.

[Taylor]

I want to say something. In retrospect I think I have repeated my point too much on this topic. I was genuinly surprised that anyone would think this was a racial slur and I was hoping that by explaining that in various situations I have lived in, it didn't have that meaning, that it would help ease the pain.

However, I think I probably exacerbated the situation and perhaps made Redwood feel as if I was discounting his feelings by my repetition.

Redwood, I want to formally appologize to you for any pain my posts brought to you. I truely meant no harm to you in any way. However, I am fully aware that I can hurt someone without meaning to. I also realize that whether I understand things the same as someone else or not is rather inmaterial. What does matter, and matters greatly, is that the other person is hurting. So if I have added to your pain, I am truely sorry. I genuinly love people of all races. I truely don't get how anyone can be prejudiced against any race. People are people and have incredible value! You have incredible value Redwood, and I never want you to feel any less valued by me ever. Again, I am sorry.

[Woody]

Taylor ... Thank you very much for your apology. It means a lot that you were willing to do it. But, I don't feel it is warrented.

I have appreciated all your responses. It has contributed to the conversation. I take no offense at your observations.

I think that what was discovered was that many people find the word used to be offensive and many do not find it offensive.

Yes ... I would have thought that Shane would have been sorry that I found it offensive. But, he was not and continued to put me down for feeling the way I did.

But, to me that is all past. I have come to the realization that I can't expect him to respond in the same way as I would respond. I no longer expect anything from him. I only wish him the best.

But thank you for your sensitivity. Even though I don't feel it was needed ... it was appreciated.

[Woody]

Laz ... even though I disagree with much of what you have said in the context of this discussion ... I will restrict my response to one thing you said :

Quote:

Don't ask your wife about it.

I am sorry to see you say this.It must mean that either you are not married or you do not have a close relationship with this person.

Let me tell you about my relationship with my wife.

My wife and I are best friends. We share everything. We are totally open with each other. I find that with my narrow view of things that I need her opinion to moderate my views and reactions to things. We make a good partnership. She helps mold my views. I help expand her views and reactions.

We enjoy helping and sharing with each other.

I recognize that I have faulty perceptions at times. She helps keep me in check. If you don't have this you are missing out. But, I would not criticize someone who does use this type of interaction by suggestion that "I don't ask my wife."

I guess I would like to ask you what part of asking my wife are you opposed to? Is it the fact that she is a women? Is it that you feel I should "stand alone"? Be a Man? What exactly is your opposition to my asking my wife about the situation with Shane?

[Stan]

Redwood:

Let me share with you my 13 (personal) Habits of Highly Effective Posting. I've have never shared them with anyone before. I hope you find them useful.

1. Never DEMAND an apology. (unless there's money involved, like millions of dollars)

2. Consider what you may have done to contribute to the situation.

3. Ask yourself whether it was possible that you have misjudged the other persons intentions.

4. Realise its a fact of life that people will offend you sooner or later.

5. Its OK to be wrong sometimes.

6. You reap what you sow.

7. Somebody got seriously hurt/died a few minutes ago somewhere in the world.

8. WWSP, What would Stan post.

9. WWJP, What would jesus post. (OK, OK, Jesus should have come first)

10. If you don't have a coherent argument at least try to be funny.

11. If you can't be funny then at least have a coherent argument.

12. Don't ask your wife about it.

13. Shane and Lazarus are actually the same person!!!!

Pastor...

Except for one of those, , this is right on!!!

[Woody]

Stan ... I have to disagree with what was said because of what was put ahead of the list ...

He put the name "Redwood". If he had addressed it to Redwood and Shane then I would have accepted it. But in the context of the discussion I think that it shows a bias to direct it only to me. I think that both Shane and I could benefit from what Laz said. So like I said ... "in the context" of the discussion ... I would disagree with what he said because it applies to both Shane and I equally not just me as directed.

I also have to disagree with the characterization of what I did by the listing of some of his "solutions". Like I say ... Laz has made this personal by directing it just to me when I feel that many on the list would have been very helpful for both Shane and I to follow.

[cricket]

[lazarus]

Laz ... even though I disagree with much of what you have said in the context of this discussion ... I will restrict my response to one thing you said :

Quote:

Don't ask your wife about it.

I am sorry to see you say this.It must mean that either you are not married or you do not have a close relationship with this person.

see number 10.

[Stan]

The readwood part could have been left out, I was looking at the 13 statements (except for 1 ) and thought it was great..

[lazarus]

Shane & Redwood:

Let me share with you my 13 (personal) Habits of Highly Effective Posting. I've have never shared them with anyone before. I hope you find them useful.

1. Never DEMAND an apology. (unless there's money involved, like millions of dollars)

2. Consider what you may have done to contribute to the situation.

3. Ask yourself whether it was possible that you have misjudged the other persons intentions.

4. Realise its a fact of life that people will offend you sooner or later.

5. Its OK to be wrong sometimes.

6. You reap what you sow.

7. Somebody got seriously hurt/died a few minutes ago somewhere in the world.

8. WWSP, What would Stan post.

9. WWJP, What would jesus post. (OK, OK, Jesus should have come first)

10. If you don't have a coherent argument at least try to be funny.

11. If you can't be funny then at least have a coherent argument.

12. Don't ask your wife about it.

13. Shane and Redwood are actually the same person!!!!

[Woody]

Stan ... let me explain about the one big one that I have an issue with on the list.

In my mind I have never "demanded" an apology. So having this on the list for Redwood has been an irritant to me.

My issue has been that Shane from the very beginning and until this day ... has put me down for being offended. I tried to show him how others and even the dictionary considers it to be a hostile word. None of that matters to him. I tried to point out all along that it really didn't matter what his intentions were. I was not saying he was a racist. I was not saying he necessarily was trying to hurt my feelings. I was hurt by the use of the name period.

So ... can you see that his intentions were not the issue. In order for him to understand this I tried to point out that if someone used the N word it would not matter what good intentions there were for using that term. The damage is the use of the term. Even though the dictionary classifies the two terms in the same manner. I am not saying they are equal. I will let others decide that. What I am saying is that the use of the name he called me ... DOES cause pain for some. And it did cause pain for me.

He has chosen to not care that he caused me pain. And I am now realizing that I can move on and accept that he is simply not the kind of person that finds apologizes easy. I will not hold him faulty in my mind because of that. I think that to some degree that I might have initially. I am not sure. But I am sure that I no longer feel ill toward him. I have explained my thinking on this previously. IF Shane needs forgiving in my mind ... I have done so.

I am now concerned that he has admitted that he holds anger towards me for some misunderstandings of my beliefs on the issue of Affirmative Action. I wish he had clarified with me what my beliefs are before resorting to calling me names.

Because the understanding that he recently expressed are not reflective of my beliefs and I would gladly renounce what he thinks I believe. Because I hate to see people hold anger towards me ... I wish there was something I could say that would help ease his anger. Perhaps I will just have to give up on that idea also.

[Woody]

The actual quote was :

Quote:

Shane and Lazarus are actually the same person!!!!

It is much better the way it has been ammended to which is :

"Shane and Redwood are actually the same person!!!! "

So , I thank Laz for the correction. That does help.