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Claims of ‘rediscovered’ Michelangelos unsettle Renaissance experts
phkrause and one other reacted to Hanseng for a topic
I used to work (at a low end salary) for a high-end art and antiques gallery in Los Angeles. Pieces I worked on were displayed in museums and attracted international attention in the art world. The gallery owner had been collecting art for decades, having been introduced to the art world as a child by his grandmother. Among his holdings was a painting of Philip baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch. He believed it to be an original Rembrandt. In order to validate his belief, he took it to Europe for certification by Rembrandt authorities there. They denied that it was an original Rembrandt, instead consigning it to one of his students or other painter. Disappointed, he returned home to America. Sometime after he returned, he received a letter from the chairman of the art history department of a major university, offering to help him certify the painting for a 10% slice of the sale price. which would have put hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket. On another occasion, I bought an inexpensive picture which is still displayed in our home. Several years after the purchase, I saw an identical painting written up in an online news source. The painting was being touted as an original antique painting, a great discovery in the art world. Knowing something about the fakery that goes on, I contacted the gallery advertising it. I never heard back. I did see, however, an article retracting previous claims made regarding the picture. I don't believe my note had anything to do with the retraction. Simply a matter of a "scholar" doing a little homework. Fraud is ubiquitous in the art world, whether it be "antique" furniture, paintings, or whatever. Estate sales are another venue for being duped. Gallery owners routinely "plant" pieces they own to ad some cachet to a piece they haven't been able to sell out of their shop. I once told a client that the piece he was buying was a recent copy rather than an antique. He immediately went to the owner (not the same one that had the non-Rembrandt). He returned and we finished putting the item in his car. The shop owner then reviled me for telling the customer the truth. People want to believe what they want to believe. The religious world is similar, in some respects. I know nothing of the sculpture to which the article refers; however, let the buyer beware2 points -
Jesse Jackson
Kevin H and one other reacted to Rahab for a topic
It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.2 points -
Gustave, yes, there once was an SDA Church in San Francisco that was more liberal than the typical SDA church. I do not know that it ever allowed such marriages. In any case, that experiment ended some years ago. I once was a member of a large SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who attended. But, they were not members. I am aware of another SDA congregation that accepted a homosexual couple into membership. The pastor was expelled from ministry. Other action resulted related to another clergy person. But, the couple remained members.2 points
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God has a church
phkrause and one other reacted to Stan for a topic
God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.2 points -
God has a church
Kevin H and one other reacted to phkrause for a topic
Revelation 14:12 tells us: "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."2 points -
False doctrines in Adventism
Kevin H and one other reacted to Gustave for a topic
Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!2 points -
False doctrines in Adventism
phkrause and one other reacted to Kevin H for a topic
When Jesus healed the man/2men, when the pigs ran into the sea; they were pagans. They lived in a city where they were to show others how wonderful Greek life is. This was one of 10 Greek cities on the east side of the sea of Galilee and Jordan river, and the entire area was pagan. This was the "far country" that the prodigal son went to. These men would have been pagan. They would have known little to nothing of the people with a strange religion down south in Judah and pockets here and there in the north, but all across the lake. They knew very little. They would not have known the Bible. Yet, Jesus sent them to be his first missionaries to the gentiles. I wonder how comfortable we would feel if we could go back in time and attend their meetings?2 points -
False doctrines in Adventism
Kevin H and one other reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
God intends for His church to be comprised of people growing in faith and understanding. From this perspective you can expect to have people who are members who believe to some extent false doctrine.2 points -
Interpreting Ellen White’s Writings
phkrause and one other reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
Reading Ellen white: How to understand and apply her writings, written by George Knight, is probably the best book that has been published on this subject. It can be purchased form Amazon.2 points -
lost friends??
Kevin H and one other reacted to Stan for a topic
I made a post on a social media, which was my opinion, that Israel and friends need to liberate Gazians from Hamas just as the Allies and Russia liberated Germans from Nazis. I still believe that. I do not expect everyone else to. If you befriend a Gasian so they will trust you, most would say the same thing. They are aware that Hamas has paid informants who try to abstract that from Gazians and then remove their remaining family from being alive. They may never trust you enough; they all have heard stories, fictional or not, of such. Back to the topic, many long-term friends blocked me over that. I suspect most of them were left-leaning, but I could be wrong. Has anyone else had that kind of experience? Stan2 points -
lost friends??
Kevin H and one other reacted to Stan for a topic
Very well written, thank you. Israel, as a nation, has some of the best laws for the protection of religious liberty. That is seldom talked about. In the Israeli military, there are Muslims fighting against Hamas to protect their country. That is seldom talked about. We have all benefited from the inventions and innovations of the Children of Israel. That is seldom talked about.2 points -
Ted Wilson: Kohler
phkrause and one other reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
But two years later, on July 4, at the 2025 GC Session in St. Louis, Missouri, out of the almost 2,000 session delegates who had just heard Wilson’s official “President’s Report”—a telling of everything the church accomplished under his 15-year-long leadership—only 188 of the floor delegates voted for him. The vast majority clearly decided that the church can, in fact, survive without him. Wilson was not reelected president, and Erton Köhler succeeded him with over 90 percent approval. In the first 6 months, it appears he is doing what he said he would. More focus on humanitarian efforts and programs. He appears to be reduced intensity. So far he is doing a great job.2 points -
Season Five Episode Two - Cleansing The Temple
phkrause and one other reacted to Dr. Shane for a topic
The celebration of the Passover is explained by various conversations by the characters in this episode. It informs viewers that do not have a Christian background what was happening during this feast. In one scene the high priest is dining with King Herod. They are discussing Jesus and it is presented in such a way that the high priest is clearly threatened by Jesus while King Herod sees Jesus as harmless. We know that Jesus was not a threat to the civil government of Rome. He was a threat to the Jewish religious leadership. After the resurrection and ascension, the new Christian sect was such a threat to Jewish leadership that they became persecuted. We see in this story the "church" and the "state". Jesus was not a threat to the state but was a threat to the church. The state is all about power and treasure in this world. The church is about power and treasure in the world to come. The episode comes to a climax with the cleansing of the temple. Jesus overturns the tables and runs the livestock and vendors out. It is very forceful. It is noteworthy that the Jewish people were expecting the Messiah to come and free them from Rome. They expected the Messiah to attack Rome. However, the Messiah did not attack Rome. He attacked the erroring Jewish establishment. During the first season, Jesus met with Nicodemus. The light came on for Nicodemus when he realized the Messiah didn't come to free them from Rome but rather to free them from sin. Cleansing the temple is an active illustration of Jesus freeing us from sin. The Jewish religion had become rigid legalism. Rigid legalism traps us in sin. If Jesus was here today, would He be trying to reform civil government or would He be focusing on the church? The reality is that Jesus is here today as He lives in those that believe in Him. Should our focus be on the civil government or on the church? How can we be free from legalism and fulfill the purpose God has for us at this time?2 points -
Why So Many Christians Reject Sabbath
phkrause and one other reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
A fundamental error that many Christians engage in, including SDAs, is to consider the main focus of the Sabbath to be that of worship. The purpose of the Sabbath, as it began in Eden, was to spend a day with God and to grow spiritually. It was a day separate from the routine duties that Adam and Eve had in Eden. Rather the focus was on God and getting to know God better in a close association with God. Worship is a small part of that, even if important. Worship can be on multiple days of the week. I have probably conducted more worship services on Sundays, than I have on Saturdays. Adventists often have worship services in a series of meetings that are held on multiple days of the week. There is nothing wrong with either my holding worship services on Sunday mornings, or with SDA clergy holding revival meetings on days other than the Sabbath. The spiritual error occurs with Christians, whether Adventist or otherwise, fail to understand the spiritual blessing that we experience in spending the day with God, on the Sabbath that God has established as a special day to commune with us.2 points -
The Apocrypha
Stan reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
The Apocrypha is little known among SDA members. I am working on an in-depth article in which I will introduce us to the individual writings. I have decided to post my article in parts, as I finish it. I will open this thread for comment when I have finished. The Apocrypha The Bible that Christians use today consists of a selection of writings that were commonly used in the congregations as Christianity spread in the years after the accession of Christ back to heaven. The Old Testament consists Jewish writings thought to be necessary for the Christian faith. The New Testament consists of Christian writings that were produced as Christianity developed in the early years. The Apocrypha is is a group of writings that were produced during the Intertestamental period between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Those writings have been accepted as having value by some Christian groups and therefore included in the Bibles that they use. Some of these are additions to standard Old Testament books. Other parts are complete books that are added to the Old Testament. Many Protestants, to include Seventh-day Adventists do not include them in their Bibles. In this document I will inform you as to the various material included in the Apocrypha. NOTE, Current SDA scholars are giving study to the comments that Ellen White make that are related to this issue. She was favorable. The Pseudepigrapha consists of similar writings that developed in the early years of Christianity. This is a very large collection of material, I will not further comment on those writings. How ever, it is interesting to note that the New Testament book of Jude, in the 14tn verse clearly quotes from the Pseudepigraphal book of Enoch.1 point -
The Apocrypha
Stan reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
The following is a lilting of the materials that are commonly included in the Apocrypha. In some cases, I may have shortened the title from what is the title as included in Bibles. Also, I do not list in the order in which they are included in the Bibles. If you wish to read the following, they are probably all available on the Internet. 1st Maccabees: This book is considered to be the best history that we have of the specific period of time that it describes. 2nd Maccabees: This book is thought to have some historical value for the covered period of time, but not as much as the one directly above. NOTE: Two other similar (3rd & 4th) versions did not make it into the cannon of any present Christian group. The Three Holy Children: This section tells the story of the three who were thrown into the furnace of fire, their conversations while they were in the furnace, and their deliverance. Susanna: This is the story of a woman falsely accused of immoral conduct. Daniel steps in to defend her and proves her innocent. It is an addition to the book of Daniel. Bel and the Dragon: This is a fanciful story of Daniel who destroyed the Babylonian god Bel, and also a dragon god, who was then thrown into the den of lions for 6-days during which God fed Daniel., 1st Esdras: This is a long story of how Cyrus allowed the Jews to return from their captivity in Babylon to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. 2nd Esdras: This book begins with the story of God delivering the Jews from Egypt. It has a focus on End Time Events that differs from the other book. Prayer of Manasses: He is a captive in Babylon. This is his prayer asking for forgiveness. Tobit: This is the story of a righteous man on a journey, accompanied by an angel of God who encounters an evil spirit. He heals people with gall. One person dies at 185 years of age. Tobit dies at 127 years of age. Judith: In this story, God uses the woman, Judith to deliver Israel from the enemy. It differs some, but, is similar to the story of Jael killing Sisera in Judges 4:17-22. Additions to Esther: These additions to the book of Esther expand upon the story of the attempt to kill the Jews and how Esther approached the King to request that they be saved. Wisdom of Solomon: This is simply alleged to be the teachings of King Solomon. Christians would likely agree with much. Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus: This is a collection of the teachings of a man named Jesus who lived many years prior to Jesus the Christ. Baruch: this book was written to Jews in captivity in Babylon. It states that such happened due to their sins and assures them that if they repent, God will deliver them and return them to their previous land.1 point -
Jesse Jackson
Rahab reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: During the funeral for civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, Isiah Thomas caused a stir when he called both Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton ‘presidents.’ Thomas, a former star for the Detroit Pistons, spoke at a public service in Chicago on Friday to honor Jackson's life and legacy. He talked about important leaders who were there during the speech and called Harris and Clinton presidents, which got a lot of attention from people who watched and talked about the event. Jackson’s casket arrived for the Public Homegoing Service at the House of Hope in Chicago on March 6, 2026 (AP Photo/Nam Y Huh) Thomas mentioned the ‘five’ former presidents As one of several high-profile speakers at the funeral for Rev Jesse Jackson in Chicago on Friday, Thomas mentioned the ‘five’ former presidents in attendance. It wasn't a slip of Thomas' tongue. Thomas went on to call them "President Harris" and President Clinton," drawing a standing ovation from the crowd, as well as smiles and laughter from former vice president Kamala Harris and former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, seated next to one other in the front pew.1 point -
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Science/The bible
phkrause reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
The above article has been removed from the Internet. However, it has also been posted on the following website; https://www.educatetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/0226Recorder.pdf1 point -
Challenge from Dr James Dobson.
phkrause reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
Lead by example. We are to be the leaders of the house. To do that we need to be deeply involved in weekly bible study. I believe we need to do daily bible study.1 point -
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Great Photo Shots!
Stan reacted to phkrause for a topic
❄️ Winter gold Photo: John Ashley Cadwell Even in the deep freeze, Finish Line reader John Ashley Cadwell makes sure nobody goes hungry. "Loving all the snow here in Vermont," Cadwell writes us. 🐦 "Note the bird feeder in the foreground. We keep our winged friends fed and happy." 🌱 Send us photos of spring awakening in your hometowns to finishline@axios.com.1 point -
Great Photo Shots!
Rahab reacted to phkrause for a topic
🌅 Lake Superior at sunset Photo: Nick Place Finish Line reader Nick Place sent us this dazzling shot, taken off the north shore of America's greatest lake, near Schroeder, Minn.1 point -
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CA Politics
phkrause reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
* The California Democratic Party has failed to narrow the potential Primary Candidates for California Governor. The result is that nine (9) people will be Democratic candidates of Governor in the June Primary. * It is expected that when the Republicans meet they will select from two to five Republican candidates for l\California Governor. * This is expected result in the people voting on a slate of nine to eleven candidates in the Primary election. * Under a system that is unique to California, the two highest candidates will run for the election in the following General Election. IOW, if the two highest candidates are both Republicans, a Republican will be assured of becoming the next Governor. Some think this is quite likely to happen.1 point -
What should we preach in these last days?
Kevin H reacted to hobie for a topic
My father was a Adventist minister, so I grew up listening to innumerable sermons and Daniel and Revelation prophecy series, and my mother did the various church and health messages, think '5 day plan to stop smoking', and I knew what was coming for each night. But, come to the present as we are getting to the final days, and I sometimes seem to struggle in what sermon to bring before the brethren, as I volunteer for the sermon as a elder. I thought I was the only one, that some weeks I had no idea what sermon for this time to preach about, till almost the day of the sermon. But I have become aware that others also struggle to find what they should preach especially after hitting all the major points and beliefs, especially for the last days and prophecy. It might be that some are between ideas for what the brethren need or just struggling for ideas. If we who preach as lay preachers were all honest, we’ve come across this, or come to the point of asking, ”What do the people need?” So how do you find a message, especially for these last days, from God’s Word that your church needs and you are excited about?1 point -
Why So Many Christians Reject Sabbath
phkrause reacted to Kevin H for a topic
Tradition, any tradition, once something becomes a tradition, it is hard to give up. We are no different, for example: There is a fair amount of evidence that Mrs. White ended up disagreeing with Uriah Smith about the 7 trumpets and that she saw them as corresponding to the plagues and that both the trumpets and plagues are future. I was taught this in college with the evidence presented. In Seminary, they taught the tradition, but most were open to the possibility that the tradition might be wrong and that we may have to place it in the future. Today, you constantly hear Smith's view presented and defended. At the seminary, in my Daniel class the image of Daniel 2 was presented as 7 parts. I noticed that Stephen Haskell's book on Daniel presented it as basically the same 7 parts. It is interesting that these 7 parts happened to correspond to what I was taught as the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation 13 (which is also taught in George McCready Price "the Time of the End.") These 7 parts are: Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece Rome, the feet of iron and clay (God molds the clay, but here it is being molded by the iron instead of God, a description of a church-state, and the empire we see was in the far east Islam, then Eastern orthodox, Roman Catholic, then within Roman Catholic was the Reformed Roman Catholics i.e. Protestants) then the toes of iron and clay = the deadly wound, no great world empire but independent nations, some more lamblike and more freedom, others more beastlike and controlling, then the toes to join together, the deadly wound is healed. But attend an evangelistic meeting and you hear Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome and the Pope. Haskell's book was first published in 1901, George McCready Price in 1967, and in class in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Tradition is always hard to change.1 point -
Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA
Joe Knapp reacted to phkrause for a topic
DNA Construction Site A newly fertilized egg builds a 3D scaffold of DNA long before the genome turns on, research on fruit flies revealed yesterday. A companion study on human cells suggests failure of that structure can lead to diseases, including cancer. Researchers studied a fruit fly (drosophila) in the hours after fertilization using a new, highly detailed 3D imaging technology. The goal was to discover what happens before zygotic genome activation, when a genome awakens and the embryo reads its genetic instructions. Until now, the prevailing view has been that the embryo holds a disorderly tangle of DNA. Instead, researchers have learned that the scaffold for DNA—including the assembly of what’s known as chromatin loops—is already happening. Read the full study here. The study was released alongside companion research studying what happens when that scaffolding collapses in humans. Using that same approach, researchers found human cells perceive scaffolding failure as a viral infection, which can trigger changes in gene expression and lead to inflammation, developmental disorders, and cancer. Explore our favorite resources on DNA here.1 point -
Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA
phkrause reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
The more we learn about DNA, the more absurd is the theory of evolution, which was claimed that a cell came from a lightning bolt.1 point -
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Reclaiming the Prophet
phkrause reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
Reclaiming the Prophet: An Honest Defense of Ellen White's Gift is one of the more important books related to Ellen White. The following link will allow you to read that book on-line. In addition, it will allow you t download a digital Copy of the book. https://spectrummagazine.org/reclaiming-the-prophet/1 point -
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Federal Court Blocks DHS Policy Permitting Immigration Raids at Churches
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
A Massachusetts judge issued a preliminary injunction against a 2025 federal policy that allowed immigration agents to conduct warrantless arrests and searches inside houses of worship. TLDR A federal judge […] The post Federal Court Blocks DHS Policy Permitting Immigration Raids at Churches appeared first on ReligiousLiberty.TV. View the full article1 point -
lost friends??
phkrause reacted to Kevin H for a topic
Stan, I'm left-leaning, but fully agree with you. There are wonderful people living in the land. For centuries they lived together until Western nations started to interfere, and now you have extremists on both sides that hold everyone else hostage. A child of a Palestinian friend of mine made a comment about how the press very much distorts the just concerns that the Palestinians have but make it more extreme than what is being said and twisted to make it anti-Israel. The father, despite being in agreement, had to denounce the child because of death threats. Palestinian Christians worry for their lives, there are different religions among the Arabs who each believe that their version of the faith is the correct version and needs to be imposed on everyone else. Some in all the faiths respect the history of the land of the Bible which helps us to understand the Bible even better, but others want to destroy and forget the history. The original role of Israel was to first, make the most important intersection for trade routes safe from the dangers that the Canaanite superstitions had caused. Then if faithful God would have blessed them and the trade caravans would bring stories about these people to the farthest reaches of the world. If not faithful, they would get curses to encourage them to change, and if nothing else worked, they would go into exile. In exile they were to share with their neighbors God's faithfulness and their unfaithfulness, and thus spread the gospel. If faithful the exile would end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah. In short two possible paths: Live faithfully in the land and the caravans will reach out to the world and the world would come to them for the gospel. The other is Go ye into all the world and spread the gospel. The Hebrews had the land until the Babylon exile, returned for 70 weeks of years of the land, and even got to stay in the land for nearly another 40 years before going back under exile theology. The age of navigation (and even more so aviation) no longer made this piece of property the center of the world, no God's people, no matter where we live, are still living under the framework of "Go ye into all the world." Those who are living on that piece of property can no longer follow the land framework. But they have a secondary job under the framework of exile: That from all the Jews suffered that they can have the joy of the land that means so much to them. Second to protect the history of the land so that we can study the Bible deeper. Third, they are holding in check the multifaceted civil war that would develop by so many of the subgroups wanting their true religion be forced upon everyone else when we look at the extremists. I pray for the more moderate Palestinian people to be freed from Hamas.1 point -
Happy Chinese New Year.
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
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1844-1888
phkrause reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
I have been encouraging people to read the bible from cover to cover for years. I don't know many who have done that.1 point -
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About the story of the Good Samaritan
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
With my dating site. www.adventistdating.com) I find that there are identifiable groups from some countries with whom I have had bad experiences and do not trust. I have to consider them on an individual basis. I admit I have failed at times, I remember an EGW quote, "If you have to err, err on the side of compassion," or something very similar.1 point -
America250 celebrations
phkrause reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
In my opinion, America is the richest country in the world, because of the blessings of God. It is estimated that there are 160 million Protestants in the USA. However, I will not be celebrating the 250th anniversary of America. Because I know her role in Prophecy. I can see that time drawing closer and closer.1 point -
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does anyone else feel like this is true
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
Gov. Walz, I hope you learned your lesson about running against Trump? To me, revenge has never been Republican or Democratic.1 point -
Diversity Marks the Remnant, but It Also Tests the Remnant
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
By Michael Peabody – On a Sabbath morning, the story often starts before anyone opens a Bible. It starts in the hallway. People arrive carrying the week on their faces. […] The post Diversity Marks the Remnant, but It Also Tests the Remnant appeared first on ReligiousLiberty.TV. View the full article1 point -
2026 Winter Olympics
phkrause reacted to Stan for a topic
It wasn't the athletes; it was when Vance spoke that they booed, and I felt better about it.1 point -
Satins throne
phkrause reacted to Joe Knapp for a topic
A comment posted online got my attention: It had 4 upvotes. 12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this: 13 ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15 So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’ I am reminded that people who are not wholly devoted to God, do not receive the Spirit of understanding as the overcomers do.1 point -
Other Church leaders have said this....
Kevin H reacted to Stan for a topic
So, what to do with those pesky immigrants?1 point -
Warning About Hot Water
Joe Knapp reacted to Gregory Matthews for a topic
Interesting! Glad you are still with us.1 point -
What makes God real to you?
Stan reacted to Bravus for a topic
I guess my question would have to be 'which God?' That's probably just because I'm too analytical, but I also don't think I can answer the question in the OP without asking that question. I've been watching this thread throughout its life, and refraining from posting. The reason was that, if the God in question is an interventionist God as usually described in Adventism and Christianity, my answer would have to be 'nothing'. Nothing makes that God real to me. I didn't want to post that because I thought it would bring my friends here down. I'm not an atheist: I do think a God exists. But it is a God that is larger than our universe, and that our universe exists within. This view is described as 'panentheism'. This infinite God contains all possibilities, and does not directly intervene in our lives. When it comes to what we can observe and measure, there is no perceptible difference between how the world looks from a panentheist perspective and from a purely naturalistic perspective. So I guess what makes God real for me is a set of beliefs and ideas, but that the God that is real for me is somewhat unlike the God worshipped by most of my friends here.1 point