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Do a digital search of EGW's writings just using the 3 key words "criticism" "condemnation" and "Christ" Read each passage carefully. The quote above is the first of a dozen like it.

Adding to what Bravus has said: the Bible warns us that we condemn others of the things we are guilty of ourselves. That gives food for thought and pause before we move forward.

Sometimes, I think people who are not satisfied with their own personal spiritual walk take comfort is saying "at least I'm not as much of an infidel/heretic/sinner/hipocryte (choose one) as THAT person". They highlight another's issues in an appempt to take the spotlight off of themselves. Sometimes when people cannot effectively respond to a challengs, they feel justified in personally attacking another rather than sticking to the issues. Anyone who thinks differently than me is an idiot.

I think perhaps before we presume to hold up a mirror for others, we may need to take a long hard look in it ourselves... Not sure about others, but there are enough massive logs in my eyes that I need to keep looking in the mirror a while longer... probably the rest of my life. I'll leave the specks of dust in others' eyes as a matter between them and the Spirit.

A pastor I know, when people come to him with criticism, tries to discern the spirit behind the complaint. Good plan! Critical statements will colour people's opinions of whomever/whatever the complaint is about. So it had better be true! And it takes many more positives to wipe out a negative. It would be nice, too, if the person with the complaint would suggest a way to fix the problem and be part of a solution.

ok, it has been about a week since the change over to this software, so far I really like it, even though somethings are different. I still can not place the ads they way I need to. The cost on this for the various things ran about $400 will do a fund raiser, after I figure out how that is done.. Appreciate everyones who help outs make this work, and to the rest of the Admin and Moderators team Thanks you Pressing forward.

I've released a new book, "the investigative judgement: am I saved?". The summary is as follows: The question that perplexes many Christians is how can I be sure I am saved? The topic of the investigative judgement, a heavenly tribunal that investigates the cases of professed believers sheds some light on this question. There can be no greater event in history, yet very few are interested in the results of this tribunal which affects the destiny of everyone who has ever lived on earth. A battle rages over the souls of men, a battle which also includes the vindication of God’s character and law. The investigative judgement is one of the most exciting doctrines in the Bible, because it reveals Christ as the all powerful Mediator. For more info please see my website http://www.adventtruth.co.uk Marc Rasell

The more I get the feel for this, the more I like it.

Things like just putting a youtube link in, the software does the rest... that caused us a lot of problems before AND YES, you can like every post you like.

When ever I see posts that include Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner... I really have not seen the post in a loving the sinner attitude... maybe that is just me.

It is capitalised on the book itself, I just didn't use caps on this post, hope you don't mind. The book is now available on amazon. Marc

YES (to Bravus)

Stan has asked me to fill a Moderator role in Club Adventist. I have agreed to moderate the Religious Liberty section. I may (?) accept other sections to moderate. But, for now, I am only moderating this section. With the move to the new software, I am experiencing a learning curve as are many of you. So, I doubt that I will be able to answer questions related to the current software. Now, on top of that, I am learning how I can exercise my role as a Moderator. I thought that I would use this post to share with you a bit about me, who I am, why I am here and my approach to Moderation. Introduction: I am here in Club Adventist because I see it as ministry. If the time ever comes when I feel that I can no longer do ministry here, I will leave. As I look at the people who post here, I consider some to be solid members of the SDA Church, some to be members who are struggling with their membership, some who are not members and want to know more about the SDA Church and others who simply want to challenge what they believe are our beliefs and practices. Within all of these groups are people who want to socialize. I welcome all of the above. I count them to be sincere and I hope that we can be of help to them. I do not see my role in any of this to be that of convincing them of truth. I attempt to share with others what the Bible says, when I believe that is what they want to know. But, I leave it to their personal study and the Holy Spirit to lead them away from error and into truth. I do not consider myself to be a theologian and I do not do very well in that role. So, I will not assume that role. Moderation: A key issue for me is that people present their view in a positive manner in which they do not attack others and groups. I understand the gospel to be a positive message. I believe that every doctrine that we as a denomination have can be presented in a positive manner. We do not have to attack other people and denominations. God has not given us the roll of determining the salvation of other people. God may have a truth. But, if the Holy Spirit has not convinced a person of that truth, they are not in a state of rebellion against God. We cannot know what the Holy Spirit has convicted another person of. I strongly suspect that when we get to heaven we will see people there whom we did not expect to be there. Expect me to look closely at how we related to other people and denominations in our posts. NOTE: At the same time, I do speak frankly. I think that it may be better at times to speak frankly than it would be to edit or remove what a person has said. I was a Moderator some years back in CA. Some of your old ones may remember that. At that time, I did edit spelling and other obvious typos. As I write this, I do not know how to edit a person’s post. In the past, when I did that, I always identified that I had done so. If I do any such, I will clearly identify that I have done so. I think it important not to change the thought that the person is attempting to present. I will not knowingly change anyone’s thought. As a Moderator, I have the power to hide, and remove posts. I would rather not do that. My preference would be to remove the offending part and leave the rest. But, at the present I do not know how to do that. So, as much as I can I will simply respond to the offending part and I may be frank in doing so. As much as possible, I will want to allow a person to say what they want to say, without editing on my part. I expect to be involved in posting. In my role as Moderator, I will bend over backwards not to inhibit people who disagree with what I said. I intend to give you a lot of freedom to disagree with me. I trust that this says a bit about me and my role as Moderator. One last point: Religious Liberty is an issue of major interest to me. However, I hold views on this subject that others may not hold. When I express my views, feel free to disagree with me.

Thank you Pam. On another point: I am beginning my role as Moderator today. I do not intend to review past posts, unless forced to do so by a new post. Whatever has been posted in the past in this thread has been posted and I do not intend to review it as a Moderator.

I always thought you did a good job as a moderator... glad you're going to be in that role again

Man by nature is obviously not comfortable looking into the public mirror under a close-up view by the public eye. And this is not limited to pastors and leaders of our church. Most of them, if not all, would rather want the congregants to shut their mouth, especially if they commit the most grievous sin. They would hate the public mirror and public eye. They rather want to face their own mirror in their solitude and blink their eye before the same mirror, only to deceive themselves that they're okay. And this will compound to self-deception as to believing that he can just do anything and just say: "Don't be judgmental!" And here's the problem: A gross misconception about the concept of criticisms. Criticism(s) must we healthy. And why are we afraid of criticism(s) anyway? Isn't it this criticizing spirit must exist for a reason? The best thing is, we must be intellectually informed and should be settling into the present truth. In order to reach out to the root of any issue at hand, the church or an individual must be able to investigate and to criticize CONSTRUCTIVELY (not destructively) the object of curiosity, only if it is meant for the edification of the church. And the examiner must have that boldness to deal the same issue with the subject or prospect under scrutiny. To this end, one may be so uncomfortable about criticism(s). But, a "criticizing spirit" is crucial in the process of correcting and purifying one's soul. After all, the final arbiter of the truth is the Holy Spirit. Therefore, one must fear not of any criticizing spirit.

I thought convincing/convicting someone of their sins was the job of the Holy Spirit.....not you or me. If someone had come at me with "you're an evil person and gonna burn in hell," and proceeded to list my "sins" because I was a witch, it would have turned me even further from any association whatsoever with Christians.

When a person finds the Lord and starts reading the Bible, they come to grips with trying to understand Good and Evil -- and how we are supposed to "love the sinner" but "hate the sin".... and like it or not, a born-again person is going to have to come to grips with "hating" sin! And when they write about it or speak against it, they may not exactly do it in a "lukewarm" manner -- and the people who read it have to deal with the possible intense negative aspect of it. God Himself has very strong "critical" views of sin and sinners -- it's just the way it is on this planet. Being "critical" is a part of the refining process. Just ask my wife. <grin>

Marc, is there a reason for not capitalising the title of your book?.... I hope the printer didn't typeset the title on the book that way.... <grin>

There was a religious woman who had to do a lot of traveling for her business. Flying made her very nervous, so she always took her Bible along with her. One time, she was sitting next to a man. When he saw her pull out her Bible, he gave a little chuckle and smirk and went back to what he was doing. After awhile, he turned to her and asked, "You don't really believe all that stuff in there do you?" The woman replied, "Of course I do. It is the Bible." He said, "Well, what about that guy that was swallowed by that whale?" She replied, "Oh, Jonah. Yes, I believe that, it is in the Bible." He asked, "Well, how do you suppose he survived all that time inside the whale?" The woman said, "Well, I don't really know. I guess when I get to heaven, I will ask him." "What if he isn't in heaven?" the man asked sarcastically. "Then you can ask him," replied the woman.

Nice to see you, Marc!

Well, off the top of my head. (1) They are hurting so much that they are bitter and don't realize how their words sounds. (2) They really think that they are helping and don't realize how they are coming across. I'm sure there are probably more reasons.

Hmmmmmm? John 3:16 "God so loved the world (every human being who would ever exist) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him might not perish, but have everlasting life." Whosoever indicates a part of a larger group. The larger group would be "the world". Only part of "the world" would believe. Samie seems to be saying that God will do the believing FOR US. And more than that - IF every human began life "in Christ" then everyone already believed. That doesn't FIT. The LORD sends information. He draws us by His Spirit. Our part is to respond with BELIEF. The response of "belief" to the stimulus of information+Spirit, is NOT works. Fact is - one has to fight hard NOT to believe. One has to "resist" the Spirit. Once one gives in to God and believes, THEN he/she will be tempted to disobey God's express commands. He is pulled back toward sin. Then he has to resist the temptation. But the LORD will help - because NOW He has been invited into the heart.

Still only speculation on your part... How do you reckon that God dealt with errors of fact or science or geography of the writers of Scripture? Did He try to correct all their errors? There are a number of other documented errors in EGW's writings, such as historical facts in GC. But many of the things she wrote reflected current knowledge and understanding and not directly inspired details. She herself spoke inspiration as more of a prompting of the person than verbal dictation from God of all the particular details and word choices. Why didn't God tell her she goofed on those as well? Might it be that God looks on such human imperfections, mistakes, misunderstandings with a much more forgiving and charitable perspective than we give it? Maybe He was less concerned about this issue than we are, seeing no need to introduce new of vastly differing facts and understandings that would detract from the message points He wanted conveyed. As for the people having grape juice as an enhancement as compared to good quality fermented wine, that is clearly not what the text says. It is more wistful thinking on your part. The steward didn't refer to the age of wine by describing it as tasting like freshly squeezed from the grapes, like very new wine. (Fermentation begins almost immediately after without refrigeration...) He clearly describes it as the good stuff that was intoxicating. Big difference in flavor there and virtually no possibility of confusion. Even a little alcohol in fruit juice can be tasted.

Jim, I know very well the good Adventist "pure grape juice" explanation. ( It's not original to Adventists, by the way. Baptists, among others, beat us to that idea.) However it is simply not supported by a careful reading of Scripture. The translations into English can blur the line a bit since the word in English often used in that key verse in the account of the wedding at Cana - "drunk" can mean both intoxicated or simply the past participle tense of "drink". However, if you read the original Greek, the word, methyō, used in the passage precisely and only means "intoxicated" So when the steward of the feast tastes the wine he goes to the bridegroom and asks him why he saved the best wine until last. And the steward specifically describes the best wine he just tasted as the kind that people drink first until they are intoxicated so you can bring out the poorer quality wine when the intoxicated guests won't care or be so able to tell the difference since they are already too intoxicated to care or tell the difference. And beyond that one story, you really cannot make a solid case for total abstinence from alcohol from Scripture. It does condemn drunkenness, but generally speaks in neutral terms about drinking fermented beverages short of drunkenness and even at a few points positively as the case where Paul suggests a little wine for Timothy's stomach ailment instead of drinking the bad water. I am not in any way suggesting we all take up drinking or that abstinence should no longer be taught. But it should be on its own contemporary terms for healthful living and not a thus sayeth the Word. Because that is simply not what Scripture says about it.

I believe that God has created us with the ability to respond to Him. Put simply - It's a RELATIONSHIP. A relationship - by definition, involves invitation/response. The LORD knocks, calls (thru information being presented, and speaking to the heart). The individual then must "open the "door". The individual responds with belief/faith, inviting the LORD to "come in". When the LORD "comes in" belief/faith is strengthened - and works flow. The LORD will NOT respond for us. He is NOT into mind/heart control. He has allowed us this "free will". (Satan would like to take it away, but God will not allow it - UNTIL probation closes.) Why you think of the individual's response as "works" - I don't understand. Now - I grant that "works" do flow FROM belief/faith. We act BECAUSE we believe. Those "works"/actions demonstrate our belief. They will be evidence in the judgment. Samie, I know that you believe that the name of EVERY human being was written in the Book of Life before the "foundation of the world", but that doesn't make it so. You can repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat that mantra - "every name was written", but that doesn't make it so. I believe that one's name is written into the Book of Life WHEN he/she is "born again" thru the infilling of the Spirit of Christ. Can young children be "born again"? No. That is why we don't baptize small children. They cannot process the information, therefore they cannot "believe". Can those who have never heard the information (gospel) be "born again"? No. Can the mentally disabled be "born again"? No. They also cannot process the information. HENCE my belief that children will NOT be resurrected and taken straight to heaven. THAT scenario would REQUIRE mind-control, in order to ensure their continued co-operation with God. HENCE my belief that children will be resurrected along with "the rest of the dead" at the 8th millennium, to grow up, hear the gospel, then respond or finally rebel. I realize that does not FIT with the SDA/EGW scenario. We have discussed all of this in the other threads. So you are bringing it up again - WHY? You must believe that you have more proofs of some kind. I will read them, but doubt I will agree. Rachel Cory Prophecy Viewpoint

I belong to Para Vista SDA here in South Australia, we have a "rock band" for praise and worship as do several other local SDA churches. If you believe that this speaker above speaks for the SDA, you are very much mistaken. Did the Rev Fred Phelps speak for all Baptists? Did Benny Hinn speak for all AOG people?

Yes, Bonnie's article is interesting. However, in truth, global warming predicts that the polar regions may at times grow larger in size as a result of global warming. Global warming includes three potential aspects: 1) Warmer air typically carries more water (In the tropics it is typically more humid than in other areas.) than colder air. 2) Warmer air typically increases evaporation from the ocean. 3) Shrinkage of sea ice leads to an increased exposure of ocean water. This leads to more evaporation and increased snowfall. Therefore, global warming can lead to both increased warming and increased snowfall. Depending on the geographic area and which dominates, global warming can, in the early stages, produce both increased growth in the ice sheets and a decay in those ice sheets. It is of interest to note that while land ice shrinkage does affect sea level, shrinkage of sea ice does not affect sea level. This is due to the fact that sea ice is in equilibrium with the ocean on which it floats. NOTE: The information above has come from a NASA release. I seemingly do not know how to quote material and post it in this new forum. So, I have stated the above in my own words.

I have noticed that there are a number of "ministries" very similar to this often by recent converts with an entertainment background. The zeal of recent converts is often admirable, but often quite misguided. There is a pendulum effect with many converts swinging from one extreme over to the other. And it is not too unusual for the pendulum to keep swinging from one extreme to another, sometimes on the same opposite side of a topic but more often from one fringe hobby horse idea to a other. On the topic of music, there are a number of more balanced perspectives thankfully. A very helpful book to understand the neurological and psychological effects of music is "This Is Your Brain On Music: The Science of a Human Obsession" by Daniel J. Levitin. The author is uniquely qualified for the topic both as a musician and scientist. Here is his bio from the Amazon website: "Daniel J. Levitin is the James McGill Professor of Psychology and Music at McGill University, Montreal, where he also holds appointments in the Program in Behavioural Neuroscience, The School of Computer Science, and the Faculty of Education. An award-winning teacher, he now adds best-selling author to his list of accomplishments as "This Is Your Brain on Music" and "The World in Six Songs" were both Top 10 best-sellers, and have been translated into 16 languages. Before becoming a neuroscientist, he worked as a session musician, sound engineer, and record producer working with artists such as Stevie Wonder and Blue Oyster Cult. He has published extensively in scientific journals as well as music magazines such as Grammy and Billboard. Recent musical performances include playing guitar and saxophone with Sting, Bobby McFerrin, Rosanne Cash, David Byrne, and Rodney Crowell."