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Something is broken, when the concern is the sex gender rather than what gets accomplished.

I love happy endings!

We have all been delighted for you both.

That is sort of how I took it too. And it really goes to our motivation and level of spiritual maturity. When children are little they obey their parents out of a sense of wanting to please them and at a very basic level to avoid the pain of their displeasure and get the reward of their approval. That may not reflect much intrinsic understanding of why the behavior is correct or beneficial in and of itself. The evidence of that is when a young child's obedience is less likely when Mommy turns her back and older children misbehave or try to get away with more when parents aren't present. And without maturing to a higher level, that basic pain/pleasure motivation becomes less effective unless it is consistently present and fairly immediate as a consequence of the behavior. Self actualization begins to internalize motivation and understand meaning of behavior. Long term consequences can work. We relate to God in much the same way.

http://juniaproject.com/but-twelve-apostles-all-male/

I find it interesting that there is opposition to the idea of women being ordained ministers and that they must keep silent in the church. Was not the SDA founded largely by the efforts of two women that God raised up? - Rachel Oakes Preston and Ellen G White? Both of these women were anything but silent in their churches and taught males truths from Scripture. In Rachel Oakes Preston's case it was through her that the teaching of the Sabbath became accepted by the then Millerites who were willing to listen who later became the SDA. If God can not call a woman into ministry, why did He call these two women with such dramatic results in terms of millions of people having been born again via the fruit of their ministry?

I am happy to read both views! Like I said, I didn't read it myself. Now I am thinking that it might have some historical value along the lines of Questions on Doctrine.

I was 11 yrs old when the teacher read it to us in 6th grade. It gave me nightmares.

that was it! Merikay Silver McLeod's NOW. thanks LynnDel!

sorta like refusing to eat a meal if a woman did the cooking... despite the fact that she not only was meticulous in her preparation and choice of foods, but also knew how to decorate a cake, and had talent in setting a delightful table, to boot...

I find it rather odd that Christian world is essentially cannibalizing concepts that are visibly true, because they need to voice their "conservatism" and "fundamentalism". The latest Victoria Osteen outrage is quite puzzling to me. Her direct quote: "I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy, So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" What fundamentalists around the net hear, when they listen to the soundbite is "Don't do things for God... do things for yourself". And they attack the above as though that's what she meant The obvious concept is quite ironic, because she essentially says: "Grow Up, and stop doing things because daddy says so. Stop eating veggies "for God", and instead understand that it's good for you, and do it for that reason... because that's what God wants you to do, because He wants you to be happy and prosperous". People turn around and cry Blasphemy! , and I find it absolutely hillarious, because to me such objection signals that they think that : 1) God has no interest in you being happy 2) Hey only wants you to do things for Him, and not because you think it's good for you 3) He wants you to brainlessly follow and give him props for anything that's good, and blame yourself for anything that's bad I find it both disturbing and sad, but in a rather ironic way. Someone says "Do good because you understand that it's good for you, and it will benefit as a result ... and that's what God ultimately desires", and people scream BLASPHEMY! God doesn't want that, because it makes God look "less important". It's just sad.

CoAspen: HCH's comment is a great example of eisegesis.

Yes. Ultimately, the 10 C's and a few other Biblical commands are for our own good, to protect us from harming each other, and ourselves, a great benefit to all mankind. Far too many do not want this.

yay!!!!God is Good!!!!!

I'm guessing... the Camping/Jones translation

Good article. However there are a few other points that I wish it included: The 12 full time disciples would have had 24 hour access to their rabbi and thus needed to be of the same sex. The first time the word "Apostle" was used was when Jesus told her to "Apostle the disciples and Peter." (the critics argue that this is given as a verb rather than a noun). An apostle was one who had studied with Jesus and was a witness of his resurrection and thus sent out to testify of what they learned from him and that they were witnesses to his resurrection. As stated among the 70 there could have well been women. Also, the issue of Women's Ordination was a hot topic in Jesus' day, with the liberals opposed to it and saying that Judaism should STOP ordaining women and stop making women's garments with the blue thread in them and limit the blue thread to male garments. The conservatives did ordain women and there have been found lists of Archsynogogists that included women's names. This is an interesting study and we need to ask "Did Jesus say or do anything that indicated his stand on this hot topic in his day?" (and yes he did but because we don't know the culture we read the passage and it goes over our heads with out noticing.)

My back is better than I expected it to be. Also my mom is doing remarkable well from her set backs this year. We are fixing up the house for her. Still not a dating life yet.

That happens to me all the time, hch. I am going to assume no one else was interested in the topic. :)

Your timing is great.

Imagine following several topics and seeing that you had the last word. Then they stopped.

I love this. It's great to hear about something *wonderful* that happened on 9/11 !!!

Hey Bravus, Your post is very insightful. Surely we do not want to become one with the accusor of the brethren. But would Jesus advise us to leave the dirt in anyone's eye? Luke 6:42 "Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye." But there is a danger that if we try to (ever so gently) suggest that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, others will not see the problem but interpret the need to address the problem as an attack on individuals. And they will react according to their perception rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. It makes it difficult. Cry aloud and spare not: Say something and risk hurting someone’s feelings or keep quiet? The sins of commission or omission? What's in your comfort zone?

HCH, what documentation do you have as to who filled our EGWs data sheet and which data sheet do our reference? IT should be noted that the EGW Estate has several of what HCH has probably called a data sheet.

Her comments go along with what I hope we all understand. Our creator knows what we need to be happy and healthy, and He told us how to do it. He's not standing around with a brickbat waiting to whop us on the head when we don't follow the owners' manual; our lives, bodies, and emotions will naturally do that job. LD

It's just you, Stan. Moving on... a criticizing spirit, to me, is when a person makes it their mission, whether purposely or subconsciously, to find something wrong in every situation. They have the skill of sucking the joy out of your day. I have to watch out for this in myself, because I am always looking for ways to make things better, and any comments in that direction can sound like criticism. Self reformation is a hard task. LD

Did you get your back issues resolved, Kevin? How goes the dating goal?

People sometimes come to Club Adventist and talk about the beliefs of others. They may ask what other groups believe. They may attempt to state the beliefs of others. How many really know what Atheists believe and why they may not be Christian? This issue may be important to people who want to interact with Atheists. For if one want to dialogue with a person about their religious beliefs, it just may be important to know what they believe. One book that may be helpful in this respect is: David Mills. ATHEIST UNIVERFSE: THE THINKING PERSON'S ANSWER TO CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM. Ulysses press, 2006, 271 pages. A couple of comments: 1) The author rejects Christianity based upon several doctrines that he understands the Bible teaches, that SDAs do not believe the Bible teaches. 2) This is not a book that should be read by someone who cannot tolerate a challenge to their faith.

I may have to pick that book up. I find knowledgable atheists to be a real challenge to my faith. I have been doing research on the internet; and I have been sometimes been tempted to re-label myself as a 'theistic agnostic". I strongly believe in God and His Son; and trust that some of the experiences I have had (or imagined that I have had) are real. But do I have any rational, hard, objective evidence to show others that there is a God and a Jesus? No. Yet, I am personally convicted of His reality; and than He really does have my back.

A rebuke is most effective when a person has a positive relationship with the person. The Internet, such as Club Adventist does not always lend itself to building such.

If we look at God ultimate act of judgment is exacting justice as punishing and destroying evil we are more likely to rush to judgment now and feel a need to lend Him a helping hand before the time is ripe for judgment. Reading those statements by EGW she points out that by do so by our acts of criticism, condemnation and unwisely rebuking others, we foreclose souls hope and opportunity of redemption, pushing those most in need away from the One who can restore them. But if we recognize that God's justice and mercy are one and the same that Divine justice is about setting things right, fixing what is broken, healing the sick and wounded, and creating all things new again, redemption takes on a whole new hue of grace which we are to become dispensers of. Extending grace builds up, uplifts and draws all toward the One who restores the victims of sin to full life as He meant it to be. We are all victims of sin in need of the same restoration.

There have been a few prophecy-based threads on here that have been quite animated; but not mean. The posters are pretty passionate about prophecy (myself being among them); but I think they have pretty much stuck to "what does the Lord say" rather than "I'm right and you're wrong, dummy". They feel like some of the Sabbath School classes I've attended!

I think what matters most when it comes to constructively criticizing the object or subject of curiosity is for the examiner to demonstrate compassion and humility. With these two traits, such one should have the ability to listen, to discern (as a matter of gift) and to find ways to see beyond the issue at hand with care. I would not want to use the word "LOVE" in this respect all because, for many, it is too big a word and too abstract to comprehend and it is perhaps the most abused word of all time. After all, "love'" is about Jesus and of Jesus - nothing more, nothing less. If only we can internalize, nonetheless, to view the concept of "hating toward sin and loving toward the sinner" through the eyes of how Jesus distinctly deals with sin and the sinner, criticism(s) would just become a healthy factor for one's Christian experience. And let me tell you this: it's not too late to have such reviving spirit in the process of refining even affecting the examiner's soul above guilt-driven recompense, that which leads one to foster the fortitude of reciprocity as to healing. Valid criticism(s), depending on how you convey it to the subject, must bring moral and social responsibility to effect such purported mutual healing.

I tend to agree with you. It runs along the same lines of "thanking God" for all His blessings (food, safe trip, good grades, etc), and blaming the devil for the bad stuff...

okay, so I'm a scrooge.. I was just stating what appeared to be a reason that some otherwise interesting threads just die a short, quick death... isn't it possible that those threads that have only the :: cough, cough :: "short, appreciative comments" would actually have more comments, but for the bland "this is good", "this is nice", etc comments? Do you actually go back and read what exactly was "good", "nice", or whatever? If someone is truly wanting to be appreciative, why not state what it was that intrigued the responder so much? That would be much more effective...and it might pique the curiosity of those who hadn't seen the OP. Even the "thumbs up" gives a visual clue that the OP or other post was of import and note. However, I realize my was just that.... and very few generally see things from differing perspectives. I'll throw away the soap box and try to fit back into the mold....

And I am glad that you have told us about it. How interesting!

very much appreciate your service to the Country! (I'm kinda glad you weren't deployed to Afghanistan...)

A big thank you to you Kevin for your service. I greatly admire the sacrifices it takes.

Thank you Kevin for sharing and more important, Thank you for your service. Your time meeting the wounded in Germany had to be an emotional time. To give courage and comfort to those who are suffering from traumatic experiences is commendable.

Thank you for your service. You have undergone much disruption in your life, over the years, as you have remained in the Reserves. I tried that once and decided it was not for me. So, I went active.