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This is my own private joke, you are not allowed to read this. Reading this constitutes trespassing.

The drink that the Roman soldier gave Christ on the cross, a sour wine called gall, was fermented. He refused it. Why? I believe it was because He didn't want anything to dull His senses, even when suffering unbelievable agony. So if He would'nt take a fermented drink on the cross, why would He have done it in everyday life? To me this is where all the arguments on the other side of aisle break down.

I didn't find those sins hard to resist. I thought they were wonderful. I loved them. I had no sorrow for indulging in them. Character change is the result of being saved from sin. What is character? It is who we are at our core. What we believe in, what we do when the chips are down, what we do when no one is looking. That's what we will take to heaven. There's no other part of us that is worth keeping. It's the guarantee that sin will never rise again. That's why submitting to God and obeying Him is so important. It's the tool God uses to change our characters, and character change never happens all at once. Character is built one day, one moment, at a time, It's the result of our choices. That's why sanctification is, as Ellen White says, the work of a lifetime. It's also why sin is never overcome in a moment. So, the arguments about Christ only saving us from the results_of/condemnation_of sin fall flat because the very tools He uses to remove sin from us, or in other words, perfect us, require time. That doesn't mean His tools that remove sin from us are weak. It means they work hand-in-hand with human nature, not outside of human nature. This is why Ellen White says all we really have is the power of choice. The rest of it is God's work for only He knows each one of us how to go about removing sin from us. I couldn't even begin to say how to do that about myself, let alone some one else. Where would I start? Where would I end? It's all about trusting God to keep His promises because then we will go and do what God asks of us, and the result of that is God sanctifying us. That's why sanctification is by faith, just as much as justification is.

That was a nice summary of my affirmation of the totality of Scriptures teaching on the subject.

Rachel: The doctrine of the Trinity is a complex doctrine that I generally believe that most people, to include myself, do not fully understand. I have great respect for you even though I have stated that I do not believe you fully understand it. I am sorry that you consider me to be condescending in saying that. It is simply how I see you. The following quotation from your post above illustrates what I believe to be a failure to understand: Your first statement is wrong. SDA Trinitarians do believe that Chrlist was actually the Son of God. They believe that Christ became Son of God at the incarnation and he at that time was the Son of God. Your second statement as to the role that each took, is just as wrong as was your first.

I've always been fascinated by the beauty of those rice paddies on steep mountainsides.

Not really. It's saying that his religion, which has a great deal to do with who he is, makes him someone that is/would be a lousy candidate for President. It's make his religion a disqualification for being President. It was the same with Romney. He was attacked for being a Mormon. That's a personal attack as it has nothing to do with his being qualified for being President, and nothing to do the issues before our country.