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{backs out of the room veerrryyy sllooowwwlllyyy}

I remember the first time I tasted beer. I was in the first grade. After I would go to my sister's daycare mother's house (where we stayed until our parents got us in the evening). Now my daycare mom's husband used to smoke and drink. He didn't work much. Their bin in the kitchen was always full of beer bottles. So, one day I became curious. I wanted to know how it tasted because he really liked it. I mean he really liked it based on the amount of beer bottles in the bin every day. Therefore, beer must be good. So, I scratched in the bin when no one was around, found a beer bottle with a little beer in and took a sip. It was the worst tasting beverage that ever crossed my lips. I could rinse my mouth out enough and vowed to never drink beer again. Later I learned from Patrick Holford that our first reaction to food is usually an indication to their goodness. (Obviously there are exceptions to this rule of thumb, like the Hunter's alcoholic apple cider my late uncle used to share with me and his grandson round about that time in my life.) And the other reason I don't drink alcohol is a matter of integrity. How can I claim to be a member of a church that is clearly against the consumption of alcohol and yet drink a bit of it in private? Also how would I be able to reconcile my belief that EG White is a true prophet with my adherence to a practice she condemns in her "official" writings?

Llife said: If the best you can say is "somewhat much," you, in my opinion, are out of touch reality. Not in my wildest dreams would i want to have 300 wives and 600 concubnes. I would go well beyond "somewhat much." To all reading here, please take this as my dry sense of humor.

I do declare: We have posters who are dabbling in Rorschach theory!

Until today I did not! William and Catherine Booth. Founders of the Salvation Army. "It is a great delusion to suppose that flesh-meat of any kind is essential to health. Considerably more than three parts of the work in the world is done by men who never taste anything but vegetable, farinaceous food, and that of the simplest kind. There are more strength-producing properties in wholemeal flour, peas, beans, lentils, oatmeal, roots, and other vegetables of the same class, than there are beef or mutton, poultry or fish, or animal food of any description whatever." (Orders and Regulations of the Officers of the Salvation Army) John Wesley. (Founder of Methodism and Wesleyanism.) "Thanks be to God!" he wrote to the bishop of London in 1747. "Since the time I gave up the use of flesh-meats and wine, I have been delivered from all physical ills." Partly inspired by Isaiah's vision of the Kingdom of Peace, where "on the new earth, no creature will kill, or hurt, or give pain to any other" (Is. 11:6-9), Wesley further taught that animals "shall receive ample amends for all their present sufferings." (Sources: Christian History magazine) Tony Campolo. Author and speaker, adviser to President Clinton. "In this day and age, it is important for us to consider vegetarianism - not only for health reasons, but also for the good of the planet. We all know the environmental implications of the increasing dependency of Western civilization on a meat diet. Furthermore, we are aware of how depending on beef has diminished the amount of protein that would otherwise be available to the general population." Moby "b. Richard Melville Hall, 11 September 1965, New York, USA. A New York DJ, recording artist, Christian, vegan and Philosophy graduate. Moby is so nicknamed because of the fact that he can trace his ancestry to the author of the famous whaling tale." Also: proprietor of TeaNY cafe. "I'm often asked, 'well, as a vegan, what do you eat?' which seems like such a strange question. What do non-vegans eat? Meat, cheese, milk, eggs? Vegans eat everything else. Indian food, Chinese food, Mexican food, Thai food, Japanese food, African food, and so on, and so on. "Whether I'm having a pan bagnia sandwich (olive tapenade, roasted red peppers, basil and onions, on ciabatta bread) at Teany, my restaurant, or having marinated exotic mushrooms with mixed baby greens and an orange vinaigrette in Paris, or having fajitas in Los Angeles, or vegan Chinese food in lower Manhattan, or vegan Pad Thai in Melbourne, or etc etc - I'm always a very happy eater. "Primarily I'm a vegan for ethical reasons, but if the truth be told it's the culinary aspect of veganism that has sustained me for 16 years of animal-product free living." (World Vegan Day statement)

If voter ID *doesn't* help Republicans politically, why are they putting resources into fighting for it everywhere? We might like to think it's an altruistic attempt to improve the functioning of democracy, but these are pretty hardheaded people (on all sides of politics). They do what they think will help them win elections. The issue also comes back to one Lazarus raised much earlier: if, as the OP tries to intimate, the Republican party is much better for African-American voters, why do they overwhelmingly not vote for it? (On the other hand, it's also terrible for poor whites, and they *do* vote for it, so there are holes in that argument.) I think the bottom line in this broader debate is that both parties have moved a long way. For a whole variety of reasons, the Republicans have moved, in recent decades and years, to being a party that is dismissive and contemptuous of anyone who is not a white male of a certain age, ideally an oligarch of some sort. Black males of a certain age who are very wealthy are sometimes admitted to the club, but I don't see one being the Presidential nominee anytime in the next decade. Do you? Given these moves - and the Democrats parallel move away from past racist strategies - information from history is of very little use or relevance in considering the parties today and who to vote for. Which party is going to extend the franchise as broadly as possible and seek to protect the poor and vulnerable in society? Which party aligns with your values? (of the parties available to vote for now: the Republican party of Lincoln is not on the ballot)

One of the better biblical examples that makes it very plain that God's best gifts to man can be totally subverted, is the gift of wisdom given to Solomon as outlined in Ecclesiastes. Despite the fact that I'm satisfied that the beauty of women far exceeds men, even I believe 300 wives and 600 concubines to be somewhat much. Knowing that God knew in advance he was going to act this way, one might wonder what God had in mind. Knowing Him to never act with anything less than love in mind, I'm of the opinion that for a general lesson to mankind, it could have included "the more we think we know, the more we know that we know nothing". That would of course, be in comparison to what we will know when we see our change. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13 God is Love! Jesus saves!

A lifelong unchurched man suddenly develops a vague religious urge and decides to join a church--any church. So he sets out to find one. His first stop is a Roman Catholic church where he asks what he has to do to join. The priest mentions diligent study and the affirmation of the Nicene and Apostles' Creeds, then--just to see how much the man knows--asks him where Jesus was born. "Pittsburgh," he answers. "Get out!" cries the shocked priest.Next stop is a Southern Baptist church where the seeker is told he would have to learn Bible verses, swear belief in the Nicene and Apostles' creeds, swear off booze, and be baptized ("By immersion, not just some sissy sprinklin'"). The Baptist preacher then, to see how much this man knows, asks him where Jesus was born. "Philadelphia?" he asks tentatively (once bitten, twice shy). "Get out, you heathen!" yells the preacher. Our perplexed protagonist finally walks into a Unitarian church where he is told all he has to do is sign a membership card. "You mean I don't have to renounce anything, swear to anything, or be dunked in anything?" "That's right. We have no special tests for membership, no dogma. We support total individual freedom of belief." "Then I'll join! But tell me--where was Jesus born?" "Why, Bethlehem, of course." The man's face lights up. "I knew it was some place in Pennsylvania!"

Does the fact I'd vote for black politicians who believe in the same things I do make me a racist in your eyes too? Probably. I'm a conservative so I have to be racist, right? Are you a racist because you wouldn't vote for, or agree with, a conservative black politician? If you're going to be honest you must say yes, because you evidently believe that disagreeing with a black politician makes a person a racist.

Lets not tempt them, or they might just go for it!!