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Was the ordination of women ever voted down? What was the vote in 1990? The GC has never voted that WO is unbiblical, only that it was not acceptable at that time. It might not be quite clear what was voted down.

God is Love! Jesus saves!

Gerry.... My argument here is not that men & women, who are walking in the Spirit, cannot reflect Christ, but that mankind is void of the key ingredient that makes it possible to keep the law. That ingredient is agape. Mankind is born with only self-love or iniquity, not agape.

Clearly we must be changed. That would imply we are unfit for heaven this side of eternity.

I thought we've beaten this horse to death before!!!

If God is so loving so as to "give in" to homosexuality, is He not loving enough to also "give in" to drunkards, drug addicts, compulsive gossipers, and serial murderers?

My personal thoughts: It is a mixed bag. Some findings are believed to support the Bible and other findings are believed to cast doubt on the bible. Of course some findings are tentative and on many issues the scholars are divided, so it may depend on whom you accept.

Yes, apologies if I was unclear - I definitely didn't mean you need to have done your own original archaeological research! You can definitely draw on work done by others. It's just that copying and pasting (and links) are usually used to just dump large undigested chunks of other people's thoughts. What I was hoping for in asking for your own words is your own thoughts. Evidence that you have read, thought on, tested and understood what you share.

I have this hanging on my wall here in the house. It's not from the Bible, but I like it nonetheless...

Amen to that, Gerry! Not one of us is better than they because our particular weakness is not in that direction. We ALL have something that needs Jesus, and probably more than we like to admit to.

So did Pam get the drift of what you were trying to say? Perhaps you could at least explain how you think we twisted and added to what you said? I have to say that your apparent evasiveness is not helping your credibility in this conversation. I really doubt it has to do with English not being your mother tongue. Your use of English reflects sufficient fluency to explain yourself.

Fine....so pray tell what illustration did God use to show this? All I see is Head-Body. Shepherd-Sheep. Etc. Now I realize the Papacy believes and incorporates an hierachy, which the reforming churches copied to some degree...but I have to go by my bible and I am just not seeing any intermediaries between Christ and His people, His body.

The administrators' behavior is indicative of a common cognitive disability related to underdevelopment in the right amygdala. The function of this part of the brain includes processing the emotional significance of stimuli, especially threat assessment, so being stunted in this area tends to result in various kinds of irrational risk aversion.

It certainly has been "strange fire" to me. We at least did lip service to the idea of only Christ as the Head of the church...but perhaps what has confused many converts is our walk does not match our talk?

When I graduated from the SDA Theolgical Seminary in 1958 we had never heard of this strange Male Headship. It came much later as a new strange theory.

I wish it could be sent to each GC Session delegate

Two bees ran into each other. The first bee asked the other how things were going. "Really bad," said the second bee. "The weather has been really wet and damp and there aren't any flowers or pollen, so I can't make any honey." "No problem," said the first bee. "Just fly down five blocks and turn left. Keep going until you see all the cars. There's a Bar Mitzvah going on and there are all kinds of fresh flowers and fruit." "Thanks for the tip," said the second bee, and he flew away. A few hours later, the two bees ran into each other again. The first bee asked, "How'd it go?""Great!" said the second bee. "It was everything you said it would be." "Uh, what's that thing on your head?" asked the first bee. "That's my yarmulke," said the second bee. "I didn't want them to think I was a wasp."

One pastor ordered 50 copies of this book. How many copies will you order of this important book?

Back in 1849 the first female physician graduated from an American medical school. Ellen White never disapproved of female physicians. I recall that she stated a female physician could work on both male and female patients while it is preferabe to have female physicians help women. Would this not apply to female ministers as well?

Dr. Jan Paulsen speaks on the possible challenges that may result from a GC vote on WO. http://www.atoday.org/article/2547/news/...s-on-challenges After you read the above article, please read the responses made to the article. For one response, quoted in part, and written with tongue in check, read the one that begins: Quote: I totally agree. And I wish slaves would know their place also. The amount of resources our forefathers wasted on that infiltrated abolitionist movement, which was culture invading Christianity, given both the OT and NT affirm the institution of slavery, was abismal. And that time, effort and money could have been better spent on more important things, like building higher steeples in our churches or polishing our rosterums. * * * * * The above is only a brief part of a longer post.

One of the churches in which I am active openly accepts gays in whatever stage of recovery they are in (including no desire to recover). By the grace of God, I am not particularly homophobic; so I am OK befreinding LGBT's. Most gays and lesbians seem to have a sufficiently sensitive radar to know who they can "hit on" and who they can't. Those who have inadvertantly hit on my have only done so once; and fully rspect my sexual rejection. They also appreciate that I don't reject them as friends. I totally agree with Gregory that we are all somewhere on a spectrum of sexual orientation. I also like his distinction between "behavior" and "orientation"; and the treatability of both. Some people claim to be "experimenting" (which is beyond my sense of adventure); while others claim to have known they were "different" from their earliest memories. The church mentioned above is affiliated with an organization called "Where Grace Abounds" - an outreach to people with any sort of socially "unacceptable" sexual issues (not just homosexuality) who are dealing with the spiritual conflicts involved with these issues. Some claim to be "cured", some who were "cured" have fallen back; some have made no progress at all. Our view is that Jesus loves them all equally; and we are to support them at whatever stage they are.

Problems with proof texts: Yes, for some the problems are more than for other texts. Again, I recommend the book I mentioned. It mentions various texts and says that some, not all, should not be used.

In some cases that might be true and in other cases it might be false.

{backs out of the room veerrryyy sllooowwwlllyyy}

wow, i like this new thought. women are not to be given a lower standard of responsibility. human beings equally can serve God and minister the Gospel to the world. we are a nation a spiritual nation of priests. it is because we do this through the power of the Holy Spirit not through the power of our flesh, whatever gender our flesh is.