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Here is my issue with this whole "self" thing. Biblically speaking, you believe that God gives you life. One life, you do not reincarnate, transmigrate or any other of the ates....... you are a unique and special snowflake. So in essence you believe that God created your identity, your unique identity. That is your "self". So my question to you Robert would be why are you so hell bent on destroying a gift from the being you believe to be your creator. Like anything else it can used for something good or for something wrong. That comes down to accountability and honesty, by looking at that gift and asking yourself if you are using it in the most constructive way possible. If not - make a change.

It never fails to amaze me how homosexuality gets lumped in there with those........ The air up there on the high horse of the "non-sinners" must be pretty sweet. But the view looking down the nose at others is always a little obstructed.......

Pray for my son Steven.He is only 49 and today exhibited all the symptoms of a stroke. He was to meet boss at Caribou coffee and go onto a appointment. He suddenly became totally confused,didn't know where he was and why he was there. He was trying to call someone and accidently hit speed dial for his oldest daughter.She immediately knew something was horribly wrong but could not find out from Steven exactly where he was. Finally between his wife and daughter they got his location. He remembers nothing of today until after 3:00 and he is still foggy on details. He is having a MRI now so should have some answers soon. All of it mirrors my husband's history of strokes beginning at a young age. Can only hope and pray there is a less serious answer to this

apparently, someone blew out his pilot light...

When we look at people through the eyes of God, we see that everyone is broken in one way or another; at God loves us all anyways; and accepts all of us into the Family if we want to be there. Once we are sons and daughters, He begins teaching us the family values and the family business. Some of us learn more quickly than others. I'm OK with being a slow learner; I'm still in the Family!

We say that we believe that God has many people outside of the SDA Church. Perhaps it is in congregations like this on that is preparing people who will be found to be part of the family of God at the 2nd Advent. Reminds me of John the Baptist.

IMO: We will need a thousand years (after the resurrection) before our defensive and self-preserving thought habits will be healed. We are ALL suffering from post traumatic stress. It's called living - in this world. Every one of us has been slighted, or rejected, or manipulated, or abused in some way - many times by Christians (so called). The healing will take time. I do NOT believe that our minds will be changed in an instant. Only our bodies. God does NOT manipulate minds. He changes them slowly - by presenting evidence, and His truth. If He was going to instantly change our thinking (our minds) then He should have done that in the first place - with Adam and Eve, and skipped this whole mess!! Much of our selfishness comes out because we live in flesh. We get tired. We get hungry. We get cold, or too warm. (We want air-conditioning.) We get headaches, or backaches, or aching feet. We have trouble sleeping, etc. etc. etc. We worry that we will not have those things we feel we "need" in order for our flesh to remain comfortable. We then horde our money (or stuff). Just having immortal flesh that does not feel physical pain, will free us from A LOT. But it will NOT solve everything. When I consider myself only - I know that I am still carnal (selfish). But I cling to the promise that I will one day be "like Him". It is only thru the indwelling - "Christ in me" - that I exhibit ANY "agape". My husband was baptized some 8 years after my conversion experience. I asked him, the day he was baptized, what made him finally come to believe and want to commit. He did not hesitate for a second. "The change in you," he said. "I fell in love with you, but you were really not a very nice person. But you've changed. And that was a miracle." All the glory goes to God our Father, and Christ His Son. Respectfully, Rachel Cory Prophecy Viewpoint

Louis was out of work and needed money. So, last Thursday night he broke into a motel office, forced the cash register open and now he had funds. As police reviewed the video tape they noted that he brought a bag from McDonalds with him. Sure enough, Louis was on tape at the near-by McDonalds purchasing a product. However, they noted that he also sat at a table filling out a job application which he deposited in the box. Sunday they arrested him.

God does not "give in" to sin; He loves us in spite of our sin. He remembers our sin no more (Is 43:25, Jer. 31:34, Hebrews 8:12, Heb 10:17). Through Christ, we are reconciled to God (Rom. 5:10, 2Cor. 5:18, Col. 1:22). Do you love God/Jesus and your fellow man (e.g., gay, drunk, doper, thief, muderer, Muslim, Catholic, gossiper)? If so, your love covers a multitude of sins. (1 Peter 4:8) Are you forgiving and non-judgmental towards others? You will be forgiven and judged as you forgive and judge others. (Matt. 6:14, 7:1-2; Luke 6:37, Col. 3:13, James 5:9). No mystery here. All of our penalties for sin here executed upon Christ at His crucifixion. Even if we do sin (and we do), He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from unrighteousness. We have an Advocate with the Father.

Rachael Cory wrote: "Grief guys! A women is subject ONLY to her own husband - not to every other male in her sphere. The headship is about the family relationship. " My husband IS my "head". But NOT every male within the church. Only my own husband. I would NEVER think of doing something that my husband was against. We are a team, and he is captain." That is spot on! When church male members come to me with a shopping-list of commands for tasks that need to get done, there is an attitude that they display. It's an expectancy in service from me of "no pay-no praise" policy. All gets going on a human ruling over another level. We women have been conditioned not to say no, right? So we live our church community existance as servants serving but often just serving not the Lord God but one who has taken the role of being the 'lord god' in our religious community. "The husband is to "lead", to care for, to provide for, to protect." Blessed indeed are we women who have partners that provide for us and protect us in the many ways we need to be protected.

That church has requirements to become a member which includes classwork, study and signing a commitment to a statement of belief. Many of the attendees are not members. They simply come and they may support. This is why that the guy who preached Sunday at every service makes a call for people to make a commitment which includes action.

We place too many requirements on our converts to have human hope of a result like that.

In order for C/A to get credit, you need to log into Amazon.com with this link: http://www.amazon.com/?&tag=adventistbooksto&camp=216797&creative=446297&linkCode=pf4&adid=1CSCRPCXND69TGTREEE5&&ref-refURL=http%3A%2F%2Fclubadventist.com%2Fforum%2F I have the link bookmarked, so it's easy to find any time I use Amazon.com..

1 Peter 2:21 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[a] leaving us[b] an example, that you should follow His steps:

The gorilla died at the Biblical Zoo in Jerusalem and the zookeeper Itzik decides that the show must go on. So he hires an actor to don a costume and act like an ape until the zoo can get another one. In the cage, the actor makes faces, swings around, and draws a huge crowd. He then crawls across a partition and atop the lion’s cage, infuriating the animal. But the actor stays in character—until he loses his grip and falls into the lion’s cage. Terrified, the actor shouts, “Help! Help me!” Too late. The lion pounces, opens 
its massive jaws, and whispers, “Be quiet you shmredrik! Do you want to get us both fired?!”

Read what I posted earlier: Gerry, you are reading too much into what I have said or simply not understanding it. I am willing and comfortable in saying I do not know what God is going to do in the end about this issue. What disturbs me greatly is that too many folk are adamant and absolutely certain of exactly what He will do, burn them all in hellfire. As if they know the mind of God! But I see it more of a situation of them really wanting to tell God what He must do. I don't know and I am not going to try to turn God's head on this. I trust Him to do the right thing. And whatever He does, I know I will understand it as a perfectly divine solution that I will accept and understand. In the meantime, we must learn to live with broken and flawed people that God is not done with yet. That requires much grace for us, call it mercy, call it tolerance, or whatever. In the end how we treat anyone matters far more than what they do about it. We are told to love one another and not judge each other. On the forgiveness and repentance issue, the binding them together by saying that we are not forgiven until we repent, or that forgiveness is conditioned or dependent on our repentance misrepresents the character of God and places us in a potentially dangerous posture of "earning" our forgiveness by our own effort of repentance. It is a human problem that we refuse to forgive someone until they apologize and often still withhold our full forgiveness until we see evidence they have changed their ways. You know how it goes when someone slips up again after we have "forgiven" them. It is easy to react that we knew they didn't really mean it and forgiveness gets harder the next time and so on until we ask Jesus, "How many times do I really have to forgive, seven times?" God has already forgiven before we ever even think to repent. My repentance doe not turn on the flow of grace. It simply opens up my own ability to receive what is already there, just waiting to be accepted.

My husband IS my "head". But NOT every male within the church. Only my own husband. I would NEVER think of doing something that my husband was against. We are a team, and he is captain. You do realize that the LORD was pronouncing curses - in Genesis 3. Right? The ground was cursed, and brought forth thorns and thistles. And mankind would die, and return to the earth. AND "he shall rule over you". THAT was a curse! The husband was NOT meant to "rule" over his wife!!! The husband is to "lead", to care for, to provide for, to protect. The husband was always meant to be "the head", just as God Our Father was always "head" of His Son - Christ. The Father did NOT "rule over" Jesus. He did not force His Son to obey. The male is physically stronger than the female. That strength - when used in protection, and provision, is wonderful. But when used to dominate, to "rule" by force - is terrible. The world has seen how the strength of the male has been used to "rule over" females. For most of history they were used as beasts of burden, and were seen only as breeders. It truly was a curse upon womankind. The culture surrounding the churches within the Roman empire is very important. Young girls would be married at 10 or 12, because men wanted to be sure that any offspring were their own. These girls would then be kept within the home, or a small area within the home - guarded to ensure their purity. They did not go out in public. Servants did that. When converts came into the churches from that culture, they would then allow their wives to attend church. They would sit up in a balcony (usually) separated from the men. What do women naturally do when they get with other women. They talk. That is how women bond with other women. But all the chatter/whispering would distract from the service. So Paul said they should be quiet. And as far as the "have authority over a man" statement - we MUST remember the culture, and remember that Paul was trying to get a church going. If women were given authority within the church - in THAT culture - it would have caused Roman men to reject the message. THAT was what Paul wished to avoid. The four daughters of Phillip "prophesied". To prophesy mean to speak for another - for God. Nothing says that they only prophesied before other women. Deborah judged Israel - including the men!! Huldah was a prophetess. Even Hilkiah the priest listened to HER. NKJ 2 Kings 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her. (2Ki 22:14 NKJ) Grief guys! A women is subject ONLY to her own husband - not to every other male in her sphere. The headship is about the family relationship. Ever read Proverbs 31. The good wife "buys a field" and then "plants a vineyard" (probably directing male servants). She sells the clothes and rugs that she manufactured - probably to at least some male buyers. In the world, a woman may be be an attorney or may be appointed a judge, or may teach biochemistry, or may get a PhD and counsel couples or individuals. When she steps across the threshold of the "church", suddenly she may only teach other women or 12 yr olds and younger, or play the piano/organ, or cook food for potluck, or provide flowers or decorate. Some 34 years ago, I would teach Bible studies in our home. My husband is the one who encouraged me, telling me that I had a gift for teaching. When I began writing studies, he is the one who wanted to put them up on a website. He is the webmaster. I just write the studies. I truly pity any woman whose husband "rules over her". My husband would wash my feet, and has - many times. Respectfully, Rachel Cory Prophecy Viewpoint

Maybe it is the way the question is phrased. Use of absolutes, i.e., "everything" suggests a pretty all-inclusive category for anything in this world. Not much left out it would seem. That would tend to exclude the possibility of altruism, etc., as even possible. It also puts all things touched by mankind as suspect and evil beyond hope. It also seems to exclude divine involvement in mankind's activities, systems and organizations or the possibility of redemption from all that is corrupted. I have a theory that the state of things of this earth are that there is nothing that is absolutely evil, without a molecule of goodness, nor anything absolutely pure and holy, without a molecule of badness. Call it a yin/yang sort of notion, but we all have good and bad in us, as does everything in this world. It is also true that seldom do you find balance between the two in anything. Somethings have far more of one than the other, but never completely excluding the opposite. I believe that evil left unchecked, destroys and that which is absolutely 100% evil would self destruct.