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This is a dangerous question. If doctrines do not matter, why keep the Sabbath?

When filled with grace and Spirit, one does not feel the burden of HAVING to honor the Sabbath; the revel in the fact that they GET to honor the Sabbath. We don't HAVE to pray to the King of the universe; we GET to pray to Him. We don't HAVE to do good works; we GET to do them. God's grace empowers us to do His will; Doing His will does not empower us to receive grace.

On the one hand, a belief in right doctrine will no more same me than will doing good works. On the other hand, my belief in correct doctrine may affect my choice as to whether or nit I want to spend eternity with God. On the third hand: In my human condition, I, and not other human has a total right understanding of any doctrine. God has much more to teach me than I can understand in my human condition. So, my salvation depends on much more than my understanding of doctrine.

Dog visits hospital everyday for two years looking for owner who died Dec 1st 2014 1:26PM At a hospital in southwestern Siberia, a loyal dog named Masha has appeared everyday for two years looking for her owner. Masha's owner passed away last year after being taken to the hospital two years ago, and ever since then, the dog has shown up everyday. Staff members at the hospital reportedly feed the dog and make sure she has somewhere warm to sleep. One family tried to adopt the dog, but Masha ran away and came back to the hospital hours later. When the owner was still alive and being treated at the hospital, Masha was his only visitor. One of the doctors from the hospital is quoted as saying: "You see her eyes, how sad they are -- it's not the usual shiny eyes for when a dog is happy. You can see this in animals in the same way as with people."

December 2014 Signs of the Times Email Newsletter The Signs of the Times newsletter is a collection of stories and quotes from past issues ofSigns and These Times. *************************** In Oberndorf, as in any small village, rumors spread quickly. In almost no time at all that 24th day of December, 1818, every citizen of the tiny Austrian town knew that there would be no music for the Christmas Eve Mass. That morning when Franz Gruber had gone to the Church of St. Nicholas to practice his pieces for the evening, he had been unable to extract from the organ any sound louder than a whisper. Upon investigation he found that the leather bellows which supplied the wind for the instrument had been nibbled by a mouse—a whole family of mice, it would seem, since the hole was such a big one. And even if it could be mended, which seemed unlikely, it would have to wait until spring when the itinerant repairman who lived in the distant Zillertal Valley would make his annual visit to Oberndorf. Shocked into speechlessness by the catastrophe, Herr Gruber had no words for the priest who at the moment entered the church. He could only point. Father Mohr nodded his head. “I know, my friend,” he said, placing his hand on the shoulder of the organist. “I was here earlier this morning; and when I tried the instrument myself, I discovered the damage that had been done.” He smiled rather shyly—he was a most unassuming young man—and drew from his soutane a sheet of paper. “I have been scribbling some words for a poem.” He held out the paper. “I thought you, since you compose so well, might be able to arrange some music for it. We could teach it to the children—to take the place of the organ, you know. We might even play a guitar accompaniment for them.” Franz took the paper and glanced at the first few words. “How ordinary!” he thought. “ ‘Silent Night, Holy Night, All is calm, all is bright.’ A child could have written it!” But when he saw the expectant look on the face of the priest, he put the paper in his coat. “I’ll see what can be done,” he said. Trudging home through the drifted snow, the organist kept muttering the words under his breath, marching their pace with his footsteps: “Silent Night, Holy Night, All is calm, all is bright.” Later by the light of a candle in his sparsely furnished room he read the poem through slowly and carefully. And suddenly a strange and wonderful thing happened. Something stirred in his breast, something that begged for release. Franz read the words again. The stirring became a fluttering, a pounding. Now he knew it for what it was—the melody for Father Mohr’s poem. He threw himself down on the bench before the spinet and placed his hands on the keys. He felt the melody flow down his arms to his fingertips. “Glories stream from heaven afar.” Over and over he played it until it was as familiar to him as the hands that were producing it. Hastily he transcribed the notes on paper; then, closing his eyes, he bowed his head on the spinet keys and wept with exhaustion. That night when the worshipers gathered outside the church, they were silent to the point of gloominess. Always before there had been organ music on Christmas Eve. And what was a mass without music they asked one another, shaking their heads. With the snow squeaking under their heavy boots and the stars spilling a million rays of light on their shawled and coated figures, they filed up the path and into the church, seating themselves on the wooden benches under the boughs of evergreen. They gasped in astonishment as twelve boys and girls, accompanied by priest and organist, entered the church and stood before the altar. In the silence that followed they heard the vibrations of steel strings and the voices of the children breaking into song: “Holy Infant, so tender and mild.” The words were an act of adoration. “Christ the Saviour is born” became a shout of triumph. And when the voices sank to a whispered lullaby, “Sleep in heavenly peace,” the listening congregation enfolded the Babe in their own arms and took Him into their hearts. Months later when the repairman came to Oberndorf to patch the damaged bellows of the organ, he asked what they had done for the Christmas Eve music. Franz took from a small cupboard at the back of the church the crumpled paper Father Mohr had left behind when he went to his new parish. “Keep it if you wish,” offered Herr Gruber. “With our organ mended, we have no further need of it.” Back again in the Zillertal Valley, the repairman sang the melody to the townspeople. Some of them, journeying into Germany, introduced it there. It crossed Europe and found its way to England, then to America. It was published in hymnbooks. It is safe to say that in all the world today there is no country where “Silent Night” has not been heard, no great cathedral or tiny chapel where it has not been sung. In spite of the song’s popularity, however, there are places where the name of Joseph Mohr and Franz Gruber have never been heard, or, if they have, they have been forgotten. But Oberndorf remembers, and on the site of the former Church of St. Nicholas it has built a chapel in memory of the two whose genius burned so brightly, and for so short a time. Every Christmas Eve the children of Oberndorf gather in front of the chapel and, to the accompaniment of Franz Gruber’s guitar (preserved to this day by his descendants), lift their voices in the song first heard in their village in 1818. “Silent night,” they sing; “holy night. . . . Christ the Saviour is born.”—By Marjorie Spiller Neagle, These Times, December 1964. Quote: “One of the most tragic things I know about human nature is that all of us tend to put off living. We dream of some magical rose garden over the horizon—instead of enjoying the roses that are blooming outside our window today.”—By Dale Carnegie,These Times. *************************** Don't miss the January 2015 issue of Signs of the Times: To order Signs, call: 1-800-765-6955 or CLICK to order online. *************************** It is said of the great artist Michelangelo that when at work he wore over his forehead, fastened on his cap, a lighted candle, so that no shadow of himself might fall upon the marble or the canvas. We need to take exceeding care that no shadow of ourselves, our personal ambitions, our self-seeking, falls upon that which we are doing for Christ.—By F. L. McKean, These Times, December 1960. Quote: “The New Jerusalem choir sang when the Babe was born, and even the shepherds understood the words of the song.”—By Charles G. Bellah, Signs of the Times, November 12, 1929. *************************** NEW from Pacific Press—Christmas In My Heart, vol. 23. This longest running anthology of Christmas stories compiled by Dr. Joe Wheeler is a wonderful treat for the family, and a fantastic gift to give a friend. CLICK to read the first chapter of this book online. Order online or from your local Adventist Book Center--1-800-765-6955. *************************** Rowland Hill used to tell a good story of a rich man and a poor man in his congregation. The rich man desired to do an act of benevolence, so he sent a sum of money to a friend to be given the poor man as he thought best. The friend just sent him five pounds and said in the note: “This is thine. Use it wisely. There is more to follow.” After a while he sent another five pounds and said, “More to follow.” Again and again he sent the money to the poor man, always with the cheering words, “More to follow.” So it is with the wonderful grace of God. There is always “more to follow.”—By Dwight L. Moody, These Times, December 1958. Quote: “Patient waiting is often the highest way of doing God’s will.”—by Jeremy Collier,These Times, September 1963. *************************** Place this in your church bulletin or newsletter: The thought of ‘witnessing’ can be daunting but Signs of the Times makes it EASY. Each monthly issue offers a colorful and interesting presentation of the full gospel message. The result is changed lives! Send a subscription today. Order from your Adventist Book Center. To order call: 1-800-765-6955 or online at: http://www.adventistbookcenter.com/signs-of-the-times-magazine-yearly-us-subscription.html *************************** Edwin Booth once gave this crisp bit of advice to a group of young actors: “The king sits in every audience; play to the king.” And the King of kings stands in the midst of all the common things of life; play to the King.—By Albert G. Butzer, These Times, July 1959. Quote: “People seldom improve when they have no model but themselves to copy after.”—By Goldsmith, Signs of the Times, April 12, 1899. *************************** Looking for a gift to give a friend, visit www.AdventistBookCenter.com *************************** Value just one soul. For one may be many. Andrew brought Simon—just one. But that one was many, for under God Simon brought 3,000 in one day. Joel Stratton, a waiter in a restaurant, brought John Gough to Christ—just one. And Gough brought many to Christ. Ezra Kimball, a Sunday School teacher, brought Moody to Christ—just one man. But that one was many, for Moody rocked two continents toward God. But why say more? Just as one digit is valuable in the multiplication table and one letter in the alphabet—far more valuable is the conviction of the value of just one soul in God’s sight.—By R. G. Lee, These Times, November 1966. Quote: “If we accustom ourselves to self-denial, we break the force of most temptations.”—By Bond, Signs of the Times, January 30, 1893. *************************** Share a copy of The Desire of Ages with a friend this holiday season. CLICK to learn more! *************************** Are you willing— To stoop down and consider the needs and desires of little children; To remember the weakness and loneliness of people who are growing old; To stop asking how much your friends love you, and to ask yourself whether you love them enough; To bear in mind the things that other people have to bear on their hearts; To trim your lamp so that it will give more light and less smoke, and to carry it in front so that your shadow will fall behind you; To make a grave for your ugly thoughts and a garden for your kindly feelings, with the gate open? Are you willing to do these things for a day? Then you are ready to keep Christmas!—By Henry van Dyke, These Times, December 1962. *************************** Compiled by Dale Galusha. Please pass this newsletter on to others.

One must be born again.

Justification, Atonement, Sanctification, Glorification= the full package. Justification is by faith in the saving act of Jesus as our Christ. No Merits on our part. Atonement is the sacrifical offer of our blessed God in Christ. No Merits on our part. Sanctification is total commitment to eradicate any vestage of sinful acts within us or what sinful acts we commit. Sanctification is the act of making holy. We come up out of baptism waters not as holy as wished. Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit within us for the sake of being made anew into the image of God. Our sanctification works with our obedience level. The more we remain rebellious in a carnal way the less we grow in the Grace of God for the purpose of being sanctified holy unto Him. Our eternal salvation has to do with being saved in by Faith in Him. But part of the package is the continuum of growing in Grace as long as we are alive on this earth and becoming more in the image of Christ in our character. We all groan and moan for the moment of Glorification. All of the four rudimental elements in the first sentence here are intertwined and affects the whole of one's salvation. None of the four are based on human merits. All is of Grace from God and still nonetheless require human free will co-operation.

I do believe that another Temple (to Yahweh) will be built on the Mount at Jerusalem BEFORE the return of Christ in glory. And yes - I believe that animal sacrifices will be restored at that Temple. Jews and other Israelites will offer animal sacrifices. Hebrew Roots and Messianic believers in Yeshua Messiah will also go up there to offer sacrifice. They believe that NOTHING has been changed by the LORD concerning His Sinai Covenant with Israel. I do not agree with them. I read the prophecies, and it appears to me that the the "Son of Perdition" must sit as God in the temple of God. Where else but on the Mount? 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” NOTE: The only person who was allowed to sit in the Temple courtyard was the anointed King - from the line of David. This alone should tell you who the “son of perdition” is pretending to be. Yes - Yeshua Messiah - the anointed King of Israel. He will make fire come down from heaven (Rev. 13:13). This was the sign of the LORD’s presence for ancient Israel (Lev. 9:24, Num. 16:35, I Ki. 18:38, 2Chron 7:1). The “fire” consumed the sacrifice on the alter in the court of the Temple. This scenario requires a Temple, and the restoration of animal sacrifices. PROPHECY POINTS TO ANOTHER TEMPLE Many of the prophets spoke of a future Temple - The House of the LORD. Ezekiel 37:15-27 The LORD will gather the children of Israel. (There's your regathering.) Judah and Israel will be joined into one kingdom - never to be separated again, with one King - from the line of David (v.24). The Lord will then make an everlasting covenant of peace with those He has gathered (v.26). “My tabernacle also shall be with them; . . . The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, WHEN My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” Here we see Israel returned, and His Sanctuary restored in the midst of “the nations,” who KNOW (who see - because of this) that the LORD has indeed chosen Israel. NOTE: In a vision, Ezekiel saw, the “whole house of Israel” resurrected, gathered and returned to “the land” (Ezekiel 37:11). Then the prophet was shown “a city,” and “a temple.” The Temple shown to Ezekiel has never been built. Ezekiel’s Temple measures 210 feet high. The technology for such high rise building did not exist in the day’s of the prophet. Yet God’s word will be fulfilled (Isa. 55:11). According to Ezekiel, “the glory of the LORD departed from” the Temple built by Solomon (Ezek. 10:18), and will not return until the future Temple (shown to Ezekiel) is dedicated (Ezek. 43:1-7). Temples: 1. Wilderness Tabernacle 2. Built by Solomon 3. Return Temple restored by Ezra/Nehemia, later enhanced by Herod the Great, Destroyed by Titus 4. We are a Temple (2Cor 6:16) 5. Another Temple before the Glorious Return of Messiah - tribulation Temple - where Antichrist will sit GLORIOUS RETURN 6. Ezekiel's Temple (During the 1000 year reign. A place where the Gentiles will come to learn of Yahweh) 7. No Temple in the New Jerusalem Most SDA commentaries say that Ezekiel's Temple is the one that WOULD HAVE been built IF Israel had truly repented and followed the LORD. I don't see that. Ezekiel's Temple is built AFTER a resurrection and gathering of the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel. So it has to be AFTER the Second Coming. Isaiah 2:1-4 “And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains [above all kingdoms], and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many peoples shall go and say, ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:’ for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” (ASV) (Also see Micah 4:1-2.) NOTE: The involvement of “many peoples” is obvious. “All nations” flow up to Jehovah’s house. “He will judge between the nations.” This is the millennial Kingdom of Messiah on earth. The question I have raised, concerns the timing of Messiah’s reign on earth. Will He reign during the 7th millennium, or the 8th millennium? I believe Messiah will reign on the earth at the 8th millennium. Here's one that most SDAs don't understand. Early Writings pg 18-20 : She is describing her "First Vision" After describing the beauties of the place, and little children (one wonder's why they are still children on the earth AFTER 1000 years in heaven??) and martyrs with red borders on their robes, "Mount Zion was just before us, and on the mount was a glorious temple, and about it were seven other mountains, on which grew roses and ilies. ... There were all kinds of trees around the temple to beautify the place: ... And as we were about to enter the holy temple, Jesus raised His lovely voice and said, 'Only the 144,000 enter this place', and we shouted 'Alleluia.' This temple was supported by seven pillars, all of transparent gold, set with pearls most glorious. ... (In this Temple) "I saw there tables of stone in which the names of the 144,000 were engraved in letters of gold. (Then they went on to "the City".) So - what Temple is this?? It is outside of the Holy City New Jerusalem. But it is on "the Mount". Of course the Holy City covers 345 miles on each side, and covers the entire land promised to Abraham, so it's difficult to see how this Temple for the 144,000 could be "outside" of the Holy City and still be on the Mount. Unless of course, this Temple will stand during a different time period - like BEFORE - the Holy City comes down. The 144,000 (whom I believe will be the redeemed from this age) will serve as priests for "the nations" who will be raised as "the rest of the dead". They (the nations) will be invited to come up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles (Zechariah Cpt 14). There is a study at my website titled "Another Temple". Blessings Rachel Cory Prophecy Viewpoint

Sojouner: The fundamental issue here relates to the application of the 4th Commandment, as well as other Biblical scriptures. In this regard, there are two (2) answers to this question: 1) One group believes that the Biblical Sabbath in not determined by the name of the day, as in the time of Christ, in Israel, no days were named Saturday and Sunday, This group believes that the Biblical Sabbath is every 7th day, regardless of the name of that day. In addition, this group believes that the 7-day cycle was correct at the time of Christ and that this 7-day cycle can be traced back to the time of Christ. IOW, we can know with certainty a 7-day cycle that can be traced back to the time of Christ. Regardless of how that 7th day is named in our language, that day is the Biblical Sabbath that should be kept today. This group believes that is certain Pacific Islands that 7th day is currently named Sunday and therefore, Sunday is the day that should be kept regardless of what other people do. 2) There is a 2nd group of people who believes that the Biblical Sabbath is the day before the day that Christ rose from the dead--which of course is true. They are not generally concerned with tracing the actual day back to the time of Christ. Rather they look to the end-time Biblical statements that they believe talk about the establishment of a counterfeit Sabbath based upon the day that Christ is said to rise from the dead, which is named Sunday in the English language. To determine which d ay should be kept as the Biblical Sabbath, this group simply looks to see what day is kept by the rest of the Christian world as the day that Christ rose from the dead. Once they have established that day, which is typically named Sunday, they keep the preceding day, which is typically named Saturday in the English language. Both groups of people are sincere. Both groups of people wish to honor the true Biblical Sabbath. But, they differ in the application. One group believes that the Biblical Sabbath is based upon a 7-day cycle and the other group believes that it is the day prior to the day that other Christians keep; NOTES: 1) A fundamental issue here is related to the International Date Line (IDL) and recent changes that were made in it which affected Samoa. 2) This issue also affects Tonga. The most recent changes in the IDL affected Samoa and this is where the most intense discussion occurs. The IDL changes that affected Tonga occurred some years earlier and there is little discussion about Tonga on this issue. 3) As the changes to the IDL are complex and another issue, I am not discussing that aspect here. Regardless of that, the issue is as I have stated it here in basic terms. 4) The article in the NZH, that you cited in your post, is in error when it says that the SDA Church in Samoa is keeping Sunday as the Sabbath in honor of the day that Christ rose from the dead. It is keeping is due to the 7-day weekly cycle that I have mentioned here.

I'm quite skeptical of any theory that holds a physical Jewish nation above the rest of the world in the years running up to Christ's return. Most of these theories have copious amounts of misapplication of Scriptures contained within. These are theories steeped in a deep misunderstandings of what it means to be "chosen of God", as well as the thrust of God's plan for the salvation of mankind. I view them this way Genesis 3:15 - the original Promise of a Redeemer was made to all of the human race in the persons of Adam and Eve - long before there was ever a Jew. It comes to all human beings today, right alongside that legacy of sin we inherited from Adam. Genesis 12:3 - God declares to Abram (later to be Abraham) that in him ALL the families of the earth will be blessed - centuries before the Jews. This is God's declaring that Genesis 3:15 would come through a descendant of Abram/Abraham. At the time of 12:3, it didn't HAVE to be the Jews - all of Abram's children were yet future, and the Son of the Promise (Isaac) was not yet pronounced (this would not be until Genesis 15) Yet the earthly Jewish nation - set up with the Sanctuary to teach the pre-Cross Gospel of God's grace and forgiveness of sins through the coming Redeemer, was established at the very crossroads of the world for the express purpose of exporting this Gospel to the rest of the world. Instead, they failed miserably - not once, but twice. The Jewish nation never learned that being chosen meant to serve the rest of the world by keeping the Gospel ever before it. They rather wanted to be exalted kings in the earth, to be served by the lesser nations they regarded as outside the Promise of God. They wanted the kingship without having to go through the sacrifice required in God's kingdom to get there (cf, Christ's third temptation in Matthew 4). When in Romans 2:25-29 Paul laid out who God really considers Israel to be, this was not a new teaching. God designed Israel so that as the pre-Cross Gospel progressed in its work, non-natives would be assimilated into the nation of Israel - all the way up to tribes and nations. Paul then states later that now physical Jews have to be grafted into the True Vine, just like the Gentiles have to be; the post-Cross places Gentile and Jew on the same standing as far as needing to be grafted into the Vine. There is but One King of Israel now, and He is still serving before Father in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest right now. He awaits patiently to be coronated before all the redeemed. He regards His capital to be New Jerusalem - currently in heaven, not on earth. I'm certain that there exists a role for the Jews to play in the last events - it is, IMHO, simply not going to be as a regathered nation championing Judaism. I am convinced they do have a role, else God would never have preserved them through the past ~2000 years. Humanly speaking, the Jews should have been assimilated into the rest of the world centuries ago, just as every people/nation is when dispossessed of their homeland with no hope of being re-established (Rome's dealing with the earthly Jews from AD 150 and beyond). I do believe the next re-gathering of Israel will be to New Jerusalem, from "all corners of the world". Every single member of the Redeemed Host absolutely must enter through one of 12 gates, each bearing the name of a Jewish tribe. "Israel" is to encompass all who have faith in God's promise in Genesis 3:15 (and every subsequent unfolding of that promise through the remainder of Scripture), pre- and post-Cross believers alike, just as the physical nation of Israel was supposed to have assimilated all people of true faith into it. The imperfect type failed; the perfect anti-type succeeds. Blessings,

I will have a go at your specific questions though, 1, Does saying so count? - Yes, 2a, Church Attendance, - Most memberships in community and other groups generally have an expectation of at least quarterly attendance to maintain membership. Common sense largely applies here. 2b, Tithe, - My understanding is that its "reccomended" not compulsory, so no on that one. 3, Agreeing with every word of the "fundmentals". I suspect it depends on how "fundamental" a person might be expected to be. I would come down on the side of your own sense of judgement, in my own case I was formerly a member of the Salvation Army and signed a doctrinal statement to be a member, yet I found that I no longer believed in eteral hell fire which put me at odds with the document that I had signed. I did not resign from it straight away, but over time I realized that I was in conflict over that one doctrine. It so happened that I moved over to the SDA. Had I not done that I am not sure what I would have done to be perfectly honest. I suspect I would have eventually acted on it although it would have been a lot harder to leave just on that one point. 4, Caffeine, Occurs naturally in Green Tea and other things proven good for you. No problem there. 5a, Vegetarian - No, Like Tithing the SDA has no requirement of anyone to be a Vegetarian. 5b, Unclean Meats - I guess you either agree or you do not. still, specifics may vary from person to person though such as eating blood in the meat or being kosher or so forth. I would be a little surprised if someone was a keen pork eater, but would not be surprised if someone took the view that they would eat whatever they are served in someone elses home as opposed to what they might buy for themselves for example. Whilst many will disagree, some suggest that Paul makes such a dispensation in the NT re meat offered to idols and the term "eat whatever" is used in a case like that. 6, Wedding Rings - Rings are scriptural as is Jewelery, so no problems there. Common sense suggests this might be a problem in any church group if it becomes a wealth addiction or issue with materialism. 7, Investigative Judgement - You do have a point there. In that I would suggest this doctrine has evolved over time and now has conflicting material available around about what it actually is. The issue is that according to the SDA when they spoke with Walter Martin on the subject, there is no record of wrongs kept in the heavenly sanctuary for believers, its all been dealt with at the cross, all past, present and future sins for the believers. Yet I am not sure that many older SDA's would agree with that only because I have not met enough of them, nor asked to find out. This then suggests to me that any judgement taking place has to be on behalf of people that are not born again but potentially Godly people that have responded to God without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I am not keen on enshrining something like that into doctrine however because its more based on supposition at that point than anything else.

I think that if you align yourself more with the SDA doctrine and you yourself call yourself SDA then that is what you are. Just like if you align yourself up with Baptist teachings and you yourself call yourself Baptist, then who am I to contradict you? However, when we label someone else as "pure" SDA then maybe we mean they are fanatics and no one wants to be labeled as a fanatic. But I think what we are really saying is because "they" are _______(blank) pick your favorite--vegetarian, no caffeine-drinking-chocolate-eating-jewelry-wearing-smoking-drinking-SDA and "we" are still working on something and "they" seem to have the victory and "we" do not; therefore, "they" must be fanatics. Just my thoughts for right now.

I am not sure that there is neccesaraly anything hardline about it, I would suggest that a Seventh-day Adventist is simply someone who has either been baptised into the SDA or has been accepted as a member of the SDA by confession of faith.